Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32073 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19174 Dec 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
As for your cries of "racism", you are like the leftists who cry racism every time someone disagrees with Barack Obama on political issues. It is misdirection, nothing more.
Not true, the racism of the LDS church is well documented. The Book of Mormon still teaches it. The LDS may have changed their policy about allowing blacks to hold the priesthood and attending the temple, but they still haven't rejected the teachings that created the policy in the first place. That is fact.It' your teachings, own it, or feel free to prove me wrong.
Your church, the Salvation Army, still has a stated doctrine against homosexuality and gay marriage, yet you, who vocally supports gay marriage, still remain a member of a church considered "anti-gay" by the gay community. You still work for, and spread the message of, a church that is "anti-gay", yet you refuse to address your hypocrisy. Every time I bring it up, you misdirect with the term "racism" towards the Lord's church. It's an age old ruse, but it's not effective. The term "racism" has been overused to the point that the only people who think it's still effective are those who bandy it about.
The doctrine against homosexuality in the Army isn't racism, it's bigotry. When you discriminate against homosexuals, you are doing so against homosexuals of all races. What Mormonism taught against was race based, and bigotry both. The message I spread isn't "join my church and be saved" it's "put your faith in the blood of Jesus Christ and be saved". I don't care if a person joins my church or not. I'm a missionary for the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Salvation Army. That and the fact I'm using the Army to help the poor and homeless is not hypocrisy, it's doing what Jesus commanded us to do. Despite the Army's policy on homosexuals, they will not refuse to help feed or clothe someone because they are homosexual.
My church has failed? Not at all. My church grows and prospers worldwide. New members come to the fold everyday because of my church's message of love and salvation. That is the fact.
The most growth in the LDS church is by birth, not conversion. That is also a fact. And of those who do convert the retention rate is very low. That is also the truth. Any member can prove this for themselves by looking at the list of membership and comparing it to the actual number of people who attend on a regular bases. I know for a fact in my home ward it was 1 in 5 or 6. I have no doubt the coming of the internet has only made that worst.
Angry and bitter ex-Mormons may have loud mouths, but their actual numbers are small compared to those who find solace in God's teachings. In short, the rancor of ex-Mormons has no effect among believers, but if you all want to get together and continue to loudly convince each other you are correct, have at it. It's your right.
And no doubt that pisses you off. But I do know for a fact that our efforts do have effect because I was there for the many who has left because of my efforts and perseverance. Mormons are coming to the Lord, and out of the LDS church.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19175 Dec 2, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true, the racism of the LDS church is well documented. The Book of Mormon still teaches it. The LDS may have changed their policy about allowing blacks to hold the priesthood and attending the temple, but they still haven't rejected the teachings that created the policy in the first place. That is fact.It' your teachings, own it, or feel free to prove me wrong.
<quoted text>
The doctrine against homosexuality in the Army isn't racism, it's bigotry. When you discriminate against homosexuals, you are doing so against homosexuals of all races. What Mormonism taught against was race based, and bigotry both. The message I spread isn't "join my church and be saved" it's "put your faith in the blood of Jesus Christ and be saved". I don't care if a person joins my church or not. I'm a missionary for the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Salvation Army. That and the fact I'm using the Army to help the poor and homeless is not hypocrisy, it's doing what Jesus commanded us to do. Despite the Army's policy on homosexuals, they will not refuse to help feed or clothe someone because they are homosexual.
<quoted text>
The most growth in the LDS church is by birth, not conversion. That is also a fact. And of those who do convert the retention rate is very low. That is also the truth. Any member can prove this for themselves by looking at the list of membership and comparing it to the actual number of people who attend on a regular bases. I know for a fact in my home ward it was 1 in 5 or 6. I have no doubt the coming of the internet has only made that worst.
<quoted text>
And no doubt that pisses you off. But I do know for a fact that our efforts do have effect because I was there for the many who has left because of my efforts and perseverance. Mormons are coming to the Lord, and out of the LDS church.
Sorry, but a lot of folks think the Holy Bible is racist. If one wants to focus upon supposed racism in the Book of Mormon, then they must also focus upon racism in the Holy Bible.

