Immigration Debate Injures Prominent ...

Immigration Debate Injures Prominent Presidential Candidates

There are 459 comments on the LawSchoolBlog.org story from Nov 2, 2007, titled Immigration Debate Injures Prominent Presidential Candidates. In it, LawSchoolBlog.org reports that:

“I think that you punish the crime doer.”

On October 30, in responding to questions concerning immigration, two top-tier presidential candidates, at the very least diminished their prospects of taking up residence on Pennsylvania Avenue come - 09. via LawSchoolBlog.org

Join the discussion below, or Read more at LawSchoolBlog.org.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Van Buren, AR

#247 Nov 19, 2007
SGD wrote:
<quoted text>
Screw reforms. They broke the law of the land. If i break the law, I get thrown in jail, now I'm not saying throw 20 million law breakers in jail, but deporting them would be a fitting punishment. Afterwards, we can reform our immigration policies and they can re-apply to enter the country.
And you think this government is capable of doing all of that? They can't even agree on whether to confirm Appeals Court judges.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Van Buren, AR

#248 Nov 19, 2007
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>good they need the help send them where they belong, mexico.
I don't think the El Salvadorans will like it there. My bet is that you don't even know why I said that.

“'We The People'”

Since: Dec 06

Yeadon, PA

#249 Nov 19, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if the people who come truly are doing, as you said, what they 'have to do to survive', then that's fine with you, right?
I think it might be that you watch too much news, and probably biased cable news. No cities are being 'taken over'. Crime has been going down over the long-term and America's economy has been flourishing. Try to see the positive, and when you do see something negative don't look for the first person of color you see to blame it on.
Are you a racist? You seem to be insunuating that alot. Open your eyes or are you an illegal alien?

SGD

Since: Nov 07

Owings Mills, MD

#250 Nov 19, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
And you think this government is capable of doing all of that? They can't even agree on whether to confirm Appeals Court judges.
It's been done before by a strong president and we can do it again. It will take years to do, but it is far from being impossible. If we can deploy so many troops to the middle east is such a short amount of time, if we can deploy all of that equipment that fast, deporting 20+ million illegal aliens is far from an impossible task for us.

Hell, bring our troops home and rotate them into assisting border patrols and ICE agents. It will keep them active and much safer than Iraq.

“I love Canada”

Since: Aug 07

El Salvador

#251 Nov 19, 2007
I am so sorry I dissapointed you in my last post there El Chapin. Though you made some very good points, your condescending attitude is extremely irritating. I donīt know where you get the notion that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically wrong. Not everyone sees things the way you do and, despite what you think, their disagreement does not make them racist or wrong.
How dare you even imply that I am racist against my own people. It is completely ridiculous.
I am appalled that you think anyone would tolerate the idea of burning the American flag, just because they can. It goes against everything America stands for. If you go to any protests organized by illegals you would see more racism than shown in these forums. Illegals calling American citizens pigs and Hitler fanatics, just because they want their laws enforced. This kind of hostility only makes Americans angrier. Most people are simply just fed up with all the troubles illegals are bringing to the country. It is an issue of agressive massive immigration creating too many undesirable consequences. It has nothing to do with race. If you think that Americans are going to rejoice at the idea of granting amnesty to illegals who burn their flag and demand rights they are certainly not entitled to, you are quite frankly delusional.
I am quite aware that most are hard working and capable individuals who want a better life but it is not Americas obligation to grant them that.I know all too well the poverty most people leave behind and the struggles most face but it does not give them any right to break the laws and behave so blatantly.It is this attitude of entitlement and complete disregard for the american people and their laws which anyone
would find infuriating. I also have to disagree with you on the idea that ALL are willing to assimilate into American society, because as you put it yourself, there are too many businesses and
institutions catering to their cultural needs. The older ones in particular have a very difficult time with it.The negative impacts are not just happening in the US but south of the border as well. Families are broken up and children abandoned for the American Dream. Without any proper parental guidance these
children are lost to gang life. Human trafficking and women bieng sold into prostitution is something that happens daily.
I am not against immigration at all.I know that a legal low skilled labour force is needed, though that number has clearly been exceeded. I agree that the US needs to reform and enforce their immigration laws. I think the wall is a good idea but it will be useless unless the laws are, first of all, enforced from the inside.
I think America is at great risk of losing their country to foreign hands which do not respect or honour their laws and way of life.The illegal border crossing bieng only the first slap across the face. Every day hundreds of people
illegally immigrate north and it will only get worse if this is allowed to continue. As far as Mexico gaining a flourishing and better economy, and bieng resentful towards America, it is not far fetched though completely ridiculous. The idea that they would be so ungrateful as to not recognize why their economy is better to begin with, would be the last straw. With all the illegals the US is giving a generous and wonderful education to, and all the work opportunities it continues to provide,
resulting in massive amounts of money heading south, nobody should even dream of complaining.

