If it is not stopped, the Republican ...

If it is not stopped, the Republican war on democracy will tear this nation apart

There are 82 comments on the www.dailykos.com story from Jan 28, 2013, titled If it is not stopped, the Republican war on democracy will tear this nation apart. In it, www.dailykos.com reports that:

Republicans can't win national elections anymore, having lost the popular vote in five of the last six, and with demographics shifts moving solidly against them , rather than try to better represent the will of the American electorate, they're instead going to try to break the system so that the will of the American electorate no longer matters.

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“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#61 Jan 30, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
have you been to Paine's home?
You ought go.
http://www.thomaspainecottage.org/photo-galle...
No.

I want to though. But, I refuse to fly and have some form of government goon tell me I am a prisoner in my own country.

Spread you legs, take your shoes off, take your belt off, take your jacket off, put your hands above your head. Now look at yourself, are you a free individual or a prisoner?
B fool

Nha Trang, Vietnam

#62 Jan 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not agree, since Obama has taken office, the United States has invaded Africa as a hole. 35 bases in 2012 have been established under the banner of Africom.
Obama has waged a pre-emptive war on false pretenses in Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Mali. His administration has been funneling in money and weapons to Al Qaeda in Syria, Egypt, and Libya.
As much as people do not like it, Anwar Al-Awaki was killed by a US drone strike in Yemen. People say he was a terrorist, however, he was an American citizen. People can call him what they want, but, bottom line was he was an America citizen. Being a citizen, he has the same protections as every other American citizen. The protection of their constitutionally protected rights. Means a right to fair trial with a jury, means the right against illegal search and seizure, means the right to free speech, means the right to privacy. The same rights we all have. The courts never issued an article or ruling of treason, which is punishable by death. But, that is exactly what happened.
Thomas Paine warned the American people of this type of behavior by government when he said, "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
it"s Colink Bowell set it up from DAY one with WMD!! watta fool U is!! ;-000

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#63 Jan 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
again a note of discord in the case of Al-Awaki.
The Patriot acts erosion of privacy for law abiding US citizens is disturbing.
And needs to be repeal immediately.
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
Put your self in the place of the President, how do you proceed on this matter.
If I was in his shoes, I would have followed the constitution and law. Not violate it as he has and Bush did.
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
Should the Seals have been required to read Osama Bin Laden his Miranda rights?
Bin Laden was not a citizen of the US. But, let's not get into a Bin Laden debate. I question what they have told us due to the lies they have told us before and accounts of the official narrative do not add up and how we could never see the proof he was dead. Just had to take a politicians word for it.........
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
the killing of a criminal fugitive is not new. Dillinger, Bonny and Clyde.... any criminal who is 'on the lamb', is subject to the risk of law enforsement using deadly force. In these famous criminal cases courts had issued arrest warrents but had never assumed guilt . The actions of Dillinger or Al-Awaki while being persued by law enforsement created a justification for the 'Dead or Alive' mentality
Rather than shed any tear for Al-Awaki. I would perfer to see the Patriot act Be eliminated and proceed as if these vermin were common criminals who are armed dangerous and therefor lacking their surrender are subject to law enforcement's use of deadly force.
When I was in the Navy, one of the duties besides my main job (Air Traffic Control) was base security. We had a team of Marines come down and instruct us on security, the laws, etc...

One of the things they instructed us on was the use of deadly and the military officials had very stringent policies on deadly force. The only time deadly force was authorized was when a citizen or the security individuals life was in immediate danger. Basically a live and die situation.

When I look back at Anwar Al-Awaki. Was that the true case? He was in Yemen. Being in Yemen, how was an American citizen's life in immediate danger?

My purpose for using him as an example is how far is too far? How far will we the people allow our government to go? Will we the people allow a precedent to be established by our government that can eventually lead to ourselves? Are we as people less moral now than we have been based on fear from lies we were told (weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda)?

Morality and Virtue are tied to our humanity. When we lose principles of morality or virtue we lose portions of our humanity.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#64 Jan 30, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
have you been to Paine's home?
You ought go.
http://www.thomaspainecottage.org/photo-galle...
You must concede that the founding fathers were not of a single mind and Paine was thought of a a bit radical by his peers

