Terrorism interrogations: Timeline emerges on approval of tough...

[SJM_]

dalmatian847 wrote:

<quoted text>
Quoting Media Matters as an unbiased source makes as much sense as qouting Hannity.Sorry your credibility 's shot if you don't realize Media Matters is a Left-wing mouthpiece. Only a drone would make such a comparison.
Clinton is renowned for his truthful responses to direct questioning so I fully believe everything he says! LOL!
However I suspect you know that already so go follow Obaaaama like the good little sheep you are.

From the 9-11 commission-

From page 110 of the report:
"Sudan's minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. The commission has found no credible evidence that this was so. U.S. Ambassador Timothy Carney had instructions only to push the Sudanese to expel bin Laden. Ambassador Carney had no legal basis to ask more from the Sudanese since, at the time, there was no indictment outstanding."

Pages 115-117:
Following the 1998 embassy bombings in Africa, the Clinton administration decided to attack the camps bin Laden used with cruise missiles. The missiles were fired on August 20, 1998. According to the 9/11 report, bin Laden was missed by a few hours.

The 9/11 Commission report also shows the administration did take action against terrorists, and describes the Clinton Administration as being "obsessed" with capturing bin Laden.

[FORMER Republican]

Econ 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Over 100 actual US citizens were tortured over a nearly 20 year period by the chicago police department but the righteous indignation from the liberals on the left in support of 3 known murdering terrorists while ignoring real torture against average citizens on our own soil is appalling.

1) I'm not liberal on the left. I am a Republican-turned independent because the Bush administration decided to go rogue on Iraq, Guantanamo, torture, etc.

2) I don't support the terrorists in any way, shape or form. What I DO support is protecting our country's honor, our reputation as a country that promotes freedom, democracy and human rights. We can't do that if we are using torture and publicly condoning it. Nobody will follow a hypocritical "do as I say, not as I do" policy.

You believe bush is such a horrible person when his only objective was to keep us (even you ungrateful idiots on the left) safe from additional attacks and seem oblivious to the fact that torture occurs often in this country for far less worthy objectives.

That's the kicker isn't it? Mr. Burge and crew probably thought their objectives were worthy - fighting crime in Chicago, even if they had to beat a confession out of somebody. If interrogators waterboarded a terrorists 183 times, how could a person possibly think that was effective or reliable evidence. It is perverse. It dishonors are country and hinders are ability to perform on the world stage.

Anyone who states that torture does work or doesn't work is full of shi+ because there is no definitive answer. Every person reacts differently depending on the situation and what techniques are involved.

Would you feel the same way if Mike Nifong had waterboarded the Duke lacrosse players to get them to confess to gangraping that lady? If somebody did it to you 183 times - it would move beyond fear, right? By time 50, you would figure out that they aren't trying to kill you - just break you. It's sadism, and who knows if the information is reliable or if somebody will say ANYTHING just to make it stop.

what is very disturbing about this situation is the way obama completely went back on his word.
He categorically denied he would favor releasing the memos and also claimed that agents involved from the CIA would be immune to prosecution. He now has reneged on both of those statements and caved to the left which seems to view this nore as a way to punish bush and extract revenge.

He wanted the practice stopped. It is in violation of international law. Maybe it became apparent to him the only way to get it stopped was to bring it out in the open.

This is certainly not a way to demonstrate his claims of being a uniter as every republican in dc opposes this action, as does EVERY SINGLE LIVING CIA DIRECTOR, INCLUDING OBAMA'S OWN CIA CHIEF.

He bent over backward to try to engage in bipartisan behavior - consulting Republicans, modifying early legislation, inviting them to the White House to establish rapport. It became obvious, very apparent, that Rep. Boehner has a head/ego the size of Texas and thought to use opposition as a powerplay for himself. Obama tried long enough, until the futility of it was too obvious to ignore.

with all the problems we are facing does anyone really believe that this issue is of such major importance that it deserves to be a major topic.

Yes. He is doing it to restore America's reputation and honor, which has been badly damaged by this issue. A man or a country - is only as good as his name - ruin that, and you really have nothing. He is trying to restore our reputation.