“Enforce our Immigration Laws!”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#252 Nov 20, 2007
Legal Immigrant wrote:
I am so sorry I dissapointed you in my last post there El Chapin. Though you made some very good points, your condescending attitude is extremely irritating. I donīt know where you get the notion that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically wrong. Not everyone sees things the way you do and, despite what you think, their disagreement does not make them racist or wrong.
How dare you even imply that I am racist against my own people. It is completely ridiculous.
I am appalled that you think anyone would tolerate the idea of burning the American flag, just because they can. It goes against everything America stands for. If you go to any protests organized by illegals you would see more racism than shown in these forums. Illegals calling American citizens pigs and Hitler fanatics, just because they want their laws enforced. This kind of hostility only makes Americans angrier. Most people are simply just fed up with all the troubles illegals are bringing to the country. It is an issue of agressive massive immigration creating too many undesirable consequences. It has nothing to do with race. If you think that Americans are going to rejoice at the idea of granting amnesty to illegals who burn their flag and demand rights they are certainly not entitled to, you are quite frankly delusional.
I am quite aware that most are hard working and capable individuals who want a better life but it is not Americas obligation to grant them that.I know all too well the poverty most people leave behind and the struggles most face but it does not give them any right to break the laws and behave so blatantly.It is this attitude of entitlement and complete disregard for the american people and their laws which anyone
would find infuriating. I also have to disagree with you on the idea that ALL are willing to assimilate into American society, because as you put it yourself, there are too many businesses and
institutions catering to their cultural needs. The older ones in particular have a very difficult time with it.The negative impacts are not just happening in the US but south of the border as well. Families are broken up and children abandoned for the American Dream. Without any proper parental guidance these
children are lost to gang life. Human trafficking and women bieng sold into prostitution is something that happens daily.
I am not against immigration at all.I know that a legal low skilled labour force is needed, though that number has clearly been exceeded. I agree that the US needs to reform and enforce their immigration laws. I think the wall is a good idea but it will be useless unless the laws are, first of all, enforced from the inside.
I think America is at great risk of losing their country to foreign hands which do not respect or honour their laws and way of life.The illegal border crossing bieng only the first slap across the face. Every day hundreds of people
illegally immigrate north and it will only get worse if this is allowed to continue. As far as Mexico gaining a flourishing and better economy, and bieng resentful towards America, it is not far fetched though completely ridiculous. The idea that they would be so ungrateful as to not recognize why their economy is better to begin with, would be the last straw. With all the illegals the US is giving a generous and wonderful education to, and all the work opportunities it continues to provide,
resulting in massive amounts of money heading south, nobody should even dream of complaining.
Legal Immigrant,I applaud you for your honesty,and for putting el_chapin in his place.
This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time.You've explained how myself and most Americans feel about our country being over run with illegal aliens very eloquently,and to the point.I agree with you 100%,and thank you for your comments.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#253 Nov 20, 2007
rojopa wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you a racist? You seem to be insunuating that alot. Open your eyes or are you an illegal alien?