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#65 Jan 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
And needs to be repeal immediately.
<quoted text>
If I was in his shoes, I would have followed the constitution and law. Not violate it as he has and Bush did.
<quoted text>
Bin Laden was not a citizen of the US. But, let's not get into a Bin Laden debate. I question what they have told us due to the lies they have told us before and accounts of the official narrative do not add up and how we could never see the proof he was dead. Just had to take a politicians word for it.........
<quoted text>
When I was in the Navy, one of the duties besides my main job (Air Traffic Control) was base security. We had a team of Marines come down and instruct us on security, the laws, etc...
One of the things they instructed us on was the use of deadly and the military officials had very stringent policies on deadly force. The only time deadly force was authorized was when a citizen or the security individuals life was in immediate danger. Basically a live and die situation.
When I look back at Anwar Al-Awaki. Was that the true case? He was in Yemen. Being in Yemen, how was an American citizen's life in immediate danger?
My purpose for using him as an example is how far is too far? How far will we the people allow our government to go? Will we the people allow a precedent to be established by our government that can eventually lead to ourselves? Are we as people less moral now than we have been based on fear from lies we were told (weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda)?
Morality and Virtue are tied to our humanity. When we lose principles of morality or virtue we lose portions of our humanity.
My friend you speak of a pure libertarian Gov't, an ideal that has never been realized. It is true that from time to time we have taken a 'Tactical' view of our rights. Abe Lincoln selectively ignored and decided to mis-interpret
the constitution, a a policy designed to save the vessel of the constitution, the nation
I have to take the view that Ol' Abe was correct.
We lose portions of our humanity on too regular a basis and for the poorest of rational. But a dogmatic and pure application of theory nearly always fails function demands flexibility.
I submit that a pure 'Paine' Republic would not have survived the whiskey because co hersion would be in violation of theory

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#66 Jan 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
You must concede that the founding fathers were not of a single mind and Paine was thought of a a bit radical by his peers
From my understanding and reading his works. The way perceive it is yes. His peers thought he was rather a radical after he wrote The Age of Reason (which is a great read, enlightening, comical in parts). A work that actually got him thrown in jail since it was based on religion.

Now for majority of the colonies and founders, they were very religious. Which is fine, however, they supported specific organized religion. Paine was very against organized religion. In particular the Catholic Church.

Now Paine's belief in religion was "particular". He said in The Age of Reason, "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Now looking over the history of all major religions, where is he wrong? But, people of his time did not want to hear it. For Paine, reason dictated his behavior and his belief.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#67 Jan 30, 2013
typo
I submit that a pure 'Paine' republic would not have survived the whiskey rebellion...

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#68 Jan 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend you speak of a pure libertarian Gov't, an ideal that has never been realized.
Unfortunately. I put full blame on the schools and media for this. Their manipulation of history and their lacking of informing the general public has lead our society into the biggest ignorant society we have ever seen. When people know more of who is on the Bachelor instead of what is our history truly is and the works of our founders and their teachings and revelations, we as a society are screwed.
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>It is true that from time to time we have taken a 'Tactical' view of our rights. Abe Lincoln selectively ignored and decided to mis-interpret the constitution, a a policy designed to save the vessel of the constitution, the nation I have to take the view that Ol' Abe was correct.
To me I completely disagree. That is just like Bush getting in front of the people saying he has to abandon free market principles in order to save the free market. Or Obama during his inaugural address saying in order to protect individual liberty we have to have collective action. Both of those statements completely contradict themselves.
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>We lose portions of our humanity on too regular a basis and for the poorest of rational.
And I think this is why we as people need a renaissance/rebirth. In the quality and standards of the ancients.
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text> But a dogmatic and pure application of theory nearly always fails function demands flexibility.
I submit that a pure 'Paine' Republic would not have survived the whiskey because co hersion would be in violation of theory
I disagree. I think in Paine Republic (which would be the same as a Jefferson Republic since they shared the same views of government, humanity, and religion) would be more in control of the people and not politicians or political parties.

And to go on with that a little further, George Washington's farewell speech rings true:

"However political parties may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#69 Jan 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
I want to though. But, I refuse to fly and have some form of government goon tell me I am a prisoner in my own country.
Spread you legs, take your shoes off, take your belt off, take your jacket off, put your hands above your head. Now look at yourself, are you a free individual or a prisoner?
Not to mention the terible waste of fuel on airplanes.

Use a wheeled conveyance.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#70 Jan 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
You must concede that the founding fathers were not of a single mind and Paine was thought of a a bit radical by his peers
Granted. The Viginia planters wanted freedom to sell directly to the world. The New England radicals wanted freedom to manufacture, and sell as they pleased.

A few, like Sam Adams, and old Tom Paine, were really interested in political freedom. And, as Paine said, The Rights Of Man. And Paine saw government as an unfortunate but necessary evil. Paine's vision for the country he named went far beyond getting free of parlimentary strictures.

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#71 Jan 30, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Granted. The Viginia planters wanted freedom to sell directly to the world. The New England radicals wanted freedom to manufacture, and sell as they pleased.
A few, like Sam Adams, and old Tom Paine, were really interested in political freedom. And, as Paine said, The Rights Of Man. And Paine saw government as an unfortunate but necessary evil. Paine's vision for the country he named went far beyond getting free of parlimentary strictures.
yes it is a necessary evil, but, what he said was, "Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best stage, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one."

