The Senate's gun control fail: dead c...

The Senate's gun control fail: dead children and monied politicians | David Simon

There are 605 comments on the The Guardian story from Apr 18, 2013, titled The Senate's gun control fail: dead children and monied politicians | David Simon. In it, The Guardian reports that:

The blocking of gun control legislation in the Senate exposes just how deeply corrupted America's bought democracy has become Mark Barden, whose son Daniel died at Sandy Hook elementary school, hugs Joe Biden after the Senate bill was killed.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Guardian.

spocko

Oakland, CA

#392 May 4, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Deflection time.
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people – oh really? Guns are harmless inanimate objects and do nothing. Well, I got news for you gunloons, so is a ham sandwich or any other inorganic object, problem with your semi-conscious logic is that your “harmless” gun is the only lethal and incredibly deadly object when combined with humans or perhaps monkeys as well. Of the tenths of thousand homicides by firearm in the US every year, how many fall into the "Protection from Tyranny" or "Resistance To Tyranny" categories? Can we ask these loons to get back to us with an argument that deals with reality?

For a moment there I thought it was SNL...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/05/...
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#393 May 4, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people – oh really? Guns are harmless inanimate objects and do nothing. Well, I got news for you gunloons, so is a ham sandwich or any other inorganic object, problem with your semi-conscious logic is that your “harmless” gun is the only lethal and incredibly deadly object when combined with humans or perhaps monkeys as well.
Yes they are. But so are automobiles, trucks, alcohol.

But you do know of course that out of all the legal gun owners, only a fraction of perhaps 1% or so use those weapons for murders or to otherwise harm an innocent individual(s).

This is the classroom mentality. A teacher walks into her classroom and notices that some student wrote azz-hole on the chalkboard. Because of that one student, all students have to write 100 times "I will not write on the chalkboard unless the teacher tells me."

You can't punish everybody else for the actions of a few. You accomplish nothing that way. What you can do however is experiment using states as trial models for the rest of the country. So you select a state and ban all weapons. Track the success or failure of that state, and if successful, implement the law for the rest of the country. If a failure, then we have more liberal laws for legal gun owners. If not a state, then perhaps a city or two.

OH WAIT! I forgot. We already tried that in places like Detroit, Chicago and Washington DC. Didn't work out so well now did it? Going back to Sandy Hook--a state with their own assault weapon ban, we see it didn't work either.

The point I'm making is that in certain areas of this country, we already DID try it your way, and it was a complete failure; still is today.

That being said, why would we spread failure to the rest of the country?
senior citizen

Granite City, IL

#394 May 4, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people – oh really? Guns are harmless inanimate objects and do nothing. Well, I got news for you gunloons, so is a ham sandwich or any other inorganic object, problem with your semi-conscious logic is that your “harmless” gun is the only lethal and incredibly deadly object when combined with humans or perhaps monkeys as well. Of the tenths of thousand homicides by firearm in the US every year, how many fall into the "Protection from Tyranny" or "Resistance To Tyranny" categories? Can we ask these loons to get back to us with an argument that deals with reality?
For a moment there I thought it was SNL...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/05/...
Not true - cars are deadly weapons, base ball bats are deadly weapons, knives are deadly weapons, poison is a deadly weapon and guess what, they ALL HAVE TO HAVE A HUMAN OR PERHAPS MONKEYS TO ACTIVATE THE DEADLY ACT.
Can you back up your comment on tenths of thousands homicides in USA every year by firearms?
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#395 May 4, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people – oh really? Guns are harmless inanimate objects and do nothing. Well, I got news for you gunloons, so is a ham sandwich or any other inorganic object, problem with your semi-conscious logic is that your “harmless” gun is the only lethal and incredibly deadly object when combined with humans or perhaps monkeys as well. Of the tenths of thousand homicides by firearm in the US every year, how many fall into the "Protection from Tyranny" or "Resistance To Tyranny" categories? Can we ask these loons to get back to us with an argument that deals with reality?
For a moment there I thought it was SNL...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/05/...
Yet motor vehicles kill about three times as many people as firearm homicides and we could easily cut down on the figure by lowering the maximum speed limit to 55 mph and putting governors on all motor vehicles. I mean how many people must die before Americans stand up and say, "enough is enough"? What, no takers? If we can save just one life it is well worth it and we have to start somewhere. Sound familiar? Once we do that we can then restrict high speed sports cars because no civilian needs a car that is capable of doing 170 mph just to go to the grocery store. Besides, some of them are scary looking, especially the shiny black ones with the rear speed controlled air foils and the low profile tires with specialty license plates that say things like,"2FST4U" Then we can ban red cars because statistics show red cars have the most accidents.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#396 May 5, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes they are. But so are automobiles, trucks, alcohol.
Hey genius that is kind of my point - ye moron!
spocko