And which race am I against? I don't expect an answer. For some reason, people never answer that question.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#254 Nov 20, 2007
SGD wrote:
<quoted text>
It's been done before by a strong president and we can do it again. It will take years to do, but it is far from being impossible. If we can deploy so many troops to the middle east is such a short amount of time, if we can deploy all of that equipment that fast, deporting 20+ million illegal aliens is far from an impossible task for us.
Hell, bring our troops home and rotate them into assisting border patrols and ICE agents. It will keep them active and much safer than Iraq.
Instead of giving a sarcastic answer, let me ask you this. Do you seriously think something like this could ever happen? Seriously. What would they do, go door to door like in Germany and pull out Hispanics and question them? I can't believe that anyone truly thinks anything like that could ever happen in this day and age, but I want to know your opinion.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#255 Nov 20, 2007
Legal Immigrant wrote:
I am so sorry I dissapointed you in my last post there El Chapin. Though you made some very good points, your condescending attitude is extremely irritating. I donīt know where you get the notion that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically wrong. Not everyone sees things the way you do and, despite what you think, their disagreement does not make them racist or wrong.
Response, part 1:
I'll start by saying that I find your statements quite ironic. The mere fact that you characterize my posts as 'condescending' while speaking of 'illegals' and all Hispanics in general the way you do while claiming to have no racial bias shows an unmatched level of hypocrisy.
I don't automatically agree or disagree with any post. I read it and decide based on its merits whether I want to respond. You must understand we think about this issue very differently, so I will disagree about much of what you say. As for me calling people racists, feel free to point out one time when I have done so that I was wrong. I always give reasons, and they are always justified. You made the assumption that the people burning the flag at the protests were 'illegals'. You have no way of knowing that. Surely, someone in your position would realize the dangers of assuming anything based on race or skin color.
I was at some of the marches. I saw no flag burning, just many people gathered peacefully to show solidarity and defeat the Sensenbrenner bill. I saw many people of color, but I don't know how many were in the country 'legally' and how many were not. By the age of some, and by talking to them, I would guess that they were the US citizen children of immigrants, as were the ones I saw on Lou Dobbs' show burning a flag.
Speaking of burning the flag, you said that you believe it 'goes against everything America stands for'. I couldn't disagree more. We don't live in Venezuela, where political protest is met with a baton and jail time. We have a right to express ourselves, no matter the heinous manner in which some choose to do it. I don't like to see a flag burned, or a KKK magazine published, or a mud-slinging political television ad, but I know that were it not for the ability to protest policies and government corruption, we would not have the great country we do today. My problem isn't with the fact that you don't like to see the flag burned, but with the fact that you assumed something about the people doing it based merely on skin color. You also say that 'illegals' call Americans names at the protests, and I'm curious as to how you know the ones saying it are 'illegals'. Also, though I never defend racism and oppose it at every opportunity, one must realize that there is a big difference between members of an oppressive majority victimizing a minority and a small group of that minority doing the same in response. Here's an example. Many during the civil rights struggles went on television and used racist statements made by the Black Panthers to say,'See? They're racists, too.' But, in the grand scheme of things, does that justify all that was done to African Americans during that time?

