Make it a fight: the apology strategy

Make it a fight: the apology strategy

There are 11 comments on the Brattleboro Reformer story from Oct 4, 2010, titled Make it a fight: the apology strategy. In it, Brattleboro Reformer reports that:

Democrats are starting to look like a combination of "F Troop" and a whole herd of deer in the headlights.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Brattleboro Reformer.

Truthtalker

Brattleboro, VT

#1 Oct 4, 2010
Where is the Journal Inquirer? Greenwich Village. Seriously..."defend decency and good sense"?...so the conservatives and tea party don't have any. That is the problem. The dems and liberals think they have a monopoly on decency and they think that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid.

That is where they should start. First, admit that conservatives are just as smart as they are and are nice people. Then consider why 65% of the voting public calls itself fiscally conservative and why they are only 21% of the voting public. Could it be that the liberal approach isn't about common sense at all...could it be that it lacks common sense and that is what the problem is?
mike mulligan

Charlestown, MA

#2 Oct 4, 2010
How is the pot in Bratt?

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#4 Oct 4, 2010
The differences between Democrats and Republican, between conservatives and progressives, is not about decency or sense. It has to do with tactics. If one steps back and looks objectively (perhaps a moderate) and looks at the strategies that each employ to appeal to both their base and those on the fence, a pattern emerges.

Democrats/Progressives try to appeal to a persons 'better angels'. It by far the most difficult, and least likely tactic to succeed. They try to appeal to peoples compassion, sense of community, and hope, and to trigger in a person the drive to better the lives of those that are not themselves.

Republicans, take a much more successful approach. An approach that will almost always win. They address the "greater demons" in people. The appeal to the fear, anger, and xenophobia that all people feel at times. It's a powerful drive and its comparatively much easier to trigger than what the other side tries.

I am not speaking about the voters, they are just the targets, I am speaking of the politicians, their operatives, and the special interest lobbyists in government. And yes, there is exceptions to this pattern on both sides.
Truthtalker

Brattleboro, VT

#5 Oct 4, 2010
Vermont Citizen wrote: "Republicans, take a much more successful approach. An approach that will almost always win. They address the "greater demons" in people. The appeal to the fear, anger, and xenophobia that all people feel at times. It's a powerful drive and its comparatively much easier to trigger than what the other side tries."

You actually have hit on something although not what you expected. The above quote is a typical liberal definition of the republican approach. That is why the liberals fail because they don't get the fact that the conservative approach is about personal responsibility, personal charity, freedom to work hard and achieve the American dream, giving a helping hand instead of a handout, helping the helpless but giving the clueless a kick in the butt. I consider all those things our "better angels" as we let each other live and let live. You see we don't need government to tell us to be better people. We already know we are good people.

That is why the demographics of the tea party show that they are better educated and had been harder working and successful than the average American.

As for your definition of democratic tactics...you are totally missing it. They want to claim a monopoly on kindness but they are anything but. They call themselves "liberal" but they find fault in ways that are anything but liberal or kind. Liberals don't want to respect personal opinions that are different from theirs. People who have a different opinion are stupid, haters, nazis or right wingers. They call the tea party, a movement which is composed of among other things, large numbers of grandmothers, the "tea baggers" knowing it is a demeaning pornographic term..and then they laugh sounding like the girls who didn't make the cheerleading squad talking about the girls that did. You tell me how is that appealing to the "better angels" in people? Talk about angry.

And the proof of this liberal flaw is shown by the current democratic agenda which is opposed by so many that the voters are going to give the republicans a huge victory in November. A victory which I think relates to how democrats and liberals view the public and the voters....as stupid people who don't deserve their respect.

