Kenneth Miller Convicted In Miller-Jenkins Case

Aug 14, 2012 Full story: lezgetreal.com 25

Mennonite pastor Kenneth Miller of Virginia has been convicted of helping Lisa Miller- no relation- flee the United States in order to prevent her former partner, Janet Jenkins, from having custody of their daughter Isabella.

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“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#1 Aug 14, 2012
He should be in prison until at least she gets her daughter back.

KIDNAPPING is a HEINOUS CRIME that there is NEVER justification for.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#2 Aug 14, 2012
Good, except that filthy little coward Lisa is still running free, letting the rev take the heat. God, what a LOW creeping little reptile she is.
Pam

Grove City, PA

#3 Aug 14, 2012
Lisa Miller is a wonderful example of how far a mother will go to protect her child. I have nothing but admiration for her. I suspect that most of the people commenting on how vile she is and calling her a criminal have never given birth to a child. And that includes Janet Jenkins, who would have dropped this long ago if she really loved the child. Jenkins' actions are the ones that forced this exile. She purused her own selfish interests with no care, apparently, about what the child was going through. I hope that one day Lisa will write a book about this ordeal and that that book will discourage the act of bringing children into a same-sex relationship.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#4 Aug 14, 2012
Among the various anabaptist sects, Mennonites aren't really a bad sort. Just simple in their beliefs, and somewhat rigid. Not firebreathers.

They make very nice, if boring, neighbors.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#5 Aug 14, 2012
Pam wrote:
Lisa Miller is a wonderful example of how far a mother will go to protect her child. I have nothing but admiration for her. I suspect that most of the people commenting on how vile she is and calling her a criminal have never given birth to a child. And that includes Janet Jenkins, who would have dropped this long ago if she really loved the child. Jenkins' actions are the ones that forced this exile. She purused her own selfish interests with no care, apparently, about what the child was going through. I hope that one day Lisa will write a book about this ordeal and that that book will discourage the act of bringing children into a same-sex relationship.
The New Testament commands people to obey the civil authorities.

So you admit you have NO RESPECT for the law !

:)
Pam

Grove City, PA

#6 Aug 14, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
The New Testament commands people to obey the civil authorities.
So you admit you have NO RESPECT for the law !
:)
I have respect for the law. I had much less respect for those who use their positions to put their own twist and interpretation on it, i.e. an activist judge who puts his own spin on the law in order to recognize a "gay marriage" in a state where there is no such thing. That judge made himself THE LAW. This whole thing is wrong, from the beginnings of the women's relationship to the verdict rendered for the pastor. The only things right in it are Lisa Miller's decisions to become a Christian, then endeavoring to protect her child at all costs, and the people who resolved to selflessly help her. Those people are heroes and noble beyond imagination. There is nothing noble and admirable in any action done by Janet Jenkins.

Again, the ones who can understand Lisa's feelings are those who have given birth to a child. Nobody else can. And if you've given birth to a child and still claim that she was wrong, then you clearly have political motivations ahead of the love for your own children. Your priorities are really screwed up.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#7 Aug 14, 2012
snyper wrote:
Among the various anabaptist sects, Mennonites aren't really a bad sort. Just simple in their beliefs, and somewhat rigid. Not firebreathers.
They make very nice, if boring, neighbors.
Miller is actually a Beachy Amish-Mennonite, one of the smaller splinter sects that have separated from from the more familiar Anabaptist groups over the years over doctrinal issues. They're Amish in name only but more conservative than the Mennonites most people are familiar with, which is why they probably got involved in offering Miller protection.
Pam

Grove City, PA

#8 Aug 14, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
The New Testament commands people to obey the civil authorities.
So you admit you have NO RESPECT for the law !
:)
This passage instructs us that God's laws override man's laws, especially when civil laws do not reflect God's laws.

27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28 saying,“We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you fintend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29 But Peter and the apostles answered,“We must obey God rather than men."

Absolutely nothing demonstrates man's laws contradicting God's laws like this whole homosexual issue. God's law forbids homosexual activity. Increasingly civil laws thumb their noses at God's laws. Thank God there are still people with the morality and the fortitude to stand up for God's laws even in the face of civil condemnation. Reminds me of Mr. Cathy asking who do we think we are that we believe we know what a marriage is more than God does. There is a word for the arrogance of men who think they know better than God - hubris (arrogance that usually leads to ruin).

