Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 Full story: CNN 32,004

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#19159 Dec 1, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text> It has nothing to do with deflecting. It has to do with the fact that mere hours after this tragedy you are on a forum playing the blame game. You don't know why this kid commited suicide or if he was even gay. Because kids called him that, it means he was? Only religious people bully others? If you really care about this child get all tge facts, then state your case. Don't use his suicide to further your agenda.
Criticize me til the cows come home, sister Molly. Doesn't change the facts...the kid was bullied for being gay to the point of killing himself. Just like your church does....keep it in the closet or get the hell out. That's what your church tells its gay members. And with attitudes like that, it gives bullies free liscense to torment.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#19160 Dec 1, 2012
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Criticize me til the cows come home, sister Molly. Doesn't change the facts...the kid was bullied for being gay to the point of killing himself. Just like your church does....keep it in the closet or get the hell out. That's what your church tells its gay members. And with attitudes like that, it gives bullies free liscense to torment.
Ok Sister Nomo. If he killed himself because he was gay and bullied by the religious folks, then where is a link that states that? A newspaper article? Anything supporting what you say?? Now, if you had a character like that of Danas, I wouldn't bother asking. I would likely take you at your word. However you have proven time and time again that one of your favorite past times is twisting what others say to fit your agenda.
You want justice for this kid? You want to make a point that it is the fault of Mormonism that this child committed suicide?? Then offer up some proof, not just for me, but for those you are trying to turn against religion.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19161 Dec 1, 2012
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you teach your kids those bigoted views of yours? Or do you keep them to yourself? Because if you teach your kids to think themselves above everyone else the way you do, if you teach them to see gay people with those homophobic ignorant eyes, you are not only part of the problem, you are raising your kids to continue your bigotry.
What did Jesus say about gay people???
I'll continue to teach my kids to have the self-esteem necessary so that if they are bullied for any reason, they will sock the bully in the jaw if necessary and simply go about their business. It is the bully who has the mental illness.

I will also continue to teach them to recognize adult bullies such as yourself, throughout life, and treat THEM accordingly as well.

Of course, that's assuming you are an adult...it's very possible that I am assuming too much.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19162 Dec 1, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You wouldn't be surprised if you actually listen to the reasons why. You don't want to hear it. You say you love debate, but fear the discussion of the issues. Quoting platitudes isn't debating. You can't express why you think the LDS church is true besides saying you feel like it is. That isn't debating. It also isn't fact. Add to it the way you live your life is a testimony that the church isn't true creates a credibility problem for you. You are a only a armchair cheerleader for a church that in fact isn't making a bit difference in your life.
<quoted text>
Or, like the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's, it will force the bigots to go into hiding more and more just like the racists do today. There are still many racist people in the U.S., but for the most part they have to bite their tongues and hide their true feelings because the majority of people won't tolerant it anymore. If you are openly racist today, you will never have a good paying job or friends of any real value. Kids are more and more growing up accepting homosexuals. In the last election for the first time, the people voted in by the majority the right for gays to be able to get married. The tides are turning against you and your views. And while you may never change your views, like the dinosaurs, your kind will become extincted, or at best, in the minority. The change is in the wind, and even your church will change to go with it, like it has on every social issue that has come up. There were members who thought that black people would have never held the priesthood in the LDS church also, my dad certainly was one of them.
To be continued...
I don't fear anything or anybody. My time is my own. I'm here on Topix entirely for my own entertainment, and nothing more.

That being the case, if you don't like my style of debate, or the things I say, you are more than welcome to ignore them. I've got plenty of folks riled up over on the strictly political forums.

There is nothing racist or homophobic in the LDS Church. Nor does the Church condone racism or homophopia. That is simple fact. The Lord's laws on the subject are what they are. You don't agree, that is your choice.

You are also at odds with your own church on the issue. The Salvation Army supported California's anti-gay marriage initiative, you simply ignore it when brought up. The Salvation Army has a stated doctrine that homosexuality is contrary to Biblical principle. You also ignore that, at your convenience. You expect God to change for you, putting yourself above him. You have every right to do that, of course. Everyone has their free-agency.

You do so at your own spiritual peril..but again, it's your decision. The Lord's church will be there for you when you decide to come back.