[Waldo]

dalmatian847 wrote:

<quoted text>
Hate to burst your bubble, but how well did the FBI protect us from 9/11 with their proven techniques? Next question.
Even Obama's own advisor, Admiral Blair admitted in the memo to the effectiveness of getting high-value information from the waterboarding. An inconvenient truth that Barry chose to edit from the memo he gave to the sheep, er.. media. Why is that?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics...
When the N.Y Times picks up on it, then you know it's too obvious to be ignored.

I hate to burst you bubble but this is from that NY
Time article and Adm. Blair
“The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night.“The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

How is that saying he approved of torture?

[dalmatian847]

Waldo wrote:

<quoted text>
I hate to burst you bubble but this is from that NY
Time article and Adm. Blair
“The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night.“The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."
How is that saying he approved of torture?

I hate to burst your bubble, but reading is a skill Waldo, look at my post you responded to. I did not say Blair approved of torture, only that he acknowledged that the information gained was valuable. Next time read carefully before you attribute imaginaery quotes to someone.

I fail to see why the Obama Administration would decide to de-classify only memos that would justify their position yet withhold one's that demonstrated the effectiveness of the interrogations. To me it's playing politics with the security of the nation, which is unacceptable.

BTW, I'm curious on your thoughts on that stunt the Ibama Administration pulled over N.Y? Evidently they wanted to keep that away from the public and therefore causing an entire city to panic.

So let's recap, CIA memos designed to extract information from a man responsible for the murder of 3000 people in N.Y, DECLASSIFIED.

Idiotic political stunt guaranteed to cause panic in NY. CLASSIFIED

That's change I don't beieve in.

[dalmatian847]

SJM_ wrote:

<quoted text>
From the 9-11 commission-
From page 110 of the report:
"Sudan's minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. The commission has found no credible evidence that this was so. U.S. Ambassador Timothy Carney had instructions only
to push the Sudanese to expel bin Laden. Ambassador Carney had no legal basis to ask more from the Sudanese since, at the time, there was no indictment outstanding."
Pages 115-117:
Following the 1998 embassy bombings in Africa, the Clinton administration decided to attack the camps bin Laden used with cruise missiles. The missiles were fired on August 20, 1998. According to the 9/11 report, bin Laden was missed by a few hours.
The 9/11 Commission report also shows the administration did take action against terrorists, and describes the Clinton Administration as being "obsessed" with capturing bin Laden.

I'm curios to know what was on those documents former NSA under Clinton Sandy Berger "accidently" shoved down his pants and "misplaced" to which he pleaded guilty to.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7351422/

Or did you forget that little fact while cutting and pasting?

[Waldo]

dalmatian847 wrote:

<quoted text>
I hate to burst your bubble, but reading is a skill Waldo, look at my post you responded to. I did not say Blair approved of torture, only that he acknowledged that the information gained was valuable. Next time read carefully before you attribute imaginaery quotes to someone.
I fail to see why the Obama Administration would decide to de-classify only memos that would justify their position yet withhold one's that demonstrated the effectiveness of the interrogations. To me it's playing politics with the security of the nation, which is unacceptable.
BTW, I'm curious on your thoughts on that stunt the Ibama Administration pulled over N.Y? Evidently they wanted to keep that away from the public and therefore causing an entire city to panic.
So let's recap, CIA memos designed to extract information from a man responsible for the murder of 3000 people in N.Y, DECLASSIFIED.
Idiotic political stunt guaranteed to cause panic in NY. CLASSIFIED
That's change I don't beieve in.

So you only read the first line? What about reading comprehension? The rest of the quote kind of says it all.

One of the problems here is everyone is blaming Obama for the release of the memos. I am so surprised that they seem to forget it was the ACLU that was forcing the issue with the Freedom of Information Act. Obama had been dragging his feet on the release for quite some time. Most of you guys are all over the ACLU and in all the posts I have read it was Obama this and Obama that and not a peep about ACLU. It seems strange. Obama kept saying he didn't want to look back, just look forward. His hand was forced.

