persephone

Sunnyvale, CA

#1594 Sep 19, 2013
Len is Disgusted wrote:
<quoted text>
The police had the proper search warrants to enter the home of man under criminal investigation and seizing evidence. Do you want me to post the links? There is quite a bit of correspondence about this. I'd be happy to do so if you want to.
Give up making excuses.
Very little of what was seized ever amounted to being useful as 'evidence'. Considering the vast number of search warrants which were doled out, there was very little useful 'evidence' which was ever uncovered.

Stop deluding yourself that nobody else knows anything about the case but you.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#1595 Sep 19, 2013
MJFRIEND wrote:
LEN, IVE READ THE COURT DOCUMENTS. IVE READ THE LIST OF ITEMS THAT WERE TAKEN FROM JACKSONS HOME , I KNOW ABOUT THE UNDERWEAR, SHEETS, MATTRESS ETC..........ITS THE SAME ITEMS AND COURT DOCUMENTS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. STOP SHIVERING LIKE A CARTOON CHARACTER, AND COME OUT FROM HIDING BEHIND THE "COURT DOCUMENTS " AND START.........DEBATING! YOU AND NfL fan never debate you just list things and he only heckles.
You seem to lack the ability to comprehend the reasons why these documents and links are given. They are used to support a claim, something which you fail to do. This is what you are supposed to do in a debate. You cannot even grasp the context of why these documents are used which is an obvious reason why you still believe MJ is innocent.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#1596 Sep 19, 2013
persephone wrote:
<quoted text> Very little of what was seized ever amounted to being useful as 'evidence'. Considering the vast number of search warrants which were doled out, there was very little useful 'evidence' which was ever uncovered.
Stop deluding yourself that nobody else knows anything about the case but you.
They are not considered useful since they did not directly prove MJ molested the boy in question. It does however further prove MJ had an unhealthy obsession with boys and spreads a layer of doubt to those who believe MJ was attracted to women.
persephone

Sunnyvale, CA

#1597 Sep 19, 2013
Pishpash1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
They are not considered useful since they did not directly prove MJ molested the boy in question. It does however further prove MJ had an unhealthy obsession with boys and spreads a layer of doubt to those who believe MJ was attracted to women.
The large amount of straight hetero porn he had in the privacy of his own bedroom/bathroom (which was discovered long after the Arvizos had left, indicating that he obviously enjoyed viewing such material for his own personal enjoyment), which puts quite a dent in the 'grooming' theory of his having such material.
persephone

Sunnyvale, CA

#1598 Sep 19, 2013
Pishpash1234 wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to lack the ability to comprehend the reasons why these documents and links are given. They are used to support a claim, something which you fail to do. This is what you are supposed to do in a debate. You cannot even grasp the context of why these documents are used which is an obvious reason why you still believe MJ is innocent.
Stop accusing the opposition of ignorance or lack of comprehension when it's your argument that is suffering because none of the materials seized were of any importance to the case.

“Brevity is the soule of wit”

Since: May 09

USA

#1600 Sep 19, 2013
persephony wrote:
<quoted text>suffering because none of the materials seized were of any importance to the case.
Back to the courtroom, Jugsy? You must feel so at home there.
persephone

Sunnyvale, CA

#1601 Sep 19, 2013
MJFRIEND wrote:
Pishpash , yes i believe michael used poor judgement when inviting families with children to his home . I WISH he did not get so close to them., but he trusted too many people. IN HIS MIND NOTHING WAS wrong with children being in his condo or watching a movie and falling asleep on his bed with the parent in the room or the room down the hall.. His poor judgement is that he did not understand how this would appear to other people. HIS mind was not sexual with children.
I agree--it would have been so much better if he had maintained a certain distance from people. I think he was so comfortable with being around boys because of his own upbringing and all his brothers, that it simply didn't occur to him that anyone would ever see anything sexual or inappropriate about it.

People are incredibly weird and strange about some things. Like holding hands, for instance. It is possible to hold hands without there being anything sexual about it.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#1603 Sep 19, 2013
MJFRIEND wrote:
Pishpash , yes i believe michael used poor judgement when inviting families with children to his home . I WISH he did not get so close to them., but he trusted too many people. IN HIS MIND NOTHING WAS wrong with children being in his condo or watching a movie and falling asleep on his bed with the parent in the room or the room down the hall.. His poor judgement is that he did not understand how this would appear to other people. HIS mind was not sexual with children.
Is this your way of condemning MJ? Using petty compliments disguised as a criticism? Every MJ fan I have spoken to use the same backward-compliments, which proves they cannot say one negative word against MJ.

Let me ask if you find it inappropriate for a grown man to invite a young boy into his bedroom at 1:15am?

Do you also find it strange and questionable that a grown man would beg the parent of a boy to sleep in the same room as him?

Do you think its inappropriate for a grown man to own a photograph of a nude boy whom he spent hundreds of nights with?

“Why can't you share your bed?”