Just know that the Lord still loves you, despite your arrogance.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#19163 Dec 1, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>Ok Sister Nomo. If he killed himself because he was gay and bullied by the religious folks, then where is a link that states that? A newspaper article? Anything supporting what you say?? Now, if you had a character like that of Danas, I wouldn't bother asking. I would likely take you at your word. However you have proven time and time again that one of your favorite past times is twisting what others say to fit your agenda.
You want justice for this kid? You want to make a point that it is the fault of Mormonism that this child committed suicide?? Then offer up some proof, not just for me, but for those you are trying to turn against religion.
Google is your friend, helpless..His name is David Q Phan. Here's one of the dozens out there..I didn't check this one but read the comments on any of these articles. Salt lake tribune, ABC 4, KUTV, KSL, Huffington post, the granite school district's fb page.. u get the picture, right? I doubt reading any of them will help u remove the blinders u willingly wear...

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/...

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#19164 Dec 1, 2012
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Google is your friend, helpless..His name is David Q Phan. Here's one of the dozens out there..I didn't check this one but read the comments on any of these articles. Salt lake tribune, ABC 4, KUTV, KSL, Huffington post, the granite school district's fb page.. u get the picture, right? I doubt reading any of them will help u remove the blinders u willingly wear...
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/...
Nothing in that article said anything about him being gay. Nothing at all. While I'm well aware of how to use google, when making accusations it is YOUR responsibility to provide proof. Especially when you aren't stating opinion, but are stating opinion as fact.
David Limbaugh

Atlanta, GA

#19165 Dec 1, 2012
All you need is the good book. Do good, good things will happen to and for you. http:wheresmybailout.weebly.co m

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19166 Dec 1, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't fear anything or anybody. My time is my own. I'm here on Topix entirely for my own entertainment, and nothing more.
Good, be entertained, nothing wrong with that. But there isn't any law saying you can't explain your statements. It's very entertaining to prove a person wrong by giving facts. I know, I do it all the time. But your statement only really tells us you are unable to do so. That's OK also, but it doesn't help your faith.
That being the case, if you don't like my style of debate, or the things I say, you are more than welcome to ignore them. I've got plenty of folks riled up over on the strictly political forums.
Then why do you bother to come here at all? If you wanted to stick strictly to political issues, you can do so without being here at all. Don't you want to be a good representative of your faith?
There is nothing racist or homophobic in the LDS Church. Nor does the Church condone racism or homophopia. That is simple fact. The Lord's laws on the subject are what they are. You don't agree, that is your choice.
No, teaching that dark skin is a curse from God is racist, and that is a simple fact. A book you called "divine", the KJV of the Bible teaches us:
Acts 10:28(KJV)

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Did you see that? "I should not call any man common or unclean." Yet what did Mormonism teach and still teach, even today in the Book of Mormon? That dark skin is a curse from God. This is as racist as Malcom X calling every white person "white devils." That is a fact. I'm just wanting you to try to be honest about it. It is your teaching. Why don't you own it? If any black minister taught about white people what the leaders of the Mormon church taught about black people, you would be crying "racism". In fact I think I've heard you make that claim about Rev. Wright. Are you incapable of putting yourself in another mans shoes? Has Mormonism destroyed your soul to the degree that you are unable to see anyone's view but your own? Have you lost all capability of empathy? Sad if that is true.
You are also at odds with your own church on the issue. The Salvation Army supported California's anti-gay marriage initiative, you simply ignore it when brought up. The Salvation Army has a stated doctrine that homosexuality is contrary to Biblical principle. You also ignore that, at your convenience.
Again you want to make this a debate about church's. My salvation doesn't come from my membership in the Army. It comes with my relationship with Jesus Christ and that I have put my faith in his promise. The Army doesn't have prophets, or apostles. They don't make claims of being "the only true church." Mormonism does, and because it does, the burden of proof lays with the church. It is an invitation to be examine and to be judged worthy of such a claim. It has failed miserably. It has failed in a examination and comparison of scripture, it has failed in it's teachings, it has failed in the very actions and words of it's leaders. The more I examine the LDS church, the more I've become convinced of it. I want the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the LDS church is not it. It hard to see any working of the and of the Lord in it's history.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19167 Dec 1, 2012
You expect God to change for you, putting yourself above him. You have every right to do that, of course. Everyone has their free-agency.
I expect God to keep his word, his promise of being merciful and just. Making a person gay, and then denying that person one of his/hers most basic needs, the need to love and be loved, is neither merciful or just. It is only fair to those who are ignorant on the subject. God wants us to worship him. He has to be worthy to be worshiped. What Mormonism, and many other churches are teaching is a God that isn't worthy to be worshiped. Just like in the days when churches justified slavery.
You do so at your own spiritual peril..but again, it's your decision.
No, I do so because that is what Jesus Christ wants us to do, love one another. "Love covers a multitude of sin." (1 Peter 4) There isn't one law against love in the Bible.
The Lord's church will be there for you when you decide to come back.
That will never be. Especially since you can't give me and honest reason why I should.
Just know that the Lord still loves you, despite your arrogance.
As he does you, in yours.