And what does torture have to do with the boneheaded stunt of flying that damn plane over NYC? You can bet that something is going to hit the fan over that. You don't have to be right or left to know that was just plain stupid. Even Jon Steward asked, "don't they know how to use photoshop?" or something to that effect. If they just wanted a picture that is the easiest thing to do.

It is like comparing Bush choking on a pretzel with torture. It just ain't the same.

[SJM_]

dalmatian847 wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm curios to know what was on those documents former NSA under Clinton Sandy Berger "accidently" shoved down his pants and "misplaced" to which he pleaded guilty to.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7351422/
Or did you forget that little fact while cutting and pasting?

According to this CNN article, Berger said that the 9-11 commission received all the documents and he only destroyed copies not originals so who are you doubt his word..lol

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/08/berger...

[Azdak]

Waldo wrote:

<quoted text>
So you only read the first line? What about reading comprehension? The rest of the quote kind of says it all.
One of the problems here is everyone is blaming Obama for the release of the memos. I am so surprised that they seem to forget it was the ACLU that was forcing the issue with the Freedom of Information Act. Obama had been dragging his feet on the release for quite some time. Most of you guys are all over the ACLU and in all the posts I have read it was Obama this and Obama that and not a peep about ACLU. It seems strange. Obama kept saying he didn't want to look back, just look forward. His hand was forced.
And what does torture have to do with the boneheaded stunt of flying that damn plane over NYC? You can bet that something is going to hit the fan over that. You don't have to be right or left to know that was just plain stupid. Even Jon Steward asked, "don't they know how to use photoshop?" or something to that effect. If they just wanted a picture that is the easiest thing to do.
It is like comparing Bush choking on a pretzel with torture. It just ain't the same.

It was for the pretzel.

[JMKC]

If you believe anything that Nancy "let em eat cake" Pelosi, I'll sell you the London Bridge.
I'm taking bets on just how many botox treatments it takes to have that Cheshire Cat smile. Must be fun talking thru her lying teeth like her jaw is wired shut.

[dalmatian847]

Waldo wrote:

<quoted text>
So you only read the first line? What about reading comprehension? The rest of the quote kind of says it all.
One of the problems here is everyone is blaming Obama for the release of the memos. I am so surprised that they seem to forget it was the ACLU that was forcing the issue with the Freedom of Information Act. Obama had been dragging his feet on the release for quite some time. Most of you guys are all over the ACLU and in all the posts I have read it was Obama this and Obama that and not a peep about ACLU. It seems strange. Obama kept saying he didn't want to look back, just look forward. His hand was forced.
And what does torture have to do with the boneheaded stunt of flying that damn plane over NYC? You can bet that something is going to hit the fan over that. You don't have to be right or left to know that was just plain stupid. Even Jon Steward asked, "don't they know how to use photoshop?" or something to that effect. If they just wanted a picture that is the easiest thing to do.
It is like comparing Bush choking on a pretzel with torture. It just ain't the same.

I should ask the same of you. Did you even bother reading my post before attributing imaginary quotes to me? Once again reading and understanding are two different things. I could read a book in Latin and not undrstand a lic of it. So the next time you attribute words to me that I did not write, expect me to respond in kind.

Tell me something, was it also not Obama's fault to announce that there would be no prosecutions for it and then flip flop 24 hours later when the Left wing nutjobs blew the load? He could have done something actually Presidential for a change and announced a blanket amnesty to those involved, and diffused the entire situation.

However that would anger the far-left that put him into office. He was trying to vote "present" again like he did 135 times in Congress and it blew up in his face.

Can a President be called to task for decisions purely within his control(like the words that come out of his mouth) or in that too much to ask of the idol worshippers?

The "incident" with the plane should not require a two-week investigation to figure out what went wrong, should it? The two-week period is a cooling period in which we'll hear nothing more about it, or some low level beauraucrat will be scape-goated because the guy respnsible ultimately is "too big to fail".

[Ivan SRB]

Rockefeller = Earthkeeper