So it should be very limited in scope and power. The power should be left in the hands of the people.

Now comparing that to today's situation. The people have no power. Multinational corporations have the power for they have the money to buy off politicians and government officials. I have used the example before of campaign contributions. Make the phone call to your Congress person or Senator to voice your concerns and see if you actually get a hold of them. But then, call again later, this time open up with you have a contribution of $25k to their super PAC and watch that slimey SOB show up at your door for personal thanks.

The people have not awoken to the fact that they are the ones in control. They have become subservient to government. The pyramid of control where the people are on top has been flipped over and now government has complete control. The people? Quiet and ignorant.
Seth Adams

AOL

#72 Jan 30, 2013
We are only a Nation of obamites now and must submit to his whims. We don't measure up to previous generations and must cower before Big Brother.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#73 Jan 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
yes it is a necessary evil, but, what he said was, "Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best stage, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one."
So it should be very limited in scope and power. The power should be left in the hands of the people.
Now comparing that to today's situation. The people have no power. Multinational corporations have the power for they have the money to buy off politicians and government officials. I have used the example before of campaign contributions. Make the phone call to your Congress person or Senator to voice your concerns and see if you actually get a hold of them. But then, call again later, this time open up with you have a contribution of $25k to their super PAC and watch that slimey SOB show up at your door for personal thanks.
The people have not awoken to the fact that they are the ones in control. They have become subservient to government. The pyramid of control where the people are on top has been flipped over and now government has complete control. The people? Quiet and ignorant.
And here is a Pictish view of the same impulse...as applies to deterministic religion. It is a blast...
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best stage, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one."



Mr_Bill has been active in government and politics for more than 40 years, and does not feel that way as you.
However, the abuses you hate would be oblivated with a reform of the airwaves and cable political advert price structure.

One of my long term issues is a super-deep cut in ad prices during the last month of a political campaign, buit into the licencing of any broadcasting that travels through the people's airwaves, or over the people's streets.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#74 Jan 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately. I put full blame on the schools and media for this. Their manipulation of history and their lacking of informing the general public has lead our society into the biggest ignorant society we have ever seen. When people know more of who is on the Bachelor instead of what is our history truly is and the works of our founders and their teachings and revelations, we as a society are screwed.
<quoted text>
To me I completely disagree. That is just like Bush getting in front of the people saying he has to abandon free market principles in order to save the free market. Or Obama during his inaugural address saying in order to protect individual liberty we have to have collective action. Both of those statements completely contradict themselves.
<quoted text>
And I think this is why we as people need a renaissance/rebirth. In the quality and standards of the ancients.
<quoted text>
I disagree. I think in Paine Republic (which would be the same as a Jefferson Republic since they shared the same views of government, humanity, and religion) would be more in control of the people and not politicians or political parties.
And to go on with that a little further, George Washington's farewell speech rings true:
"However political parties may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."
the first observation is claiming that my point of view has evolved in ignorance, and yours has not, takes a small bit of hubris. I respect your knowledge and until that section had respected the presentation. A divergence in our understandings in no way should be taken to indicate any form of intellectual laziness on either your
or my part.
The thought that Jefferson had governed solely from theoretical concept is inaccurate the Louisiana purchase
was executed in an extra-constitutional fashion. In a letter to John Breckinridge dated 8\12\1803 Jefferson explains to Breckinridge that his (Jefferson's) belief that a constitutional amendment would be require for the United States to acquire foreign territory and then goes on to justify this contradiction on the basis of national best interest .
"The executive in seizing ....so much advances the good of the country, having done an act beyond the constitution."
A wise man of one type had said every rule has an exception.

radiofreeamerica

Tampa, FL

#75 Jan 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
so you think there is no divide between the more traditional GOP'ers and the hard core tea party?
No more so than between the Blue dogs and the left-wing progressives in the democrat party.In fact I*d say there is a deeper divide with the deomocrats.Sooner or later the blue dogs are going to get tired of the left-wing socialist agenda of no God in school and no problem with under aged abortions without parental consent,etc.,etc.(and those are just two examples among many).Its already happenned.Everytime a Republican gets elected President,everytime Republicans win in the Congress or State House/Legislatures its because the Republicans managed to get democrats to vote Republican.Just because obama won again(in large part because many Republicans stayed home while the democrats got out the vote)the biased news media(which is most of the media)pays no attention to the Republican victories which are staggering considering the news media portrays the Republicans as a rogue party when in fact the electorate is voting Republican in large numbers.(BTW,I*m registered as an independent).