I content there is no racism in the word of God, thus there is no racism in either book of scripture.

Both your church, and my church, have an identical biblical position on homosexuality, that it is sin. I support the biblical view. It is you who are at odds with God's word on the issue.

I'm not concerned with the amount of growth in the LDS Church. It IS growing by both conversion and by birth, and that is ok by me. God teaches that while his plan is available to all, not all will accept.

And no, the folks who leave the church, for whatever reason, don't "piss me off". Everyone has free agency. If folks wish to leave the church, for whatever reason, whether it be your deception, or any other reason, that's the breaks. Members can do their best to fellowship members who are wavering, but the final decision rests with the individual involved. It's a shame some feel the hatred and bitterness, as you do, but it's really not my problem.

As for "every member a missionary", I see that sign in front of the local Church of the Nazarene too. We all do what we can, but I'm just never going to take an internet forum all that seriously. Here, I represent only myself, in all my insane glory!!!
Wisdom

Rochester, KY

#19177 Dec 3, 2012
Mormon church is no longer racist. When the Federal Government was going to stop funds for BYU they had their God come out to say the curse on blacks was lifted.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19178 Dec 3, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but a lot of folks think the Holy Bible is racist. If one wants to focus upon supposed racism in the Book of Mormon, then they must also focus upon racism in the Holy Bible.
That's OK. If someone tells me the Bible is racist, I ask them why. I talk about their concerns, their reasons, try to show where they are wrong. I can show where the Book of Mormon is still racist today. Give you verse and chapter. But you fear the discussion.
I content there is no racism in the word of God, thus there is no racism in either book of scripture.
If you content that, why can't you defend what you are contenting?
Both your church, and my church, have an identical biblical position on homosexuality, that it is sin. I support the biblical view. It is you who are at odds with God's word on the issue.
Love and forgiveness is never at odds with the word of God. See how Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. Compare that to how the LDS church would have treated the same woman today, and you can see how out of harmony the LDS church is with the message of Jesus Christ.
I'm not concerned with the amount of growth in the LDS Church. It IS growing by both conversion and by birth, and that is ok by me. God teaches that while his plan is available to all, not all will accept.
Then you would be the first Mormon I have ever met who wasn't concerned about the growth of the church. You are certainly out of harmony with your leaders on that aspect as well, that is for certain. Because they certainly care, a lot. That is what is behind the recent lowering of the age a member can go on a mission.
And no, the folks who leave the church, for whatever reason, don't "piss me off". Everyone has free agency. If folks wish to leave the church, for whatever reason, whether it be your deception, or any other reason, that's the breaks. Members can do their best to fellowship members who are wavering, but the final decision rests with the individual involved. It's a shame some feel the hatred and bitterness, as you do, but it's really not my problem.
That seems how you take all positions concerning your faith. It's the one to have if you wish to avoid all conversation. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
As for "every member a missionary", I see that sign in front of the local Church of the Nazarene too.
But, you're not a Nazarene. Their leaders, and what they say have no authority to you.