Oakland, CA

#397 May 5, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true - cars are deadly weapons, base ball bats are deadly weapons, knives are deadly weapons, poison is a deadly weapon and guess what, they ALL HAVE TO HAVE A HUMAN OR PERHAPS MONKEYS TO ACTIVATE THE DEADLY ACT.
Can you back up your comment on tenths of thousands homicides in USA every year by firearms?
Insanely stupid talking points, like a friggen broken record! Each and everyone of those objects not only have a specific purpose, but they contribute to the economy and society in countless ways! As opposed to your revered object of death and mayhem serving death and, perhaps even worse, mutilation!
You are obviously not playing with hole deck (probably never have)but I will engage you in spite your stupidity. An outrageously moronic and self-serving argument! For one thing, cars did not exist when the constitution was written - and neither did automatic and semi-automatic weapons (nor was there any conception that their ever would be). Cars are a huge part of our economy, driving is a privilege not a right – as guns ought to be! Considering that we have as many as 300 million cars on the road every single day (not counting trucks) with an average of fatal accidents of 150 per day is remarkable. The very reason this is possible, besides seat belts and air bags, is licensing and strict rules and regulations supported by strict enforcement. Clearly, the very same concept can be applied to safe and responsible private gun ownership. Not to mention that these are “accidents” not deliberate and intentional kills as is the case with guns! Now consider the number of guns that are being brandished every single day in public, of course we can’t know that as there are no mechanisms to determine such numbers. Just for the sake of argument, the NRA claims that 6500 times a day, a fire arm is being brandished by an individual (how they come up with this number is anyone’s guess). But one thing we do know is that 83 people die by fire arm ever single day, so we are comparing 300 million cars on the road per day with 150 fatal accidents as compared to 6500 guns publicly brandished per day resulting in 83 death – you do the math ye moron!
spocko

Oakland, CA

#398 May 5, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet motor vehicles kill about three times as many people as firearm homicides and we could easily cut down on the figure by lowering the maximum speed limit to 55 mph and putting governors on all motor vehicles. I mean how many people must die before Americans stand up and say, "enough is enough"? What, no takers? If we can save just one life it is well worth it and we have to start somewhere. Sound familiar? Once we do that we can then restrict high speed sports cars because no civilian needs a car that is capable of doing 170 mph just to go to the grocery store. Besides, some of them are scary looking, especially the shiny black ones with the rear speed controlled air foils and the low profile tires with specialty license plates that say things like,"2FST4U" Then we can ban red cars because statistics show red cars have the most accidents.
Again:
You are obviously not playing with whole deck (probably never have) but I will engage you in spite your stupidity. An outrageously moronic and self-serving argument! For one thing, cars did not exist when the constitution was written - and neither did automatic and semi-automatic weapons (nor was there any conception that their ever would be). Cars are a huge part of our economy, driving is a privilege not a right – as guns ought to be! Considering that we have as many as 300 million cars on the road every single day (not counting trucks) with an average of fatal accidents of 150 per day is remarkable. The very reason this is possible, besides seat belts and air bags, is licensing and strict rules and regulations supported by strict enforcement. Clearly, the very same concept can be applied to safe and responsible private gun ownership. Not to mention that these are “accidents” not deliberate and intentional kills as is the case with guns! Now consider the number of guns that are being brandished every single day in public, of course we can’t know that as there is no mechanism to determine such numbers. Just for the sake of argument, the NRA claims that 6500 times a day, a fire arm is being brandished by an individual (how they come up with this number is anyone’s guess). But one thing we do know is that 83 people die by fire arm ever single day, so we are comparing 300 million cars on the road per day with 150 fatal accidents as compared to 6500 guns publicly brandished per day resulting in 83 death – you do the math!
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#399 May 5, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Insanely stupid talking points, like a friggen broken record! Each and everyone of those objects not only have a specific purpose, but they contribute to the economy and society in countless ways! As opposed to your revered object of death and mayhem serving death and, perhaps even worse, mutilation!
You are obviously not playing with hole deck (probably never have)but I will engage you in spite your stupidity. An outrageously moronic and self-serving argument! For one thing, cars did not exist when the constitution was written - and neither did automatic and semi-automatic weapons (nor was there any conception that their ever would be). Cars are a huge part of our economy, driving is a privilege not a right – as guns ought to be! Considering that we have as many as 300 million cars on the road every single day (not counting trucks) with an average of fatal accidents of 150 per day is remarkable.
What's even more remarkable is how we have 300 million cars on the road when our population is only 315 million, and of those 315 million we have children, disabled, elderly that don't drive and commuters that use public transportation because they don't have a drivers license.
senior citizen