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19168 Dec 1, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
What do Mormons believe about African-Americans?
For nearly 150 years, the Mormon Church had taught that ALL blacks were cursed..... Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been ...
Feb 1, 2012 ... "Mormons, they're prejudiced against blacks," Perkins recalls being told.... "Didn't you think,'What am I doing part of an organization that is ...
God gave us a way to know His words from false prophets inspired by Satan, yet people deliberately reject the truth and embrace Satan's liars.
It's pathetic that anybody would still be in the Mormon Church.
They're people who are so weak and ignorant that they'll accept that God can't get His story straight, that He makes so many mistakes that HUMANS have to keep correcting Him, and keep covering up His mistakes.
Those people have the right to go straight to hell, and they deserve NO sympathy because they're dragging millions of innocent children with them.
(next post)

“Protest / support the marchers”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19169 Dec 1, 2012
Godless ministers in the end times
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...
Christian
Mormonism - posts:
188, 409, 414-9, 427-8, 435-8, 441-2, 457-8, 489, 496, 606-9, 633-4, 645-7, 655-7, 664-670, 674-684, 772-3, 778, 792-3,

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19170 Dec 2, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Good, be entertained, nothing wrong with that. But there isn't any law saying you can't explain your statements. It's very entertaining to prove a person wrong by giving facts. I know, I do it all the time. But your statement only really tells us you are unable to do so. That's OK also, but it doesn't help your faith.
<quoted text>
Then why do you bother to come here at all? If you wanted to stick strictly to political issues, you can do so without being here at all. Don't you want to be a good representative of your faith?
<quoted text>
No, teaching that dark skin is a curse from God is racist, and that is a simple fact. A book you called "divine", the KJV of the Bible teaches us:
Acts 10:28(KJV)
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Did you see that? "I should not call any man common or unclean." Yet what did Mormonism teach and still teach, even today in the Book of Mormon? That dark skin is a curse from God. This is as racist as Malcom X calling every white person "white devils." That is a fact. I'm just wanting you to try to be honest about it. It is your teaching. Why don't you own it? If any black minister taught about white people what the leaders of the Mormon church taught about black people, you would be crying "racism". In fact I think I've heard you make that claim about Rev. Wright. Are you incapable of putting yourself in another mans shoes? Has Mormonism destroyed your soul to the degree that you are unable to see anyone's view but your own? Have you lost all capability of empathy? Sad if that is true.
<quoted text>
Again you want to make this a debate about church's. My salvation doesn't come from my membership in the Army. It comes with my relationship with Jesus Christ and that I have put my faith in his promise. The Army doesn't have prophets, or apostles. They don't make claims of being "the only true church." Mormonism does, and because it does, the burden of proof lays with the church. It is an invitation to be examine and to be judged worthy of such a claim. It has failed miserably. It has failed in a examination and comparison of scripture, it has failed in it's teachings, it has failed in the very actions and words of it's leaders. The more I examine the LDS church, the more I've become convinced of it. I want the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the LDS church is not it. It hard to see any working of the and of the Lord in it's history.
To be continued...
If anyone wishes to understand my faith, there are myriad sources of positive information concerning the church. Serious seekers know where too look. Thinking that anything serious can come from an internet discussion forum where the vast majority of people don't even use their own name, and likely lie about themselves as a rule, is ridiculous.

I also have repeatedly told you why I come here, yet you seem unable to understand..I come here for entertainment value. I'm not here to win friends or influence people, I'm here to entertain myself. It's kind of akin to live video gaming, where actual human interaction directs the path of the game. One Topix, the conversation often leads to absurdity, and I relish that absurdity.