We all do what we can, but I'm just never going to take an internet forum all that seriously. Here, I represent only myself, in all my insane glory!!!
But you seem afraid to do even that. When it comes to your faith, that is.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19180 Dec 4, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
That's OK. If someone tells me the Bible is racist, I ask them why. I talk about their concerns, their reasons, try to show where they are wrong. I can show where the Book of Mormon is still racist today. Give you verse and chapter. But you fear the discussion.
Love and forgiveness is never at odds with the word of God. See how Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. Compare that to how the LDS church would have treated the same woman today, and you can see how out of harmony the LDS church is with the message of Jesus Christ.
Then you would be the first Mormon I have ever met who wasn't concerned about the growth of the church. You are certainly out of harmony with your leaders on that aspect as well, that is for certain. Because they certainly care, a lot. That is what is behind the recent lowering of the age a member can go on a mission.
That seems how you take all positions concerning your faith. It's the one to have if you wish to avoid all conversation. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
<quoted text>
But, you're not a Nazarene. Their leaders, and what they say have no authority to you.
But you seem afraid to do even that. When it comes to your faith, that is.
You don't set the agenda for what I discuss. The wild accusations of a former member who has turned rabidly "anti-Mormon" are of no real concern to me.
You castigate the LDS Church for it's position on homosexuality, while you are a member of another church, the Salvation Army, with an identical position. That's called hypocrisy. If you cared about "gay rights" as much as you claim, and were an honest man, with others, and with yourself, you would hold as much contempt for your church as you do mine. But no, you single mine out, while you give yours a pass. You use the excuse that it's because the Salvation Army doesn't require you to be a member in order to earn salvation. Well, "that dog don't hunt". You give your time and tithing to the Salvation Army, thus you materially support a church that is considered by the LGBT community as "anti-gay". What's more, you've said you teach sunday school. By doing so you support and perpetuate your churches teaching, including those on homosexuality.
Thus, while you live your church on Sunday, you vocally oppose it's teachings the rest of the week. Where, exactly, does your heart lie? Who's taking up space in the pew?
You state my church is racist. Yet there are millions of members around the world of different nationalities and skin colors, who, as members in good standing, with fulls benefit of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, obviously disagree. Indeed, growth of the church outside the U.S., among what would be considered "minorities" here in our nation, meets or exceeds church growth here. That wonderful fact alone is testament to how incorrect you are.
Being that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS the gospel of Jesus Christ, the idea the it can be "out of harmony" with Christ's teachings is impossible. I've never seen members who struggle with personal issues that put their salvation in jeopardy treated with anger or disrespect, because it simply doesn't happen. Indeed, quite the opposite is true. You, being a former member, are simply not privy to what goes on within the church, and your perceptions are tainted by your agenda, extreme negativity, and the fact that former "Mormons" who reach the level of animosity you do generally all get together to commiserate with each other, spreading, amplifying, and likely reveling in, what are likely "enhanced" stories to begin with.