Granite City, IL

#400 May 5, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Insanely stupid talking points, like a friggen broken record! Each and everyone of those objects not only have a specific purpose, but they contribute to the economy and society in countless ways! As opposed to your revered object of death and mayhem serving death and, perhaps even worse, mutilation!
to 6500 guns publicly brandished per day resulting in 83 death – you do the math ye moron!
I did the math and you can not add or even get the facts straight. I stated knives was also a killer but you ignored it and only mention cars with false figures. Here is what is going on in CHINA - they are NOT ALLOWED GUNS. You just do not have the ability to comprehend that the gun bill as proposed WILL NOT APPLY to the THUGS OR GANGS it is only for the HONEST GUN OWNER. The THUGS do not have background checks the steal their guns.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE ARE NO GUNS ALLOWED IN A COUNTRY.

Chinese man attacks 22 children, 1 adult with knife outside primary school Case is the latest in a spate of school attacks in China in recent years. Min Yingjun, 36, slashed an elderly woman before zoning in on the schoolchildren, police said. No deaths have been reported.
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Friday, December 14, 2012, 1:11 PM.
Xie Xinye, a student who was injured in Friday's knife attack. BEIJING — A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.
The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located. The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.
A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years .A doctor at Guangshan's hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted. It was not clear how old the injured children were, but Chinese primary school pupils are generally 6-11 years old.
LI BO/Xinhua /Landov
Wei Jingru receives medical treatment. He was one of the 23 injured in a knife attack at Chenpeng Village Primary School.A notice posted on the Guangshan county government's website confirmed the number of injured and said an emergency response team had been set up to investigate the attacks. No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#401 May 5, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
What's even more remarkable is how we have 300 million cars on the road when our population is only 315 million, and of those 315 million we have children, disabled, elderly that don't drive and commuters that use public transportation because they don't have a drivers license.
Sorry my mistake 3 million motor vehicles, can't believe you fell for it thou :-/
spocko

Oakland, CA

#402 May 5, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
I did the math and you can not add or even get the facts straight. I stated knives was also a killer but you ignored it and only mention cars with false figures. Here is what is going on in CHINA - they are NOT ALLOWED GUNS. You just do not have the ability to comprehend that the gun bill as proposed WILL NOT APPLY to the THUGS OR GANGS it is only for the HONEST GUN OWNER. The THUGS do not have background checks the steal their guns.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE ARE NO GUNS ALLOWED IN A COUNTRY.
Chinese man attacks 22 children, 1 adult with knife outside primary school Case is the latest in a spate of school attacks in China in recent years. Min Yingjun, 36, slashed an elderly woman before zoning in on the schoolchildren, police said. No deaths have been reported.
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Friday, December 14, 2012, 1:11 PM.
Xie Xinye, a student who was injured in Friday's knife attack. BEIJING — A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.
The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located. The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.
A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years .A doctor at Guangshan's hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted. It was not clear how old the injured children were, but Chinese primary school pupils are generally 6-11 years old.
LI BO/Xinhua /Landov
Wei Jingru receives medical treatment. He was one of the 23 injured in a knife attack at Chenpeng Village Primary School.A notice posted on the Guangshan county government's website confirmed the number of injured and said an emergency response team had been set up to investigate the attacks. No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.
No died in the china knife attack ye moron!
senior citizen