As for being a good representative for my faith..in a forum full of people who loath the LDS church? Puhlease. I'm here to rattle cages, nothing more. Taking seriously the ranting of anti-Mormons, most of whom hide behind the veil of anonymity, is ridiculous. I don't even know that you use your real name, and you don't know that I use mine.

continued...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19171 Dec 2, 2012
As for your cries of "racism", you are like the leftists who cry racism every time someone disagrees with Barack Obama on political issues. It is misdirection, nothing more. Your church, the Salvation Army, still has a stated doctrine against homosexuality and gay marriage, yet you, who vocally supports gay marriage, still remain a member of a church considered "anti-gay" by the gay community. You still work for, and spread the message of, a church that is "anti-gay", yet you refuse to address your hypocrisy. Every time I bring it up, you misdirect with the term "racism" towards the Lord's church. It's an age old ruse, but it's not effective. The term "racism" has been overused to the point that the only people who think it's still effective are those who bandy it about.

My church has failed? Not at all. My church grows and prospers worldwide. New members come to the fold everyday because of my church's message of love and salvation. That is the fact. Angry and bitter ex-Mormons may have loud mouths, but their actual numbers are small compared to those who find solace in God's teachings. In short, the rancor of ex-Mormons has no effect among believers, but if you all want to get together and continue to loudly convince each other you are correct, have at it. It's your right.
Wisdom

Russellville, KY

#19172 Dec 2, 2012
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19173 Dec 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
If anyone wishes to understand my faith, there are myriad sources of positive information concerning the church. Serious seekers know where too look.
But I'm not trying to understand Mormonism. I've come to understand years ago. I trying to understand it's appeal to you, personally. There may be as many reasons for someone to become LDS as there are LDS members. The reason they stay can also be as many.

Thinking that anything serious can come from an internet discussion forum where the vast majority of people don't even use their own name, and likely lie about themselves as a rule, is ridiculous.
But that isn't true about us, is it? We are the exception to the rule. We both are here representing ourselves, using our real names. We can have a serious discussion if we tried. There is nothing to prevent that. All you have to do is want to. There are no rules against it.
I also have repeatedly told you why I come here, yet you seem unable to understand..I come here for entertainment value. I'm not here to win friends or influence people, I'm here to entertain myself. It's kind of akin to live video gaming, where actual human interaction directs the path of the game. One Topix, the conversation often leads to absurdity, and I relish that absurdity.
Even video games can be educational, and have a multipurpose. Learning and having fun can happen at the same time. In fact, some of the most fun I've ever had was while learning. One of the best days of my life was as a teen when I got to spend a whole going through the Smithsonian in Washington, DC. But I learned much while doing. One is not exclusive of the other. Do you fear knowledge? Are you afraid you might accidentally learn something? Fear not!
As for being a good representative for my faith..in a forum full of people who loath the LDS church? Puhlease. I'm here to rattle cages, nothing more. Taking seriously the ranting of anti-Mormons, most of whom hide behind the veil of anonymity, is ridiculous. I don't even know that you use your real name, and you don't know that I use mine.
continued...
I don't even care if you use your real name. As for me, just do a search on my name for Merced, CA and you will find me. I hide noting. And yes, according your church, you are suppose to be a good representative of it everywhere you go. "Every member a missionary." Have you ever heard of that? Part of being a good missionary is being a good representative.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19174 Dec 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
As for your cries of "racism", you are like the leftists who cry racism every time someone disagrees with Barack Obama on political issues. It is misdirection, nothing more.
Not true, the racism of the LDS church is well documented. The Book of Mormon still teaches it. The LDS may have changed their policy about allowing blacks to hold the priesthood and attending the temple, but they still haven't rejected the teachings that created the policy in the first place. That is fact.It' your teachings, own it, or feel free to prove me wrong.