Your assertion that I'm the first "Mormon" you've met who isn't concerned about church growth is laughable. The church will grow at God's pace, not man's pace. Some things you say make me really question if you were ever really a member. Have you lived your anti-LDS agenda for so long that you can no longer determine reality? Apparently so.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#19181 Dec 4, 2012
Wisdom wrote:
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Very true. Any Mormon will agree. However, the key word their is false. We follow a true prophet, who guides us through our father in heaven, No different than in the days of the bible. Keep in mind, you don't have to agree with me. You don't have to believe as I do but, I have every right to believe it and my beliefs in no way affect you.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19182 Dec 4, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't set the agenda for what I discuss. The wild accusations of a former member who has turned rabidly "anti-Mormon" are of no real concern to me.
Wild? Really? If they are so "wild" how is it I'm able to back up my accusations with proof? How come can't you prove me wrong? This is what I'm trying to get out of you, truth. You're the one who makes statements without facts. When pushed for the evidence you play "I don't want to talk about it". Now that is the indication of someone afraid to to back up what they claim to believe or just can't. Which one are you?
You castigate the LDS Church for it's position on homosexuality, while you are a member of another church, the Salvation Army, with an identical position. That's called hypocrisy. If you cared about "gay rights" as much as you claim, and were an honest man, with others, and with yourself, you would hold as much contempt for your church as you do mine. But no, you single mine out, while you give yours a pass. You use the excuse that it's because the Salvation Army doesn't require you to be a member in order to earn salvation. Well, "that dog don't hunt".
Sure it does when the church isn't making unproven claims of being "the only true church." When it isn't claiming it's leaders are receiving revelation directly from God. When they know my position, because I don't hide it at all, and they still welcome me.
You give your time and tithing to the Salvation Army, thus you materially support a church that is considered by the LGBT community as "anti-gay". What's more, you've said you teach sunday school. By doing so you support and perpetuate your churches teaching, including those on homosexuality.
I don't remember saying I teach Sunday School, because I don't. I have said I could teach Sunday School in the LDS church, because of the knowledge I have of it's history. Though I doubt it would be church approved. I do give a lot of time there helping in the kitchen, feeding the poor, but my tithing goes to many organizations.
Thus, while you live your church on Sunday, you vocally oppose it's teachings the rest of the week. Where, exactly, does your heart lie? Who's taking up space in the pew?
I only oppose one of it's teachings the rest of the week. It's like family, I love them, but don't always agree with them. While I disagree with them on the homosexual issue, they don't deny help to the homosexuals. They still get the same help all of God's children get. How many homosexuals has the LDS church helped? Any? More likely none it the gay person was honest about being gay when they asked for help.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19183 Dec 4, 2012
You state my church is racist. Yet there are millions of members around the world of different nationalities and skin colors, who, as members in good standing, with fulls benefit of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, obviously disagree. Indeed, growth of the church outside the U.S., among what would be considered "minorities" here in our nation, meets or exceeds church growth here. That wonderful fact alone is testament to how incorrect you are.
And that is also due in large part because the LDS church goes to great efforts to hide it's racist teachings of the past. Just because you can fool black people into joining doesn't mean it's teachings aren't racist, it just means you "can fool some of the people, all of the time."
Being that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS the gospel of Jesus Christ, the idea the it can be "out of harmony" with Christ's teachings is impossible.
Here we again, making statements without facts. Easy to do hard to prove. Especially when some of it's teachings go directly against what Jesus actually taught, like eternal marriage. Jesus clearly taught against it. Temples also, the New Testament taught against it. "God does not dwell in temple made with human hands" kinda blows the whole point of the LDS temples out of the water. The fact Jesus never taught the principle of needing temple endowments is another good example. If the temple endowment was so essential to our salvation, why didn't he bother to teach it? In fact, why didn't the prophets of the Book of Mormon bother to teach it also? That is a problem for your faith and it's claims. Your throw out your fantasy statements that can't be backed up by facts. But just the fact you deny the grace of Jesus Christ is the biggest damnation of your faith, thinking you could ever earn you salvation is the great lie. Yet you keep telling yourselves "All is well... all is well" while riding in a sinking ship.
I've never seen members who struggle with personal issues that put their salvation in jeopardy treated with anger or disrespect, because it simply doesn't happen.
It simply does happen, and I have personally witnessed in my life and have heard many tell me their stories of abuse also. So, live in fantasyland if you wish, but most people respect reality.
Indeed, quite the opposite is true. You, being a former member, are simply not privy to what goes on within the church,
I know more of what is happening within the LDS church than you do. I have personal connections within church headquarters. How do you think I got the latest Bishop's handbook before the Bishops did? LOL.
and your perceptions are tainted by your agenda, extreme negativity, and the fact that former "Mormons" who reach the level of animosity you do generally all get together to commiserate with each other, spreading, amplifying, and likely reveling in, what are likely "enhanced" stories to begin with.
And your perceptions are tainted by yours unwillingness to see truth about the ugly side of Mormonism, sticking your head in the sand. I, unlike you, have stopped making excuses for the LDS church, and actually hold them responsible for what it is doing by it's teachings. I'm putting the blame where it belongs. It's called being honest.
Your assertion that I'm the first "Mormon" you've met who isn't concerned about church growth is laughable. The church will grow at God's pace, not man's pace.
Well it appears God isn't in much of a hurry.
Some things you say make me really question if you were ever really a member. Have you lived your anti-LDS agenda for so long that you can no longer determine reality? Apparently so.
And the way you live your life makes me wonder if you are really a member. Talk is cheap.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19184 Dec 4, 2012
Another naughty Mormon: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22428...

Oh, the shame!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19185 Dec 4, 2012
The growth of the LDS church is down:

"During the past 50 years, he writes, the church’s annual increase was highest in 1978 at 11.9 percent and lowest in the 2002 at minus 0.2 percent, according to Martinich’s analysis."

Now we are starting to understand the lowering of ages for missionaries at the last conference.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/5...

"In 1980, the official LDS Church magazine the Ensign projected that there would be 3,600 stakes by the year 2000 and 11.14 million members," Martinich writes, "whereas the church reported only 2,581 stakes at year-end 2000 — a thousand less than anticipated."