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9 Aug 14, 2012
Pam wrote:
I have respect for the law...
How can you claim "respect" for the law when you display this much ignorance of it. Miller and Jenkins entered into what was then a civil union. They planned for this child as a couple and gave birth to her in a state which automatically conferred parental rights to the non-biological parent. They raised this child as a couple until their relationship fell apart and when it did, it was Miller who proposed the custodial and visitation agreement which was accepted by Jenkins. No one imposed anything on them. It was Miller's political motivations which began this problem by seeking multiple times to abrogate her own agreement through repeatedly filing suit in a state which she believed would void Jenkins legal parental rights as established in Vermont. Her decision to become a "Christian" was nothing more than another cynical ploy to win backing and free legal representation for her cause. The decision which was reached on her own visitation agreement in Vermont was, according to the law you claim to respect, the last word on the subject unless it could be proved that her former partner was an unfit parent. She tried that route in both Vermont and Virginia and failed miserably. She proved herself to be an unfit custodial parent, no one did that to her. She was given chance after chance to live up to her own agreement but she refused. She isn't doing this out of love for their daughter, but out of some of the ugliest selfishness to come down the pike in ages, but since she wrapped it up in the mantle of "Christianity" you refuse to see the truth. Pastor Miller has involved himself in her criminal act and now must pay the price for his own poor judgment. The only way that justice will be served is if their daughter is brought back to this country and the woman who gave birth to her (she lost any right to be considered her mother years ago) finally pays the price for the damage she has intentionally inflicted on everyone involved. I'd tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself, but you make it painfully obvious that you have none to feel.

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#10 Aug 14, 2012
Pam wrote:
<quoted text>
This passage instructs us that God's laws override man's laws, especially when civil laws do not reflect God's laws.
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28 saying,“We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you fintend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29 But Peter and the apostles answered,“We must obey God rather than men."
Absolutely nothing demonstrates man's laws contradicting God's laws like this whole homosexual issue. God's law forbids homosexual activity. Increasingly civil laws thumb their noses at God's laws. Thank God there are still people with the morality and the fortitude to stand up for God's laws even in the face of civil condemnation. Reminds me of Mr. Cathy asking who do we think we are that we believe we know what a marriage is more than God does. There is a word for the arrogance of men who think they know better than God - hubris (arrogance that usually leads to ruin).
The passage you cited can be interpreted the way yopu claim.

But what about Titus 3?

"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men."

You certainly have decided YOUR political motivations far outweigh what it says in this passage.

I also find it extremely offe4nsive that you think only people who have born a child can understand this situation. The two women had a legal agreement. Lisa Miller broke that agreement.

So please explain where the Bible says it's OK to give your word and promise and then decide that GOD has somehow given you justification for being a liar and a cheat.

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#11 Aug 14, 2012
Pam wrote:
<quoted text>
This passage instructs us that God's laws override man's laws, especially when civil laws do not reflect God's laws.
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28 saying,“We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you fintend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29 But Peter and the apostles answered,“We must obey God rather than men."
Absolutely nothing demonstrates man's laws contradicting God's laws like this whole homosexual issue. God's law forbids homosexual activity. Increasingly civil laws thumb their noses at God's laws. Thank God there are still people with the morality and the fortitude to stand up for God's laws even in the face of civil condemnation. Reminds me of Mr. Cathy asking who do we think we are that we believe we know what a marriage is more than God does. There is a word for the arrogance of men who think they know better than God - hubris (arrogance that usually leads to ruin).
One thing I'll agree with you on. You certainly know and practice the definition of hubris.

“Equality marches on! ”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#12 Aug 14, 2012
Do share, "Pam", how it feels to be a woman.-snicker-snicker-

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#13 Aug 14, 2012
Pam wrote:
Lisa Miller is a wonderful example of how far a mother will go to protect her child. I have nothing but admiration for her. I suspect that most of the people commenting on how vile she is and calling her a criminal have never given birth to a child. And that includes Janet Jenkins, who would have dropped this long ago if she really loved the child. Jenkins' actions are the ones that forced this exile. She purused her own selfish interests with no care, apparently, about what the child was going through. I hope that one day Lisa will write a book about this ordeal and that that book will discourage the act of bringing children into a same-sex relationship.
My lesbian pastor says you're wrong.