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#256 Nov 20, 2007
Legal Immigrant wrote:
I am so sorry I dissapointed you in my last post there El Chapin. Though you made some very good points, your condescending attitude is extremely irritating. I donīt know where you get the notion that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically wrong. Not everyone sees things the way you do and, despite what you think, their disagreement does not make them racist or wrong.
Response, part 2.

I also disagree with your assertion that most people who are against the 'illegals' hold this position not based on race. If you've read these forums, you would know that if many here saw you on the street, they would assume you are associated with MS-13. Many cable news programs have stirred up feelings of hate and fear, and it's a little like a perfect storm. The people who are blatantly, overtly racist can blend right in with little old ladies and their husbands and hide behind the fact that they are merely patriots who want our borders protected.

Speaking of condescending, I like your statement that 'illegals' feel a sense of entitlement. There is no group of people on the planet who have a larger sense of entitlement than Americans. We're free to go to any country in the world, usually with no questions asked. Can a poor young man living in Metapan do that? If a country won't bow to our will, we either invade it or break it financially. While I think there is no country that has done more good in the world than this one, I don't like the way right-wing extremist media figures have caused people to think we should change to being nativist, isolationist, and xenophobic.

I've already said this before, but it bears repeating. Don't scream at the top of your lungs that you hate someone and that they're not welcome, and then complain in the media that they are not assimilating.
illegal - not

Los Angeles, CA

#257 Nov 20, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
Response, part 2.
I also disagree with your assertion that most people who are against the 'illegals' hold this position not based on race. If you've read these forums, you would know that if many here saw you on the street, they would assume you are associated with MS-13. Many cable news programs have stirred up feelings of hate and fear, and it's a little like a perfect storm. The people who are blatantly, overtly racist can blend right in with little old ladies and their husbands and hide behind the fact that they are merely patriots who want our borders protected.
Speaking of condescending, I like your statement that 'illegals' feel a sense of entitlement. There is no group of people on the planet who have a larger sense of entitlement than Americans. We're free to go to any country in the world, usually with no questions asked. Can a poor young man living in Metapan do that? If a country won't bow to our will, we either invade it or break it financially. While I think there is no country that has done more good in the world than this one, I don't like the way right-wing extremist media figures have caused people to think we should change to being nativist, isolationist, and xenophobic.
I've already said this before, but it bears repeating. Don't scream at the top of your lungs that you hate someone and that they're not welcome, and then complain in the media that they are not assimilating.
I'll be condescending and racist in one shot-you stupid illegal supporter. Simple-done. YOU ARE AN IDIOT. You are exactly the reason there is so much hate toward the issue. You support an intollerable group who are being forced out and your desperation is coming through. Troll no more.
msbobbie

Gray, GA

#258 Nov 20, 2007
BorderDrama wrote:
Not a single candidate of either party has advocated DEPORTATION of illegal aliens as required by 8 USC 1251.
Not a single law-breaking, welfare-grifting illegal alien should be given amnesty. They should all be deported and told to apply for residence through legal channels.
Yes, we can deport all of them, but we won't have to. Once they see we mean business, they'll deport themselves as they did during the Task Force of 1954 when Eisenhower and his Commissioner, Gen. Joseph Swing began their mop up campaign.
Our sovereignty, our culture and our language is hanging in the balance. Communists and left-wing activists have the hordes of barbarians believeing they have a RIGHT to come here illegally. Another amnesty will be the death of America as we have known it. All past amnesties have have led to more liberal amnesties. Much damage has already been done, but we can still save the best part of our country. At least 95% of aliens who have been legalized over the past sixty years, and their descendants, cannot read, write and speak English at the 5th grade level. They take more from our economy than they put into it, a well docmuented fact.
You have not been following the campaigns very closely... or maybe you are just following the Democrat campaigns.

Tom Tancredo entered the campaign on the issue of securing the borders and controlling illegal immigration on April 2, 2007 because no other candidate had made it a part of their campaign. He has been fighting for these issues since he entered the House of Representatives in January 1999. He WILL secure the borders and instruct the Justice department to enforce the laws already on the books regarding employing illegals and harboring illegals. Most will go home on their own if they cannot get a job and do not have a place to live. He has said time and time again he would deport those who did not leave on their own.

NO OTHER CANDIDATE talked about illegal immigration until grassroots America shut down Capitol Hill to prevent that reform bill from passing the end of June. Ron Paul has not made it a part of his campaign. Ron Paul's message is 'It is the Constitution (stupid!).

If you want your country back; your borders secured, illegal immigration controlled, and decent wages your only option in this campaign is Tom Tancredo.