Granite City, IL

#403 May 5, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
No died in the china knife attack ye moron!
You are a true Dem - you can not comprehend what you read. Let me break it down so you might be able to understand about knives. They will also KILL YOU when you are stabbed in the heart or if they slit your throat, or if you are cut and bleed to death.

You are saying it is OK because these KIDS DID NOT DIE? You are a heartless MORON.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#404 May 5, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a true Dem - you can not comprehend what you read. Let me break it down so you might be able to understand about knives. They will also KILL YOU when you are stabbed in the heart or if they slit your throat, or if you are cut and bleed to death.
You are saying it is OK because these KIDS DID NOT DIE? You are a heartless MORON.
Statistically, there are more murders with knives, blunt instruments and even hands and feet than assault weapons. Yet, attack assault weapons as a means of controlling murder. Go figure.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#405 May 5, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a true Dem - you can not comprehend what you read. Let me break it down so you might be able to understand about knives. They will also KILL YOU when you are stabbed in the heart or if they slit your throat, or if you are cut and bleed to death.
You are saying it is OK because these KIDS DID NOT DIE? You are a heartless MORON.
Very impressive and you figured this out all on your own ... you get a cookie now okay.
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#407 May 5, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Again:
You are obviously not playing with whole deck (probably never have) but I will engage you in spite your stupidity. An outrageously moronic and self-serving argument! For one thing, cars did not exist when the constitution was written - and neither did automatic and semi-automatic weapons (nor was there any conception that their ever would be). Cars are a huge part of our economy, driving is a privilege not a right – as guns ought to be! Considering that we have as many as 300 million cars on the road every single day (not counting trucks) with an average of fatal accidents of 150 per day is remarkable. The very reason this is possible, besides seat belts and air bags, is licensing and strict rules and regulations supported by strict enforcement. Clearly, the very same concept can be applied to safe and responsible private gun ownership. Not to mention that these are “accidents” not deliberate and intentional kills as is the case with guns! Now consider the number of guns that are being brandished every single day in public, of course we can’t know that as there is no mechanism to determine such numbers. Just for the sake of argument, the NRA claims that 6500 times a day, a fire arm is being brandished by an individual (how they come up with this number is anyone’s guess). But one thing we do know is that 83 people die by fire arm ever single day, so we are comparing 300 million cars on the road per day with 150 fatal accidents as compared to 6500 guns publicly brandished per day resulting in 83 death – you do the math!
Obviously they won't ever let you play with a full deck of cards because of the complexity involved. You babble so but as usual your ignorance is showing. The Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment was ratified in 1791. You say there was no concept of a semi auto rifle when the constitution was written . Let's see if your claim is true.
The Bill of Rights,including the 2nd Amendment, was ratified in 1791. From 1790 to 1815, the Austrian Army used a 22-shot .46 caliber repeating air rifle known as the Girandoni air rifle. A Girandoni air rifle was carried by Meriwether Lewis during the Lewis and Clark expedition in 1803 to 1806. Plain and simple, you are full of crap and if only 6500 firearms are publicly brandished each day, millions more are carried concealed on the person or in motor vehicles.
Further just because motor vehicles are a huge part of the economy doesn't mean we can't restrict them further in those areas that promote fatalities which would include speed and power. Do you really believe in a nation of 315 million people that 300 million autos are driven each day, not counting trucks? About 25% of the population is under 18 years of age which is roughly 78 million citizens, the vast majority of which do not drive. That leaves less than 240 million Americans to drive your 300 million autos. Then if we subtract those people in prison, nursing homes, hospitals,don't own cars etc., that number would dramatically drop again. How many homes have more cars than drivers? Jay Leno owns and has registered 83 cars and 74 motorcycles. I wonder how many of them he drives each day, don't you?
What an idiot you are.
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#408 May 5, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry my mistake 3 million motor vehicles, can't believe you fell for it thou :-/