Your church, the Salvation Army, still has a stated doctrine against homosexuality and gay marriage, yet you, who vocally supports gay marriage, still remain a member of a church considered "anti-gay" by the gay community. You still work for, and spread the message of, a church that is "anti-gay", yet you refuse to address your hypocrisy. Every time I bring it up, you misdirect with the term "racism" towards the Lord's church. It's an age old ruse, but it's not effective. The term "racism" has been overused to the point that the only people who think it's still effective are those who bandy it about.
The doctrine against homosexuality in the Army isn't racism, it's bigotry. When you discriminate against homosexuals, you are doing so against homosexuals of all races. What Mormonism taught against was race based, and bigotry both. The message I spread isn't "join my church and be saved" it's "put your faith in the blood of Jesus Christ and be saved". I don't care if a person joins my church or not. I'm a missionary for the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Salvation Army. That and the fact I'm using the Army to help the poor and homeless is not hypocrisy, it's doing what Jesus commanded us to do. Despite the Army's policy on homosexuals, they will not refuse to help feed or clothe someone because they are homosexual.
My church has failed? Not at all. My church grows and prospers worldwide. New members come to the fold everyday because of my church's message of love and salvation. That is the fact.
The most growth in the LDS church is by birth, not conversion. That is also a fact. And of those who do convert the retention rate is very low. That is also the truth. Any member can prove this for themselves by looking at the list of membership and comparing it to the actual number of people who attend on a regular bases. I know for a fact in my home ward it was 1 in 5 or 6. I have no doubt the coming of the internet has only made that worst.
Angry and bitter ex-Mormons may have loud mouths, but their actual numbers are small compared to those who find solace in God's teachings. In short, the rancor of ex-Mormons has no effect among believers, but if you all want to get together and continue to loudly convince each other you are correct, have at it. It's your right.
And no doubt that pisses you off. But I do know for a fact that our efforts do have effect because I was there for the many who has left because of my efforts and perseverance. Mormons are coming to the Lord, and out of the LDS church.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19175 Dec 2, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true, the racism of the LDS church is well documented. The Book of Mormon still teaches it. The LDS may have changed their policy about allowing blacks to hold the priesthood and attending the temple, but they still haven't rejected the teachings that created the policy in the first place. That is fact.It' your teachings, own it, or feel free to prove me wrong.
<quoted text>
The doctrine against homosexuality in the Army isn't racism, it's bigotry. When you discriminate against homosexuals, you are doing so against homosexuals of all races. What Mormonism taught against was race based, and bigotry both. The message I spread isn't "join my church and be saved" it's "put your faith in the blood of Jesus Christ and be saved". I don't care if a person joins my church or not. I'm a missionary for the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Salvation Army. That and the fact I'm using the Army to help the poor and homeless is not hypocrisy, it's doing what Jesus commanded us to do. Despite the Army's policy on homosexuals, they will not refuse to help feed or clothe someone because they are homosexual.
<quoted text>
The most growth in the LDS church is by birth, not conversion. That is also a fact. And of those who do convert the retention rate is very low. That is also the truth. Any member can prove this for themselves by looking at the list of membership and comparing it to the actual number of people who attend on a regular bases. I know for a fact in my home ward it was 1 in 5 or 6. I have no doubt the coming of the internet has only made that worst.
<quoted text>
And no doubt that pisses you off. But I do know for a fact that our efforts do have effect because I was there for the many who has left because of my efforts and perseverance. Mormons are coming to the Lord, and out of the LDS church.
Sorry, but a lot of folks think the Holy Bible is racist. If one wants to focus upon supposed racism in the Book of Mormon, then they must also focus upon racism in the Holy Bible.