Since: Jul 10

Brattleboro, VT

#6 Oct 4, 2010
Truthtalker wrote:
Where is the Journal Inquirer? Greenwich Village. Seriously..."defend decency and good sense"?...so the conservatives and tea party don't have any. That is the problem. The dems and liberals think they have a monopoly on decency and they think that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid.
That is where they should start. First, admit that conservatives are just as smart as they are and are nice people. Then consider why 65% of the voting public calls itself fiscally conservative and why they are only 21% of the voting public. Could it be that the liberal approach isn't about common sense at all...could it be that it lacks common sense and that is what the problem is?
Let's get you sorted out here. I don't know where you got the 65% fiscally conservative figure, but a lot of those are Democrats. In fact fiscal responsibility has not been a strong point in either party since Ronald Reagan threw his big party on borrowed money. The last president to balance a budget was Clinton. Secondly, if 21% consider themselves liberal, Democrats still outnumber Republicans, while independents grow. How many consider themselves socially AND fiscally conservative? The tea-baggers are tearing the Republican Party apart, and even they are starting to rupture, with religious conservatives and fiscal conservatives trying to pull the movement in different directions. Current polls show that Republicans are even more unpopular than Democrats, although the Democrats, as the party in power, will suffer more from anti-incumbent sentiment.

Remember, you got whomped in the last 2 elections, so if you win one now, you'll be only partly back to where you were in 2007. If you're thinking that you'll be in a permanent majority starting in November, remember that Karl Rove predicted a "permanent Republican majority" before their catastrophic losses in 2006 and 2008.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#7 Oct 4, 2010
So, do you agree with the definition of the words liberal and conservative as put forth by Conservapedia? That site shows that even if you are correct about certain aspects of liberalism in America, you put it forth as if progressives alone are guilty of vilification. Conservapedia is a great example of why that is incorrect.

I am generally careful not to use the word "Liberal". I don't think its a great choice for what it is supposed to describe. Progressive is a much more accurate word I think. Plus it's harder to say in a tone that makes it sound like its spelled with only four letters.
Yourarbiter

Dover, NH

#8 Oct 4, 2010
Vermont citizen wrote:
So, do you agree with the definition of the words liberal and conservative as put forth by Conservapedia? That site shows that even if you are correct about certain aspects of liberalism in America, you put it forth as if progressives alone are guilty of vilification. Conservapedia is a great example of why that is incorrect.
I am generally careful not to use the word "Liberal". I don't think its a great choice for what it is supposed to describe. Progressive is a much more accurate word I think. Plus it's harder to say in a tone that makes it sound like its spelled with only four letters.
I don't know the definitions of liberal and conservative as stated on conservapedia. My definitions are just based on a lifetime of paying attention and about 50 books on the history of this country. All we have to do to improve things is stop with the vilification on both sides.

New Clear Waste who posted above is a good example of that. She clearly thinks anyone who is conservative is stupid and says it quite often. She is in denial about the make up of the tea party who she calls the "teabaggers".

While the democrats aren't all "liberals", clearly the agenda since Obama's election has been liberal or progressive. The moderate democrats have been swept up in the mix and so have little to do as they run for reelection except deny that they agreed with Obama.

New Clear Waste has been denying any move toward conservatism in this country and I'm surprised to see her admit in the post above that there will be a wave of republicans elected. Although she wants to minimize it's affect like it is no big deal even though it might be the biggest sweep in the political history of the congress. No big deal. If you watch MSNBC they are even saying it is a good thing for the democrats.

She is right though when she says that there are a lot of fiscally conservative democrats. All that is happening right now is they are finally going to regain their voices as they join the republicans to straighten things out after November.

As for the Tea Party ...it is full of democrats and it is not "tearing the republican party apart" as New Clear Waste says. Wishful thinking. They are just reminding the republicans what they stand for. Bringing them back to the basics as taught by Reagan.
Yourarbiter

Dover, NH

#9 Oct 4, 2010
New Clear Waste said: "although the Democrats, as the party in power, will suffer more from anti-incumbent sentiment."

So you think the democrats problem is just anti incumbent sentiment? Seems to me it is probably the excessive spending which had taken our national debt as a percentage of GDP from 63% at the end of GW's presidency (59% at the end of Clinton's) to 93% this year and to over 100% at the end of 2011.

I think all those Tea Party people and a whole lot of other people have figured out that the present administration and the democrats in congress have suffered from irrational spending exuberance and have put our future in jeopardy.

