Immigration Debate Injures Prominent ...

Immigration Debate Injures Prominent Presidential Candidates

There are 459 comments on the LawSchoolBlog.org story from Nov 2, 2007, titled Immigration Debate Injures Prominent Presidential Candidates. In it, LawSchoolBlog.org reports that:

“I think that you punish the crime doer.”

On October 30, in responding to questions concerning immigration, two top-tier presidential candidates, at the very least diminished their prospects of taking up residence on Pennsylvania Avenue come - 09. via LawSchoolBlog.org

Join the discussion below, or Read more at LawSchoolBlog.org.

Ya Basta

United States

#371 Nov 26, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say 'is happening', but it most certainly will if local, uneducated police officers who think the same at some of these people are given the right to enforce their own bias under the guise of 'enforcing immigration law'.
Police deal with illegals on a daily basis, and they will have a very good idea as to who is illegal and who is not, which addresses the other than "unauthorized alien" criminality.

Soon, employers will be held accountable for who they hire, as the always should have been.

The two header we need.
Ya Basta

United States

#372 Nov 26, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
It's common sense.$7.00 an hour HR clerks are not ICE agents. How about if you lay out exactly what you would do if you were one, and a friend of mine came in with documents that say he is a legal resident from Puerto Rico? Remember, Carol and others here think you should be imprisoned if you hire him and he turns out to be in the country 'illegally'. Go.
To start with, the minimum wage is now more than eight dollars an hour, unless you are present illegaly and paid under the table.

Mismatch letters as they were being utilized give a heads up to the company that there may be a possible investigation as to their hiring practices.

One company received mismatch letters concerning about a dozen of their employees, and the employees were asked to straighten out the misunderstanding with the local Social Security office.

About ten of those employees didn't show up for work the next day and haven't been seen since. The haven't even come around to collect their payroll checks for the hours they worked that week.

If someone doesn't stick around to correct bad information nor even collect wages due with no real pressure, does that not imply illegality and validity for the idea of self deportation when work is becomes unavailable?
Ya Basta

United States

#373 Nov 26, 2007
Chapin,

You never did answer my question as to whether you believed that all brown people in jail are actually "political prisoners" and should all be released for the sake of "justice".

“I love Canada”

Since: Aug 07

El Salvador

#374 Nov 26, 2007
Part 1
It seems we will never agree on some issues El Chapin. I don’t know where you get the idea that I am making assumptions about anyone based on race. I haven’t mentioned race or skin colour at all. You are clearly on the defensive. I have never once been mistaken by anyone for someone who is in an MS13 gang. I would never assume that anyone would think that of me just because I am from El Salvador.To make assumptions like that, would make me just as hypocritical and ignorant, as the people who assume such things based on my appearance. I cannot be positive, that anyone would think that of me, unless they come out and say it to my face. I am a law abiding citizen and I have worked hard to fit into my country. I am very proud of where I come from but my loyalty is now to the country in which I reside. I think it only fair, that in exchange, for all that this wonderful country has given me, it is my duty to learn the official language and respect the laws. I was fortunate enough to be accepted and invited to be a legal citizen. This is the difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal alien. They want to force themselves into a country uninvited. They want the American people to cater to their needs and demand that they be accepted no matter what the consequences. Simply by crossing the border they are saying,¨ I am here whether you like it or not, so deal with it!¨ No matter what you say, Americans have a right to decide and choose who they want in their country and what language should be spoken. It is amongst their rights, which are clearly being violated. What gives Illegals the right to do such disrespectful things? If they have the will power to march and protest on American soil, why not in their home land? Racism is shameful but even if some Americans are racist, it is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that immigration laws STILL need to be reformed and enforced.

“I love Canada”

Since: Aug 07

El Salvador

#375 Nov 26, 2007
Part 2
I see nothing wrong with Americans feeling entitled. Travelling abroad, to any particular destination, or enforcing their laws, whatever they may be, are among the rights and benefits of being an American. They don’t do it because they feel entitled to it but because they have created a country that allows its citizens the freedom and power to do such things. The difference between El Salvador and America is clear, and the reason why ¨a poor man in Metapan¨ cannot do the same has everything to do with the massive differences in both countries. If people in El Salvador or other less fortunate countries, were granted such easy access to the US or any other well developed country, I can guarantee you that more than half of them would never return. I have seen it with my own eyes. That is why Americans have that privilege and we do not. Why should Americans have to change their laws to suit Illegals? I was never talking about legal immigrants or citizens behaving blatantly or burning anything. I am talking STRICTLY about ILLEGALS, whatever their race or skin colour. Why can’t you understand that? Though you haven’t come out and directly called anyone a racist, you have certainly implied it. I have no idea how many people are legal or illegal in those protests and clearly you don’t either. So how can you be sure Illegals have not burned flags or behaved inappropriately? I am not trying to justify any behaviour of that kind, on either side, I am just saying that ILLEGALS have no right to demand anything or force themselves on Americans. They choose to put themselves in vulnerable situations at their own will and risk. I am all for diversity in every country, after all, America is built on immigrants but they all have one thing in common. They all want to preserve, respect and protect their nation. This is what the legal immigration process is trying to maintain and that is what is so offensive and dangerous about just anyone coming in uninvited and without any regard for the legal process of doing things. It has nothing to do with wanting to keep the country ¨white¨ but simply safe and balanced. As far as law enforcement using their racial bias to their favour, it is simply impossible. The most they can do, is ask someone questions about their legal status, which they have more than a right to do. If you are law abiding and legally in the US, it shouldn’t be a problem. Immigration enforcement isn’t something that depends on one person alone, it is a long process that goes through many hands. It’s not like they are going to deport anyone on the spot just for having brown skin. Please try to give the American people some credit. America wouldn’t be what it is today, if its citizens did not believe in freedom and justice. Just because you have encountered some racist behaviour on behalf of some, doesn’t mean everyone is like that.