God must be taking a holiday.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19186 Dec 4, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Wild? Really? If they are so "wild" how is it I'm able to back up my accusations with proof? How come can't you prove me wrong? This is what I'm trying to get out of you, truth. You're the one who makes statements without facts. When pushed for the evidence you play "I don't want to talk about it". Now that is the indication of someone afraid to to back up what they claim to believe or just can't. Which one are you?
<quoted text>
Sure it does when the church isn't making unproven claims of being "the only true church." When it isn't claiming it's leaders are receiving revelation directly from God. When they know my position, because I don't hide it at all, and they still welcome me.
<quoted text>
I don't remember saying I teach Sunday School, because I don't. I have said I could teach Sunday School in the LDS church, because of the knowledge I have of it's history. Though I doubt it would be church approved. I do give a lot of time there helping in the kitchen, feeding the poor, but my tithing goes to many organizations.
<quoted text>
I only oppose one of it's teachings the rest of the week. It's like family, I love them, but don't always agree with them. While I disagree with them on the homosexual issue, they don't deny help to the homosexuals. They still get the same help all of God's children get. How many homosexuals has the LDS church helped? Any? More likely none it the gay person was honest about being gay when they asked for help.
To be continued...
Oh, we could go on and on, and you won't convince me of anything, and I won't convince you.

I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and I know that for a fact. I don't have to prove anything to you, and you haven't proven anything to me. I guess I could go back months and find the post when you said you taught Sunday School, or maybe it was Bible Study, either way, you said you were doing it under the auspices of the Salvation Army, and they have identical beliefs concerning homosexuality as does the LDS Church. If you don't teach what they teach, they might have an issue with you. You obviously have an issue with their doctrine, but you choose to ignore it, because the Salvation Army's "good works" outweigh, in your mind, what you feel is their false doctrine. Hypocrisy works, if you practice it, at least. And in exchange, they get some free labor out of you! Sounds like a good trade for you both!

As for the LDS Church helping homosexuals, the church and it's membership help folks with different belief systems on a regular basis. Again, it makes me wonder if you were ever actually a member when you question that. "Hate the sin, love the sinner." is the essence of Church doctrine.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19187 Dec 4, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
Another naughty Mormon: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22428...
Oh, the shame!
More naughty Salvation Army members stealing from the charity:

http://caroldunsmore.wordpress.com/2012/11/29...

Oh, the shame!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19188 Dec 4, 2012
And the LGBT community still finds the Salvation Army's stance on homosexuality offensive, as per this article from a couple days ago:

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/12/the-salvat...

I didn't know that the Salvation Army denied membership to practicing homosexuals.

One wonders how someone who supports gay rights can be a member of such an organization!

Since: Dec 12

Laguna Niguel, CA

#19189 Dec 4, 2012
~~!
Wisdom

Rochester, KY

#19191 Dec 4, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text> Very true. Any Mormon will agree. However, the key word their is false. We follow a true prophet, who guides us through our father in heaven, No different than in the days of the bible. Keep in mind, you don't have to agree with me. You don't have to believe as I do but, I have every right to believe it and my beliefs in no way affect you.
So sad. I use to wonder how Jim Jones got over 900 people to kill themselves saying he was a prophet. I don't wonder that anymore. Some people are just blind to truth.
Joe Smith, Jim Jones, Muhammad, Warren Jeffs, David Korash all had many followers. Joe Smith even used Muhammad's exact same story.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19193 Dec 5, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
And the LGBT community still finds the Salvation Army's stance on homosexuality offensive, as per this article from a couple days ago:
http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/12/the-salvat...
I didn't know that the Salvation Army denied membership to practicing homosexuals.
One wonders how someone who supports gay rights can be a member of such an organization!
I agree, the Army should change their policy on this issue. Now let's hear you say the same for the LDS church. I wonder how someone who totally disregards the Word of Wisdom can be a Mormon.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19196 Dec 5, 2012
Wisdom wrote:
<quoted text>So sad. I use to wonder how Jim Jones got over 900 people to kill themselves saying he was a prophet. I don't wonder that anymore. Some people are just blind to truth.
Joe Smith, Jim Jones, Muhammad, Warren Jeffs, David Korash all had many followers. Joe Smith even used Muhammad's exact same story.
There is nothing at all sad in knowing and embracing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

And I'd be careful about your equating Muhammad with Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs, and David Koresh. You might cause rioting in some middle-eastern nation.