SGD

Since: Nov 07

Owings Mills, MD

#259 Nov 20, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
Instead of giving a sarcastic answer, let me ask you this. Do you seriously think something like this could ever happen? Seriously. What would they do, go door to door like in Germany and pull out Hispanics and question them? I can't believe that anyone truly thinks anything like that could ever happen in this day and age, but I want to know your opinion.
I think you have some issues that we don't need to go into because I was not being sarcastic. But I'll take up your challenge and answer you.

First off, we can do city sweeps. We start with the businesses, demaning proof of citizenship of their employees. Any business that fails to comply loses its license. Follow that up with raiding businesses that are hiring illegals. Next we go to the apartment complexes and ask for the same, any complex that does not comply recieves a severe fine and possible jail time for the apartment manager. Raid the complexes then for any illegals known. Pretty much do what we have been doing, just take it up a notch.

On top of that, require all children who are to be enrolled in schools to have SS #'s. Any child that does not have one and can not obtain one will be unable to go to our schools. Parents of said child should then be interviewed to determine their immigration status. Also, any child found out of school in the streets during a school day during school hours should be detained until such time as their parents are located at which point the parents will be interviewed to determine their citizenship. Empty out our prisoners of all illegal aliens. They should all be deported to their native lands.
John Valle

United States

#260 Nov 20, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
Was one of them Lou Dobbs? I say that tongue-in-cheek, but that man does more harm to America than any war. I sometimes turn on his show or visit his website just to see which country or ethnicity is his newest target.
Did you know Dobbs' wife is from Mexico ? I can relate in some ways to Dobbs' personal experience: Although I didn't work in the fields with illegal aliens the way he did as a high school kid (and through college), I worked in the construction trades and saw many 2nd and 3rd generation tradespersons displaced by huge wage and job competition.

It really was a drag seeing these proud tradesmen who had provided a good living for their families either move to another part of the country where they thought illegal immigration had not yet taken over skilled construction trades, or simply "throw in the towel" (on working at their trade) and go to work at Home Depot or Best Buy, since illegal immigrants had taken their $25/hr jobs and drove them down to $8-9 per hour.

You know something is wrong when 2nd and 3rd generation skilled tradesmen go to work at Best Buy and Home Depot.

SGD

Since: Nov 07

Parkton, MD

#261 Nov 20, 2007
John Valle wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you know Dobbs' wife is from Mexico ? I can relate in some ways to Dobbs' personal experience: Although I didn't work in the fields with illegal aliens the way he did as a high school kid (and through college), I worked in the construction trades and saw many 2nd and 3rd generation tradespersons displaced by huge wage and job competition.
It really was a drag seeing these proud tradesmen who had provided a good living for their families either move to another part of the country where they thought illegal immigration had not yet taken over skilled construction trades, or simply "throw in the towel" (on working at their trade) and go to work at Home Depot or Best Buy, since illegal immigrants had taken their $25/hr jobs and drove them down to $8-9 per hour.
You know something is wrong when 2nd and 3rd generation skilled tradesmen go to work at Best Buy and Home Depot.
Kinda strange that the construction wages have gone down, but the construction work has gone up in price isn't it? I wonder where all that extra money is going?

It's like this everywhere. People think it's just "unskilled" labor, but it's not. Its moving into more and more different fields of work. First it was in the fields in farms, then in cleaning services, then construction, and next its your job.
John Valle

Bellflower, CA

#263 Nov 21, 2007
SGD wrote:
<quoted text>
Kinda strange that the construction wages have gone down, but the construction work has gone up in price isn't it? I wonder where all that extra money is going?
It's like this everywhere. People think it's just "unskilled" labor, but it's not. Its moving into more and more different fields of work. First it was in the fields in farms, then in cleaning services, then construction, and next its your job.
We see the same thing in occupational trades such as machinist, semi-truck driving, landscaping (which was always considered an artistic building trade and required an apprenticeship leading to journeyman status and good income), auto mechanics, and you're right, numerous other trades and occupational fields that are not unskilled (agricultural fieldwork), but are, rather, displacing the skilled working American socioeconomically.