I don't think it is anti imcumbent sentiment that is the problem the democrats are having.
Truthtalker

Brattleboro, VT

#10 Oct 5, 2010
New Clear Waste wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's get you sorted out here. I don't know where you got the 65% fiscally conservative figure, but a lot of those are Democrats. In fact fiscal responsibility has not been a strong point in either party since Ronald Reagan threw his big party on borrowed money. The last president to balance a budget was Clinton. Secondly, if 21% consider themselves liberal, Democrats still outnumber Republicans, while independents grow. How many consider themselves socially AND fiscally conservative? The tea-baggers are tearing the Republican Party apart, and even they are starting to rupture, with religious conservatives and fiscal conservatives trying to pull the movement in different directions. Current polls show that Republicans are even more unpopular than Democrats, although the Democrats, as the party in power, will suffer more from anti-incumbent sentiment.
Remember, you got whomped in the last 2 elections, so if you win one now, you'll be only partly back to where you were in 2007. If you're thinking that you'll be in a permanent majority starting in November, remember that Karl Rove predicted a "permanent Republican majority" before their catastrophic losses in 2006 and 2008.
"Republicans are favored by 49 percent of likely voters compared to 43 percent for Democrats, said the poll, which was published by the Washington Post."

This is the only poll that matters. Subject to confirmation in November. The republicans problem is that they don't care what the public wants. They have their own agenda and the public sentiment be damned.
Free is free

Albuquerque, NM

#11 Oct 5, 2010
This is so spot-on! Dems may want to appear compassionate and caring, but their derisive tone and sneering sarcasm belie a deep-seated belief that they are superior to all who don't believe as they do. From what I've observed, they truly believe anyone who's not with them is beneath them.
Truthtalker wrote:
Vermont Citizen wrote: "Republicans, take a much more successful approach. An approach that will almost always win. They address the "greater demons" in people. The appeal to the fear, anger, and xenophobia that all people feel at times. It's a powerful drive and its comparatively much easier to trigger than what the other side tries."
You actually have hit on something although not what you expected. The above quote is a typical liberal definition of the republican approach. That is why the liberals fail because they don't get the fact that the conservative approach is about personal responsibility, personal charity, freedom to work hard and achieve the American dream, giving a helping hand instead of a handout, helping the helpless but giving the clueless a kick in the butt. I consider all those things our "better angels" as we let each other live and let live. You see we don't need government to tell us to be better people. We already know we are good people.
That is why the demographics of the tea party show that they are better educated and had been harder working and successful than the average American.
As for your definition of democratic tactics...you are totally missing it. They want to claim a monopoly on kindness but they are anything but. They call themselves "liberal" but they find fault in ways that are anything but liberal or kind. Liberals don't want to respect personal opinions that are different from theirs. People who have a different opinion are stupid, haters, nazis or right wingers. They call the tea party, a movement which is composed of among other things, large numbers of grandmothers, the "tea baggers" knowing it is a demeaning pornographic term..and then they laugh sounding like the girls who didn't make the cheerleading squad talking about the girls that did. You tell me how is that appealing to the "better angels" in people? Talk about angry.
And the proof of this liberal flaw is shown by the current democratic agenda which is opposed by so many that the voters are going to give the republicans a huge victory in November. A victory which I think relates to how democrats and liberals view the public and the voters....as stupid people who don't deserve their respect.
estanson

Windsor, VT

#12 Oct 5, 2010
"The president and his party rescued millions of unemployed people. "

the pres took money from we the people and paid off the union vote.

"They rescued Wall Street and Detroit, not because they liked fat cats but so millions of us would not wind up selling apples.(And then they changed the rules for Wall Street and Detroit.) "

the rules wall street plans to make a killing on?
and do you mean so we the people dont have to work for a living?

"They started the nation down the road to affordable health care for all. "

in premuims possibly, completely unsustainable in increased taxes...

"(A big deal, just like Joe Biden said.)"
a F***IN big deal...lets not rewrite history to give that dolt some class now...

"Seniors, who were told their premiums would rise this year as a result, have seen them go down. "

and their benefits severly cut with the possibility their facility will close given the lower payouts...

"The president and the Dems wound down one war and came up with a strategy for ending another. "

they can end afghanistan the same way...claiming it is over with boots still on the ground...

They got us talking to our allies again.?
we started the isreal peace talks...ANYONE think that will be fruitful? ANYONE????

And, oh yeah, they stopped the practice of usury on loans to college kids.
as far as I knew in Vermont...nothing has really changed here...

quite a list of "accomplishments"
now i get why the dems are NOT taking the writers postion....

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