“I love Canada”

Since: Aug 07

El Salvador

#376 Nov 26, 2007
Part 1
It seems we will never agree on some issues El Chapin. I don’t know where you get the idea that I am making assumptions about anyone based on race. I haven’t mentioned race or skin colour at all. You are clearly on the defensive. I have never once been mistaken by anyone for someone who is in an MS13 gang. I would never assume that anyone would think that of me just because I am from El Salvador.To make assumptions like that, would make me just as hypocritical and ignorant, as the people who assume such things based on my appearance. I cannot be positive, that anyone would think that of me, unless they come out and say it to my face. I am a law abiding citizen and I have worked hard to fit into my country. I am very proud of where I come from but my loyalty is now to the country in which I reside. I think it only fair, that in exchange, for all that this wonderful country has given me, it is my duty to learn the official language and respect the laws. I was fortunate enough to be accepted and invited to be a legal citizen. This is the difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal alien. They want to force themselves into a country uninvited. They want the American people to cater to their needs and demand that they be accepted no matter what the consequences. Simply by crossing the border they are saying,¨ I am here whether you like it or not, so deal with it!¨ No matter what you say, Americans have a right to decide and choose who they want in their country and what language should be spoken. It is amongst their rights, which are clearly being violated. What gives Illegals the right to do such disrespectful things? If they have the will power to march and protest on American soil, why not in their home land? Racism is shameful but even if some Americans are racist, it is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that immigration laws STILL need to be reformed and enforced.

“I love Canada”

Since: Aug 07

El Salvador

#377 Nov 26, 2007
sorry for the double post.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#378 Nov 27, 2007
Ya Basta wrote:
<quoted text>
The allegation of "Racism" is a means to an end concerning an agenda, not because racism is involved but because the charge of "racism" used to work.
Rather like Robbin Williams using air freshener to chase away the demons he hallucinated about in the movie "The Fisher King".
Shouting "Racism" doesn't work anymore. You are flogging a long dead horse who died from being overloaded with bullshit and not allowed any rest.
Justify it however you want. It exists, and it is a big part of this debate. I don't blame you for trying as hard as you can to take that off the table because every other post on here hurts your cause, but as long as I continue to see it, I'll continue to call it what it is.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#379 Nov 27, 2007
Ya Basta wrote:
<quoted text>
Police deal with illegals on a daily basis, and they will have a very good idea as to who is illegal and who is not, which addresses the other than "unauthorized alien" criminality.
Soon, employers will be held accountable for who they hire, as the always should have been.
The two header we need.
I love your specificity.'Soon'? When exactly will that be?

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#380 Nov 27, 2007
Ya Basta wrote:
<quoted text>
To start with, the minimum wage is now more than eight dollars an hour, unless you are present illegaly and paid under the table.
Mismatch letters as they were being utilized give a heads up to the company that there may be a possible investigation as to their hiring practices.
One company received mismatch letters concerning about a dozen of their employees, and the employees were asked to straighten out the misunderstanding with the local Social Security office.
About ten of those employees didn't show up for work the next day and haven't been seen since. The haven't even come around to collect their payroll checks for the hours they worked that week.
If someone doesn't stick around to correct bad information nor even collect wages due with no real pressure, does that not imply illegality and validity for the idea of self deportation when work is becomes unavailable?
Work becomes unavailable? When could that ever happen?

Let me show you how naive you are. I saw Duncan Hunter on television bragging about how great a success his small portion of the fence has been. Aprehensions are down by 80%!!! Wow, what a success, and that implies that almost nobody would cross if the fence were built completely across the border. No, wait. That just means that people have chosen not to cross there and they've moved to somewhere easier. And there is always somewhere easier.

Do you get the point I'm making? If an employer gives you a mismatch letter, you just go to the employer next door and work. Or you work at a restaurant or in construction for cash without the government knowing where you work. That's why I've always said the only solution to this will be to give them a reason to come out of the shadows on their own.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#381 Nov 27, 2007
Ya Basta wrote:
Chapin,
You never did answer my question as to whether you believed that all brown people in jail are actually "political prisoners" and should all be released for the sake of "justice".
I didn't answer it because it's ridiculous.