“'We The People'”

Since: Dec 06

Yeadon, PA

#264 Nov 21, 2007
el_chapin wrote:
<quoted text>
And which race am I against? I don't expect an answer. For some reason, people never answer that question.
But yet if one is against illegal aliens then you consider them racist. What's up with that?

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#265 Nov 21, 2007
illegal - not wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be condescending and racist in one shot-you stupid illegal supporter. Simple-done. YOU ARE AN IDIOT. You are exactly the reason there is so much hate toward the issue. You support an intollerable group who are being forced out and your desperation is coming through. Troll no more.
Being forced out? Desperation? Maybe I don't live where you live, but I see nothing but the status quo.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#266 Nov 21, 2007
msbobbie wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not been following the campaigns very closely... or maybe you are just following the Democrat campaigns.
Tom Tancredo entered the campaign on the issue of securing the borders and controlling illegal immigration on April 2, 2007 because no other candidate had made it a part of their campaign. He has been fighting for these issues since he entered the House of Representatives in January 1999. He WILL secure the borders and instruct the Justice department to enforce the laws already on the books regarding employing illegals and harboring illegals. Most will go home on their own if they cannot get a job and do not have a place to live. He has said time and time again he would deport those who did not leave on their own.
NO OTHER CANDIDATE talked about illegal immigration until grassroots America shut down Capitol Hill to prevent that reform bill from passing the end of June. Ron Paul has not made it a part of his campaign. Ron Paul's message is 'It is the Constitution (stupid!).
If you want your country back; your borders secured, illegal immigration controlled, and decent wages your only option in this campaign is Tom Tancredo.
He's the candidate that pushes fear. Last I checked his poll numbers were in the low single digits. He's a joke in the campaign, just watch the debates where the audience laughs each time he's asked a question and starts beating the same old anti-immigrant drum.

“I Still Believe In Heroes”

Since: Dec 06

Fort Smith, AR

#267 Nov 21, 2007
SGD wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have some issues that we don't need to go into because I was not being sarcastic. But I'll take up your challenge and answer you.
First off, we can do city sweeps. We start with the businesses, demaning proof of citizenship of their employees. Any business that fails to comply loses its license. Follow that up with raiding businesses that are hiring illegals. Next we go to the apartment complexes and ask for the same, any complex that does not comply recieves a severe fine and possible jail time for the apartment manager. Raid the complexes then for any illegals known. Pretty much do what we have been doing, just take it up a notch.
On top of that, require all children who are to be enrolled in schools to have SS #'s. Any child that does not have one and can not obtain one will be unable to go to our schools. Parents of said child should then be interviewed to determine their immigration status. Also, any child found out of school in the streets during a school day during school hours should be detained until such time as their parents are located at which point the parents will be interviewed to determine their citizenship. Empty out our prisoners of all illegal aliens. They should all be deported to their native lands.
Like I've said, I actually like people with extreme views like you. I think you should call every television station and request to be interviewed about your views on this an all issues. Write to your local paper and share your thoughts. Keep posting here, we really need these sorts of insights into your side of the arguments.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Mike Huckabee Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... (Oct '14) 1 hr thetruth 7,436
News Huckabee: I would ask Clinton about Benghazi 5 hr mjjcpa 196
News Huckabee defends Josh Duggar molesting sisters:... 8 hr Tazo 47
News This Isn't The First Time Mike Huckabee Has Sid... 16 hr swedenforever 8
News Why The Duggar Story Matters 17 hr Tazo 7
News Josh Duggar and the left's schadenfreude Tue Tazo 11
News Huckabee likens gay marriage to incest, polygamy (Apr '10) Tue Tazo 1,920
More from around the web