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#76 Jan 31, 2013
radiofreeamerica wrote:
<quoted text>No more so than between the Blue dogs and the left-wing progressives in the democrat party.In fact I*d say there is a deeper divide with the deomocrats.Sooner or later the blue dogs are going to get tired of the left-wing socialist agenda of no God in school and no problem with under aged abortions without parental consent,etc.,etc.(and those are just two examples among many).Its already happenned.Everytime a Republican gets elected President,everytime Republicans win in the Congress or State House/Legislatures its because the Republicans managed to get democrats to vote Republican.Just because obama won again(in large part because many Republicans stayed home while the democrats got out the vote)the biased news media(which is most of the media)pays no attention to the Republican victories which are staggering considering the news media portrays the Republicans as a rogue party when in fact the electorate is voting Republican in large numbers.(BTW,I*m registered as an independent).
I am old enough to have seen the mechanics of this play out once before.
in 1974 i enrolled the first time i joined the GOP because the radicals of the Democratic Party were running the show. so i voted for Ford in '76 volunteered for John Anderson in 1980. by then more idealist factions were taking the GOP. When Reagan said in his '80 acceptance speech "...some people don't belong here..."
He was talking about Anderson's centerists . the first purge had started.
By 1988 the Dems were beginning to thing about the way they were going and by '92 they had stopped listening their extreme members. And in the GOP Pat Robertson was running against Bush I. Now the GOP is infested with radicals and the have yet to stop listening to radicals. when they do the pendulum swings back
blaming the fact that the GOP has won one majority in a Presidential election since 1988 on an the myth media
bias is a prime example of the GOP's problem. Until the GOP realizes that the extreme right can not win a national election they will spend their time doomed, perfecting yesterdays mistake

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#77 Jan 31, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
I am old enough to have seen the mechanics of this play out once before.
in 1974 i enrolled the first time i joined the GOP because the radicals of the Democratic Party were running the show. so i voted for Ford in '76 volunteered for John Anderson in 1980. by then more idealist factions were taking the GOP. When Reagan said in his '80 acceptance speech "...some people don't belong here..."
He was talking about Anderson's centerists . the first purge had started.
By 1988 the Dems were beginning to thing about the way they were going and by '92 they had stopped listening their extreme members. And in the GOP Pat Robertson was running against Bush I. Now the GOP is infested with radicals and the have yet to stop listening to radicals. when they do the pendulum swings back
blaming the fact that the GOP has won one majority in a Presidential election since 1988 on an the myth media
bias is a prime example of the GOP's problem. Until the GOP realizes that the extreme right can not win a national election they will spend their time doomed, perfecting yesterdays mistake
Rocky Repub?
radiofreeamerica

Tampa, FL

#78 Jan 31, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
I am old enough to have seen the mechanics of this play out once before.
in 1974 i enrolled the first time i joined the GOP because the radicals of the Democratic Party were running the show. so i voted for Ford in '76 volunteered for John Anderson in 1980. by then more idealist factions were taking the GOP. When Reagan said in his '80 acceptance speech "...some people don't belong here..."
He was talking about Anderson's centerists . the first purge had started.
By 1988 the Dems were beginning to thing about the way they were going and by '92 they had stopped listening their extreme members. And in the GOP Pat Robertson was running against Bush I. Now the GOP is infested with radicals and the have yet to stop listening to radicals. when they do the pendulum swings back
blaming the fact that the GOP has won one majority in a Presidential election since 1988 on an the myth media
bias is a prime example of the GOP's problem. Until the GOP realizes that the extreme right can not win a national election they will spend their time doomed, perfecting yesterdays mistake
Well if you are not in line with the liberal medias agenda they label you extreme.I think you are under their influence.Mean while the far left wants to dismantle the 2nd amendment and find the Constitution as inconvenient and out dated.Thats pretty "extreme" to me.And there are more examples than that of left-wing extremism.How about Bloombergs ridiculous war on soda?Theres more but time is limited here.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#79 Jan 31, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Rocky Repub?
imagine that moderate Republicans

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#80 Jan 31, 2013
radiofreeamerica wrote:
<quoted text>Well if you are not in line with the liberal medias agenda they label you extreme.I think you are under their influence.Mean while the far left wants to dismantle the 2nd amendment and find the Constitution as inconvenient and out dated.Thats pretty "extreme" to me.And there are more examples than that of left-wing extremism.How about Bloombergs ridiculous war on soda?Theres more but time is limited here.
The main stream media isn't the GOP's biggest problem never was never will be.
Good old Ron Reagan had them eating out of his hand.
It is possible to be conservative and not be at war with the media.
also if the GOP's elected officials and rank and file sound shrill or perhaps judgmental or worse little wacky it hurts the causes they embrace. It is not medias fault for recording and reporting your parties suicide attempts.

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