:)
Pam

Grove City, PA

#14 Aug 14, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>How can you claim "respect" for the law when you display this much ignorance of it. Miller and Jenkins entered into what was then a civil union. They planned for this child as a couple and gave birth to her in a state which automatically conferred parental rights to the non-biological parent. They raised this child as a couple until their relationship fell apart and when it did, it was Miller who proposed the custodial and visitation agreement which was accepted by Jenkins. No one imposed anything on them. It was Miller's political motivations which began this problem by seeking multiple times to abrogate her own agreement through repeatedly filing suit in a state which she believed would void Jenkins legal parental rights as established in Vermont. Her decision to become a "Christian" was nothing more than another cynical ploy to win backing and free legal representation for her cause. The decision which was reached on her own visitation agreement in Vermont was, according to the law you claim to respect, the last word on the subject unless it could be proved that her former partner was an unfit parent. She tried that route in both Vermont and Virginia and failed miserably. She proved herself to be an unfit custodial parent, no one did that to her. She was given chance after chance to live up to her own agreement but she refused. She isn't doing this out of love for their daughter, but out of some of the ugliest selfishness to come down the pike in ages, but since she wrapped it up in the mantle of "Christianity" you refuse to see the truth. Pastor Miller has involved himself in her criminal act and now must pay the price for his own poor judgment. The only way that justice will be served is if their daughter is brought back to this country and the woman who gave birth to her (she lost any right to be considered her mother years ago) finally pays the price for the damage she has intentionally inflicted on everyone involved. I'd tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself, but you make it painfully obvious that you have none to feel.
According to articles I have read, Vermont law would require someone like Janet to actually adopt the child to be considered her parents. She has never done so. And who are you to decide that Lisa "wrapped it up the mantle of Christianity"? Who made you a god that you can judge someone's faith like that? Hubris raising its ugly head once again.
Pam

Grove City, PA

#15 Aug 14, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>The passage you cited can be interpreted the way yopu claim.
But what about Titus 3?
"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men."
You certainly have decided YOUR political motivations far outweigh what it says in this passage.
I also find it extremely offe4nsive that you think only people who have born a child can understand this situation. The two women had a legal agreement. Lisa Miller broke that agreement.
So please explain where the Bible says it's OK to give your word and promise and then decide that GOD has somehow given you justification for being a liar and a cheat.
That is exactly why people should not be entering into same-sex "marriages." That kind of agreement puts people between a rock and a hard place if they become convicted on their actions as Lisa apparently did.
Pam

Grove City, PA

#16 Aug 14, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
My lesbian pastor says you're wrong.
:)
I wouldn't put any stock in that whatsoever.
Mona Lott

Brooklyn, NY

#17 Aug 14, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>One thing I'll agree with you on. You certainly know and practice the definition of hubris.
TESTIFY!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#18 Aug 14, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Miller is actually a Beachy Amish-Mennonite, one of the smaller splinter sects that have separated from from the more familiar Anabaptist groups over the years over doctrinal issues. They're Amish in name only but more conservative than the Mennonites most people are familiar with, which is why they probably got involved in offering Miller protection.
I thought that Miller had been one of them who disfellowshipped from them during her Rumspringga.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#19 Aug 14, 2012
Pam wrote:
According to articles I have read, Vermont law would require someone like Janet to actually adopt the child to be considered her parents. She has never done so. And who are you to decide that Lisa "wrapped it up the mantle of Christianity"? Who made you a god that you can judge someone's faith like that? Hubris raising its ugly head once again.
You have read incorrectly, quite unsurprisingly. You're the one who said she became Christian and use this 11th hour conversion as your basis for supporting her, if that isn't wrapping her situation up in the mantle of Christianity, then what else would it be?

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#20 Aug 14, 2012
snyper wrote:
I thought that Miller had been one of them who disfellowshipped from them during her Rumspringga.
I'm not sure what, if any, religious background she had before all this began and I don't know if the Beachys practice Rumspringga. I do know that she ended up at Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist and that it was his Liberty Counsel that's been behind the legal odyssey this case has become. How this Ken Miller even became a part of the scheme I can't recall ever being explained

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