Since: May 13

Canada

#1605 Sep 20, 2013
persephone wrote:
<quoted text>I agree--it would have been so much better if he had maintained a certain distance from people. I think he was so comfortable with being around boys because of his own upbringing and all his brothers, that it simply didn't occur to him that anyone would ever see anything sexual or inappropriate about it.

People are incredibly weird and strange about some things. Like holding hands, for instance. It is possible to hold hands without there being anything sexual about it.
Michael wasn't nice. He had a compulsion to children. Pedophiles don't change, they just change victims. Some pedophiles can serve as long as 15 years in prison for child rape, but at the end of the sentence the urge to rape a child is still there.
rosalinda de la quatch

Sweden

#1606 Sep 20, 2013
persephone wrote:
<quoted text> The large amount of straight hetero porn he had in the privacy of his own bedroom/bathroom (which was discovered long after the Arvizos had left, indicating that he obviously enjoyed viewing such material for his own personal enjoyment), which puts quite a dent in the 'grooming' theory of his having such material.
I'm not sure that this is making much sense -- yes? Are you saying between the very short period where the young boy made allegations about the suspicious MJ -- the suspicious MJ ordered a bucket load of pornography and had a massive wankathon -- before the heroes of your country came and searched and seized belongings from his socalled child friendly home -- yes?

I think this is another completely stupid and ignorant reply for the sake of a deceased celebrity from yourself -- correct? Pornography was found in locations that the young boy described to the police -- correct?

Also -- have you done the usual courtroom Judge Judy treatment on his pornography collection --? Have you searched every piece of pornographic material found in the suspicious home of the suspicious individual that was called MJ and had it dated --?

Also -- I know you are completely ignorant -- but it is a known fact which has been collected over decades and decades of investigations from all police forces across the world that pedophiles often use porn for the purpose of grooming -- correct?

Also -- the suspicious MJ didn't just have heterosexual pornography he also had a collection of shemale and gay material -- correct? Maybe MJ only had a interest in the shemale and gay material and the heterosexual stuff was for the purpose of grooming -- yes?

Also -- if your claim is true -- it only proves that the suspicious MJ owned a huge amount of pornography and went through it like an old age pensioner goes through teabags -- correct? It doesn't support the claim that MJ was just a misunderstood individual who was a man trapped in a child's body -- yes?

The truth is according to yourself -- Michael Jackson was an obsessed pornography collector and his socalled child friendly home was nothing more than a giant pornography store -- correct?
rosalinda de la quatch

Sweden

#1607 Sep 20, 2013
persephone wrote:
<quoted text> The large amount of straight hetero porn he had in the privacy of his own bedroom/bathroom (which was discovered long after the Arvizos had left.
Also -- persephone -- you claim MJs humongous amount of pornography was found in his private bedroom and private bathroom but this was the very same bedroom and bathroom that MJ was taking unrelated young boys to bed with him for possibly thousands of nights -- correct?

So -- in your very own words -- MJ was basically taking young children into a room which was absolutely bursting at the seams with pornographic material -- Correct?
rosalinda de la quatch

Sweden

#1608 Sep 20, 2013
persephone wrote:
<quoted text> Very little of what was seized ever amounted to being useful as 'evidence'. Considering the vast number of search warrants which were doled out, there was very little useful 'evidence' which was ever uncovered.
Stop deluding yourself that nobody else knows anything about the case but you.
That is your celebrity worshiping opinion as you have offered no argument or listed material that is often found in the homes of pedophiles -- correct?

The heroes of your country -- people have decades of experience clearly thought that the material they had seized was sufficient enough to proceed with a criminal trial -- correct? That speaks for itself -- yes?

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#1609 Sep 20, 2013
MJFRIEND wrote:
Pishpash , you try to paint a picture of michael begging parents , calling parents to bring their children to him, and that the child is somewhere in a stoic stance unaware of what,s going on.. Did it ever occur to you that it was wade begging his mother to take him to see jackson ? This makes more sense doesn,t it? CHILDREN wanted to be with jackson all the time .It is the kids who asked michael and begged their parents to stay with michael. Children loved him.
Well your point is null since it was MJ who called Joy Robson to have her drive to Neverland in the middle of the night. That is irresponsible and suspicious.

MJ also spent an abnormal amount of time persuading June Chandler to sleep in the same room as Jordan. That to me sounds like MJ wanted it just as much as the kids did. Of course kids want to be with MJ, but it was MJ's responsibility to make the appropriate decision.
FOREVER MICHAEL

London, UK

#1610 Sep 20, 2013
Here we go again..thinking you know everything about MJ. You dont know anything about him.only what you read in the paper garbadge and false

If Michael was here he would say you dont know me..I dont know you so beat it

Michael was a wondetful caring man. Just a good man..I would trust Michael with my life so I will forever fight for him and defend him

Michael is a man like any other man .what man hasnt got these mags...and what he does in his privacy is up to him..not anybody else

Michael was a child at heart.he lost out on his childhood..thats all it was he could trust them they would not Judge him..he was the same with animals..