Which calls for the appropriate quote-

"When I talk to liberals, I don't expect them to understand my positions on various issues. I spend most of my time trying to help them understand their own."
Mike Adams
downhill246

Delray Beach, FL

#409 May 5, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
No died in the china knife attack ye moron!
Oh you need deaths?

Mar 23, 2010

A former doctor armed with a large knife hacked 8 children to death and injured 5 others at an elementary school in eastern China today. The attacker, who has a history of mental health problems, was nabbed by police after the bloodbath at Nanping City Experimental Elementary School in Fujian province. His rampage was stopped by a security guard who knocked the weapon out of the man's hands with a mop. China has witnessed several school attacks over the last years. They're often blamed on grudges or mental illnesses, triggering calls for improved security.

An attacker named Wu Huanming 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010

On 4 August 2010, 26-year-old Fang Jiantang slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergarten in Zibo, Shandong province.

In September 2011, a young girl and three adults taking their children to nursery school were killed in Gongyi, Henan by 30-year-old Wang Hongbin with an axe. Another child and an adult were seriously wounded but survived.
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#410 May 6, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Last time I checked speeding wasn't a felony and the reason the woman wanted the weapon in the first place was because she was being stalked and did not expect the stalking to stop.
April 24, 2013
Woman defends herself from abuser, The Billings Gazette, Billings, Mont. 04/17/13
A woman was at home in Billings, Mont. when her estranged boyfriend came to her front door, and when he was refused entry, kicked in the back door of the house. As the abusive ex-boyfriend came inside, the woman retrieved a gun and forced him from the property. The woman then called police, who captured the criminal a short time later. Evidently, the firearm the woman keeps for self-defense proved more persuasive than the order of protection issued against the ex-boyfriend in December.
No one is saying that that woman being stalked can't have a gun in her posession...it just doesn't need to be an "assault weapon", and she should obtain it legally (permit, background check, etc.).
If sane, law-abiding citizens want to have guns, go for it! No one is trying to take your guns away, or make it impossible for you to get one. The laws curretnly being proposed may not solve any big problems, but we have to start somewhere.
Bigfoot

United States

#411 May 6, 2013
Windy wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is saying that that woman being stalked can't have a gun in her posession...it just doesn't need to be an "assault weapon", and she should obtain it legally (permit, background check, etc.).
If sane, law-abiding citizens want to have guns, go for it! No one is trying to take your guns away, or make it impossible for you to get one. The laws curretnly being proposed may not solve any big problems, but we have to start somewhere.
We currently have laws in place that are not enforced. Adding new laws that want be enforced is ignorant. We should stop the bleeding first, by figuring out a way to enforce the laws we have in place. Defining an "Assault Weapon": Any gun or oject can be an assualt weapon, which should not be the main issue. "Enforce the Law in place"
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#412 May 6, 2013
Bigfoot wrote:
<quoted text>
We currently have laws in place that are not enforced. Adding new laws that want be enforced is ignorant. We should stop the bleeding first, by figuring out a way to enforce the laws we have in place. Defining an "Assault Weapon": Any gun or oject can be an assualt weapon, which should not be the main issue. "Enforce the Law in place"
Which are the laws (in place ) that are not enforced?

The definition of "assault weapon" used in terms of gun legislation:
a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain cosmetic, ergonomic, or construction features similar to those of military firearms. Semi-automatic firearms fire one bullet (round) each time the trigger is pulled; the spent cartridge case is ejected and another cartridge is loaded into the chamber, without requiring the manual operation of a bolt handle, a lever, or a sliding handgrip. An assault weapon has a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding or collapsing stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.[1] Most assault weapons are rifles, but pistols or shotguns may also fall under the definition(s) or be specified by name.

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