Just ask Barack Obama and Susan Rice.
Wisdom

Rochester, KY

#19197 Dec 5, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
There is nothing at all sad in knowing and embracing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And I'd be careful about your equating Muhammad with Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs, and David Koresh. You might cause rioting in some middle-eastern nation.
Just ask Barack Obama and Susan Rice.
You may have a point. All false religions to start with isolate their followers. The Mormons moved to Utah and the Muslims just ran everyone off.
You will note in my list of false prophets that they ALL isolated the followers. One of the four signs of being a cult with a false leader.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19198 Dec 5, 2012
Wisdom wrote:
<quoted text>You may have a point. All false religions to start with isolate their followers. The Mormons moved to Utah and the Muslims just ran everyone off.
You will note in my list of false prophets that they ALL isolated the followers. One of the four signs of being a cult with a false leader.
You don't know LDS history.

You base your theory upon two primary false assumptions:

First off, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a false religion.

Secondly, the LDS Church has never made any attempt to isolate believers. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Wherever the LDS Church has based it's operations, it has always interacted with the local community, as well as sending emissaries out worldwide to make it's message, presence, and location known.

The "Mormons" did not move to Utah, because Utah did not yet exist. The "Mormons" moved out of the United States into undeclared territory, because they were constantly harassed, threatened, had their property stolen and destroyed, and were even murdered, because their religious beliefs differed from those around them.

Very similar to what happened with the early church, including Christ's disciples.

Church leadership was unsuccessful in obtaining legal redress from civil government, and became tired of constantly having to move and rebuild, so a more permanent solution was sought. By all accounts, that solution was quite successful, in that the church was able to build and grow into a more stable opposing force by the time the U.S. government came around to enveloping them again.

The very existence of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today, and it's growth worldwide, is testament to the success of inspired decisions made by the LDS pioneers who moved the church west.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19199 Dec 5, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know LDS history.
Well, I do.
You base your theory upon two primary false assumptions:
First off, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a false religion.
You're right, it is a real religion, but a false Gospel of Jesus Christ. A poor counterfeit of what Jesus taught and created.
Secondly, the LDS Church has never made any attempt to isolate believers. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Wherever the LDS Church has based it's operations, it has always interacted with the local community, as well as sending emissaries out worldwide to make it's message, presence, and location known.
The "Mormons" did not move to Utah, because Utah did not yet exist.
That is just childish nitpicking. The land was the same, no matter what they called it. It was Utah they moved to.
The "Mormons" moved out of the United States into undeclared territory, because they were constantly harassed, threatened, had their property stolen and destroyed, and were even murdered, because their religious beliefs differed from those around them.
No, they were forced out of the U.S. because of their murdering and stealing. They were also forced to move because they tried to dominate the areas they lived in. Played cheap games with the politics, and made non-members hate them. They were SOB's. Self centered SOB's, lead by one of the most corrupt people in America, Joseph Smith. Religious beliefs had nothing to do with it, unless you consider whoring, murdering, and stealing, a religious belief. I know the muslims do.
Very similar to what happened with the early church, including Christ's disciples.
Quite like nothing the early church did. The early church never left civilization and set up their own territory. The early church never taught it was OK to steal from their neighbors.They early church never taught it was OK to marry other men's wives. The early church never taught a perversion of marriage, in fact it taught against it. So, it was nothing like what the early church did.
Church leadership was unsuccessful in obtaining legal redress from civil government, and became tired of constantly having to move and rebuild, so a more permanent solution was sought. By all accounts, that solution was quite successful, in that the church was able to build and grow into a more stable opposing force by the time the U.S. government came around to enveloping them again.
The very existence of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today, and it's growth worldwide, is testament to the success of inspired decisions made by the LDS pioneers who moved the church west.
Yet after they settled in Utah, anybody wanting to leave was killed. The LDS church became a religious dictatorship.

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