Michael gave up his time to help people..and care for people...Michael is L.O.V.E he helped so many charitys across the world.he was such a good man

Michael is my guardian angel and I love him so much
Michael Jackson I Love you with all my heart
My sweet Angel

“Brevity is the soule of wit”

Since: May 09

USA

#1612 Sep 20, 2013
MJFREAK wrote:
My fingers are crossed..........im holding my 69. A 4 RECORDING STUDIOS , MIAMI, NY , LA AND IRELAND ,
So what?

“at yet more f'loonspin”

Since: Aug 11

I live far away from f'loons

#1614 Sep 21, 2013
persephone wrote:
<quoted text> The large amount of straight hetero porn he had in the privacy of his own bedroom/bathroom (which was discovered long after the Arvizos had left, indicating that he obviously enjoyed viewing such material for his own personal enjoyment), which puts quite a dent in the 'grooming' theory of his having such material.
Michael's boatload of porn was there to groom children. Per Kenneth Lanning, it's common for pedophiles to leave that material where children can discover it, such as in the bathroom and bedroom where they spent "quality" time alone with Michael.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications...

He had both heterosexual and homosexual porn and erotica, all for grooming children. The officer who analyzed it gave quite a description. Start with page 64, of this set of legal documents.

http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/0...

Start with page 1, of this set of legal documents.

http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/0...

I am curious about something. One of the homoerotic book was called "Scenes D'Interieur." It contained photos of nude and seminude women, in BDSM poses. If that is how Michael perceived women, would you honestly want THAT view of women handed down to children? The book is briefly described on page 2.

http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/0...

“at yet more f'loonspin”

Since: Aug 11

I live far away from f'loons

#1615 Sep 21, 2013
FOREVER MICHAEL wrote:
what he does in his privacy is up to him..not anybody else
What he did with little boys WAS not up to him. It was against the law.

“at yet more f'loonspin”

Since: Aug 11

I live far away from f'loons

#1616 Sep 21, 2013
MJFRIEND wrote:
Pishpash , you try to paint a picture of michael begging parents , calling parents to bring their children to him, and that the child is somewhere in a stoic stance unaware of what,s going on.. Did it ever occur to you that it was wade begging his mother to take him to see jackson ? This makes more sense doesn,t it? CHILDREN wanted to be with jackson all the time .It is the kids who asked michael and begged their parents to stay with michael. Children loved him.
How dare you blame the victim. At 1:30 in the morning, I suspect Wade was asleep, in bed. Even if a child begged to sleep with Michael, it was still Michael's responsibility to exercise responsibility.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#1618 Sep 22, 2013
MJFRIEND wrote:
Pishpash, again, you,re creating a scene in your mind regarding joy bringing wade to michaels. YOU weren't there. YOU do not know the conversation, the returning of calls, etc. Stop making things up in your head, regarding wade going to michaels in the middle of the night . AGAIN regarding the porn mags......whipee......have you seen the inside of a male college dorm lately? WAS michael charged with owning child porn?
You are really slow.. The context in which Joy mentioned being called up by Michael made it very clear it was to have them drive over to Neverland in the middle of the night. The prosecutor would not have mentioned it otherwise... The prosecutor has to be as objective as he can.

MJ had a strange VARIETY of porn from Gay to Straight and to other material. They were scattered around Neverland for children to fine like Len said. It fits the actions of a common child groomer.
Rickey Bobby

North Kingstown, RI

#1619 Sep 22, 2013
FOREVER IDIODICK wrote:
Here we go again..thinking you know everything about MJ. You dont know anything about him.only what you read in the paper garbadge and false
If Michael was here he would say you dont know me..I dont know you so beat it
Michael is a man like any other man .what man hasnt got these mags...and what he does in his privacy is up to him..not anybody else
Michael was a child at heart.he lost out on his childhood..thats all it was he could trust them they would not Judge him..he was the same with animals..
Michael gave up his time to help people..and care for people...Michael is L.O.V.E he helped so many charitys across the world.he was such a good man
Michael is my guardian angel and I love him so much
Michael Jackson I Love you with all my heart
My sweet Angel
You also only know what you read about him in the magazines, internet and books that are out there for the public. You had no special insight into Jackson. You knew him personally, no better than anyone else on this forum.

I, for one, can say there are no pornography books/magazines in my house. I don't need them. Jackson, with his two sham marraiges, and his grooming techniques (well under way in the 80's and 90's )needed them. Which ones he preferred, I can only guess. Probably the boy or gay ones, since there were no women around. You can only guess too, because you never knew him.

Oh, and as far as charities go, his Heal the World Fdn went under under his trusteeship after only distributing a couple million dollars, which is about a tenth of one percent of what he was worth at the time. Percentage wise, that means almost everyone gives more to charity than he did.

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