I content there is no racism in the word of God, thus there is no racism in either book of scripture.

Both your church, and my church, have an identical biblical position on homosexuality, that it is sin. I support the biblical view. It is you who are at odds with God's word on the issue.

I'm not concerned with the amount of growth in the LDS Church. It IS growing by both conversion and by birth, and that is ok by me. God teaches that while his plan is available to all, not all will accept.

And no, the folks who leave the church, for whatever reason, don't "piss me off". Everyone has free agency. If folks wish to leave the church, for whatever reason, whether it be your deception, or any other reason, that's the breaks. Members can do their best to fellowship members who are wavering, but the final decision rests with the individual involved. It's a shame some feel the hatred and bitterness, as you do, but it's really not my problem.

As for "every member a missionary", I see that sign in front of the local Church of the Nazarene too. We all do what we can, but I'm just never going to take an internet forum all that seriously. Here, I represent only myself, in all my insane glory!!!
Wisdom

Russellville, KY

#19177 Dec 3, 2012
Mormon church is no longer racist. When the Federal Government was going to stop funds for BYU they had their God come out to say the curse on blacks was lifted.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19178 Dec 3, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but a lot of folks think the Holy Bible is racist. If one wants to focus upon supposed racism in the Book of Mormon, then they must also focus upon racism in the Holy Bible.
That's OK. If someone tells me the Bible is racist, I ask them why. I talk about their concerns, their reasons, try to show where they are wrong. I can show where the Book of Mormon is still racist today. Give you verse and chapter. But you fear the discussion.
I content there is no racism in the word of God, thus there is no racism in either book of scripture.
If you content that, why can't you defend what you are contenting?
Both your church, and my church, have an identical biblical position on homosexuality, that it is sin. I support the biblical view. It is you who are at odds with God's word on the issue.
Love and forgiveness is never at odds with the word of God. See how Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. Compare that to how the LDS church would have treated the same woman today, and you can see how out of harmony the LDS church is with the message of Jesus Christ.
I'm not concerned with the amount of growth in the LDS Church. It IS growing by both conversion and by birth, and that is ok by me. God teaches that while his plan is available to all, not all will accept.
Then you would be the first Mormon I have ever met who wasn't concerned about the growth of the church. You are certainly out of harmony with your leaders on that aspect as well, that is for certain. Because they certainly care, a lot. That is what is behind the recent lowering of the age a member can go on a mission.
And no, the folks who leave the church, for whatever reason, don't "piss me off". Everyone has free agency. If folks wish to leave the church, for whatever reason, whether it be your deception, or any other reason, that's the breaks. Members can do their best to fellowship members who are wavering, but the final decision rests with the individual involved. It's a shame some feel the hatred and bitterness, as you do, but it's really not my problem.
That seems how you take all positions concerning your faith. It's the one to have if you wish to avoid all conversation. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
As for "every member a missionary", I see that sign in front of the local Church of the Nazarene too.
But, you're not a Nazarene. Their leaders, and what they say have no authority to you.

We all do what we can, but I'm just never going to take an internet forum all that seriously. Here, I represent only myself, in all my insane glory!!!
But you seem afraid to do even that. When it comes to your faith, that is.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19180 Dec 4, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
That's OK. If someone tells me the Bible is racist, I ask them why. I talk about their concerns, their reasons, try to show where they are wrong. I can show where the Book of Mormon is still racist today. Give you verse and chapter. But you fear the discussion.
Love and forgiveness is never at odds with the word of God. See how Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. Compare that to how the LDS church would have treated the same woman today, and you can see how out of harmony the LDS church is with the message of Jesus Christ.
Then you would be the first Mormon I have ever met who wasn't concerned about the growth of the church. You are certainly out of harmony with your leaders on that aspect as well, that is for certain. Because they certainly care, a lot. That is what is behind the recent lowering of the age a member can go on a mission.
That seems how you take all positions concerning your faith. It's the one to have if you wish to avoid all conversation. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
<quoted text>
But, you're not a Nazarene. Their leaders, and what they say have no authority to you.
But you seem afraid to do even that. When it comes to your faith, that is.
You don't set the agenda for what I discuss. The wild accusations of a former member who has turned rabidly "anti-Mormon" are of no real concern to me.
You castigate the LDS Church for it's position on homosexuality, while you are a member of another church, the Salvation Army, with an identical position. That's called hypocrisy. If you cared about "gay rights" as much as you claim, and were an honest man, with others, and with yourself, you would hold as much contempt for your church as you do mine. But no, you single mine out, while you give yours a pass. You use the excuse that it's because the Salvation Army doesn't require you to be a member in order to earn salvation. Well, "that dog don't hunt". You give your time and tithing to the Salvation Army, thus you materially support a church that is considered by the LGBT community as "anti-gay". What's more, you've said you teach sunday school. By doing so you support and perpetuate your churches teaching, including those on homosexuality.
Thus, while you live your church on Sunday, you vocally oppose it's teachings the rest of the week. Where, exactly, does your heart lie? Who's taking up space in the pew?
You state my church is racist. Yet there are millions of members around the world of different nationalities and skin colors, who, as members in good standing, with fulls benefit of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, obviously disagree. Indeed, growth of the church outside the U.S., among what would be considered "minorities" here in our nation, meets or exceeds church growth here. That wonderful fact alone is testament to how incorrect you are.
Being that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS the gospel of Jesus Christ, the idea the it can be "out of harmony" with Christ's teachings is impossible. I've never seen members who struggle with personal issues that put their salvation in jeopardy treated with anger or disrespect, because it simply doesn't happen. Indeed, quite the opposite is true. You, being a former member, are simply not privy to what goes on within the church, and your perceptions are tainted by your agenda, extreme negativity, and the fact that former "Mormons" who reach the level of animosity you do generally all get together to commiserate with each other, spreading, amplifying, and likely reveling in, what are likely "enhanced" stories to begin with.

Your assertion that I'm the first "Mormon" you've met who isn't concerned about church growth is laughable. The church will grow at God's pace, not man's pace. Some things you say make me really question if you were ever really a member. Have you lived your anti-LDS agenda for so long that you can no longer determine reality? Apparently so.

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