And, by the way, I believe you meant to use the word 'Hispanic'. Many of them have the same color skin as Caucasians.
Whitey

United States

#382 Nov 27, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
Liar. He was a Permanent Resident. To lie about a fallen soldier shows your character, not that we didn't know what kind of person you are anyway.
a permanent resident does not mean he was a citizen yet--he still must learn English and take the citizenship test and pass--oh and don't forget the Pledge of Allegiance to our flag! and then affirmed bya judge as a citizen--so go cry somewhere else!
I HATE YOU

Greer, SC

#383 Nov 27, 2007
Whitey wrote:
<quoted text>
a permanent resident does not mean he was a citizen yet--he still must learn English and take the citizenship test and pass--oh and don't forget the Pledge of Allegiance to our flag! and then affirmed bya judge as a citizen--so go cry somewhere else!
Are you still talking with food in your mouth?
I HATE YOU

Greer, SC

#384 Nov 27, 2007
Whitey wrote:
<quoted text>
a permanent resident does not mean he was a citizen yet--he still must learn English and take the citizenship test and pass--oh and don't forget the Pledge of Allegiance to our flag! and then affirmed bya judge as a citizen--so go cry somewhere else!
We know you hate anybody that is not your own race Whitey Poo
Whitey

United States

#385 Nov 27, 2007
I HATE YOU wrote:
<quoted text>We know you hate anybody that is not your own race Whitey Poo
My race is Red-White-Blue American--Thank You for noticing!
quit playinTheRaceCar d

Dallas, TX

#386 Nov 27, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
A country with less people of color. That's what you want. And for the ones who are here to be subjected to racial profiling. Did I leave out anything?
Yes, a reply. Retoric does not count. At least get up to speed with the Mexican Gov. new retoric"... give it a rest.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Alma, AR

#387 Nov 27, 2007
Whitey wrote:
<quoted text>
a permanent resident does not mean he was a citizen yet--he still must learn English and take the citizenship test and pass--oh and don't forget the Pledge of Allegiance to our flag! and then affirmed bya judge as a citizen--so go cry somewhere else!
Yet he was good enough to die for this country.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Alma, AR

#388 Nov 27, 2007
quit playinTheRaceCard wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, a reply. Retoric does not count. At least get up to speed with the Mexican Gov. new retoric"... give it a rest.
I have no idea what your post means, or otherwise I would respond.
Smokey

Corona, CA

#389 Nov 28, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
He's Jose Gutierrez, the first US soldier killed in the Iraq war.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/heroes/...
ms. chappy, you know better than that.
Why don't you give the real info on how he cheated his way into Our U.S. Military by using false docs and he was killed by one of our own as he was outed for being an illegal alien.
He entered the foster system at the age of 22 as the U.S. does not deport homeless illegal minors from other countries. He told INS that he was 14 yrs old when in fact he was 22. He was in and out of a few foster homes.
In high school, how many young teen ager girls did he violate ms. chappy? How many teenage boys did he cheat off of the football team? How many American high school graduates did he cheat out of a scholarship that he was not entitled too. And of which he ended up dropping out of college and blowing off the scholarship. Yeah, he's a real hero in your eyes and any other pro-illegal eyes.

He was no hero in Our Military. He was another Illegal Alien from Guatemala who entered Our Country Illegally, lied to authorities, reaped benefits from social services, broke other laws with false docs, entered our Military to avoid jail and with false docs to boot. All of that came out in the wash after his death.
He did not die by heroic means by any chance. He was taken out by one of our own, "one of the few" who did not have to worry about politics.

No Illegal Alien belongs in our Military. If they can not fight for their own country, I certainly do not trust their motives to fight for my Country. No way, No how.
I have much greater respect for our American Soldiers who give their all and then some.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Alma, AR

#390 Nov 28, 2007
Smokey wrote:
<quoted text>
ms. chappy, you know better than that.
Why don't you give the real info on how he cheated his way into Our U.S. Military by using false docs and he was killed by one of our own as he was outed for being an illegal alien.
He entered the foster system at the age of 22 as the U.S. does not deport homeless illegal minors from other countries. He told INS that he was 14 yrs old when in fact he was 22. He was in and out of a few foster homes.
In high school, how many young teen ager girls did he violate ms. chappy? How many teenage boys did he cheat off of the football team? How many American high school graduates did he cheat out of a scholarship that he was not entitled too. And of which he ended up dropping out of college and blowing off the scholarship. Yeah, he's a real hero in your eyes and any other pro-illegal eyes.
He was no hero in Our Military. He was another Illegal Alien from Guatemala who entered Our Country Illegally, lied to authorities, reaped benefits from social services, broke other laws with false docs, entered our Military to avoid jail and with false docs to boot. All of that came out in the wash after his death.
He did not die by heroic means by any chance. He was taken out by one of our own, "one of the few" who did not have to worry about politics.
No Illegal Alien belongs in our Military. If they can not fight for their own country, I certainly do not trust their motives to fight for my Country. No way, No how.
I have much greater respect for our American Soldiers who give their all and then some.
Like I said, people can choose to believe the official military records and prominent news organizations, or they can believe racist websites and those who laugh at our soldiers being killed.

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