State lawmakers split on no-fault div...

State lawmakers split on no-fault divorce bill

There are 68 comments on the Newsday story from Aug 2, 2008, titled State lawmakers split on no-fault divorce bill. In it, Newsday reports that:

New York State's divorce laws starred in a summer soap opera for three weeks in a Central Islip courtroom, as Christie Brinkley battled her husband, Peter Cook .

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

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Toughness

Brooklyn, NY

#1 Aug 2, 2008
Once again, NY's citizens are at the mercy of that dictatorship in Rome, known as the Catholic Church and the "butch brigade", known as NOW.
This unholy alliance is the reason why it's so difficult to get a divorce in NY. It's about time the citizens of NY stand up to these two groups.
I only agree with the Catholic church on their opposition to abortion. My reason for opposing abortion is on scientific grounds. If any of our "leaders" who oppose changing NY's divorce laws for reasons other than the commands of the Church or NOW, I might have respect for their position.
THE FRITO BANDITO

Brooklyn, NY

#3 Aug 3, 2008
And then the lawyers ry to get the combatants into bed. They are very aggressive about that. Once again the slimeballs do their thing.

“Parental Alienation Attorney”

Since: Apr 07

Forest Hills, N.Y.

#4 Aug 3, 2008
The absolute worst thing a state can endure is law makers who know nothing of the law.

The fallacy in this article is that grounds equates to dragged out proceedings. The reality is that New York protects the innocent Defendant by allowing him to go to trial.

In other states, Defendants can be coerced to settle their cases, like accepting supervised visitation, and then sanctioned for refusing to settle. In more egregious cases, a judge can summarily order a losing party to psychological intervention creating a record adverse to the loser and draining his pockets.

Having a grounds trial fixes fault prior to the filing of the divorce action, so no judge can fabricate a case for or against grounds after filing.

Instead, child custody is the focus for many judges who obtain hearsay psychological reports against the desired loser. Federal funding beneficial to the judiciary may be triggered under CAPTA whenever issues of neglect or abuse of a child arise. Even in these cases, New York allows, even expects, a trial on custody. Judicial misconduct during trial gives rise to recourse.

Hence, New York affords a significant due process protection against government interloping. To remove this process by arguing that other states have adopted no fault is to be swayed by partisan politics in the divorce arena.

There should be a full and fair opportunity for all couples to have their case heard by a judge during trial. Settlement should be available but not mandated because coercion can be manufactured and imposed upon the desired loser.

Stated another way: New York allows a person to settle his case, and go to trial if the settlement is improper. Politicians and the news reporters are saying we need to wipe out trials and go straight to settlement. This means we can hold kids hostage to extract supervised visitation payments from the loser. We can order the loser to undergo mental health evaluations therefore diminishing his position in negotiations. We can take the loser's houses and means of support and sanction the loser for demanding a trial which no fault frowns upon.

This is happening wherever there is no fault.

See the Snooks Rockefeller case for more details.
Robert Sell - CFLAP

Sebastian, FL

#5 Aug 3, 2008
Don't be deceived. No fault divorce laws do nothing to stop these laws from destroying your life through the legal process. The divorce industry is a nationwide multi-billion dollar scam run by the legal profession and their proxies in the state judiciary and legislatures. They know full well how to word no fault laws to financially drain people and make them slaves of the court system for the rest of their lives. It can be summed up in two words "permanent alimony" or "judicial discretion". Unless the legislature time limits and caps alimony awards, embittered, entitlement minded ex spouses can drag the fight out for decades in a family law version of Moby Dick. Divorce should mean divorce and the divorcing couples deserve closure.
The legislature should put their money where their mouth is. Absent children, a couple should be able to divorce , go their separate ways, and get on with their lives without being manipulated pawns of the judiciary.

“Parental Alienation Attorney”

Since: Apr 07

Forest Hills, N.Y.

#6 Aug 3, 2008
The legal profession consisting of private family law practitioners is fighting tooth and nail to stop the system of divorce fraud.

We would support no fault if everything is split 50-50 and children are jointly parented. This will stop bogus forensics in the fields of psychology and finance. There must be a speedy trial requirement if negotiations break down. Lastly, all federal government funding under CAPTA, ASFA, CSSA and the Domestic Violence Against Women Act must stop.

Otherwise, fault based divorce is the only due process the average Joe has in our current system of justice. Remember that mothers suffer way more than men in a no fault system.

Lastly, let's ask that Rockefeller guy how his divorce was achieved and the deals he was presented. Such a discussion might curl our hair at what is possible in a no fault state.
Bill

Corning, NY

#7 Aug 3, 2008
NY also needs to reform family court. In joint custody cases paternal visitation violations are ignored and can only be resolved by proving intent. Support violations need no such proof and are handled administratively without seeing any judge. And the support penalties are severe, loss of passport, loss of driver's license, adverse credit reporting, loss of Federal and state tax refunds.

“Parental Alienation Attorney”

Since: Apr 07

Forest Hills, N.Y.

#8 Aug 3, 2008
Visitation scams all aim to make the non custodial parent somehow defective as a person. In the Brinkley divorce, we heard how the father had a porn addiction. This is a popular allegation that gets that parent into supervised visitation. Federal money flows to that supervised visitation facility.

Child support is the biggest scam. Preclusion of evidence yields astronomical support payments which drive the obligor into jail. This makes child support into the most useful and potent litigation weapon. Also, appeals get thwarted by the appellate structure involved in a support order. The appellate authority is the magistrate's judge who can introduce evidence into a case that cannot be rebutted.

It's a poker parlor full of games and get ready to lose everything as you figure out how to play the game.
Pete

Wayne, NJ

#12 Aug 3, 2008
Toughness wrote:
Once again, NY's citizens are at the mercy of that dictatorship in Rome, known as the Catholic Church and the "butch brigade", known as NOW.
This unholy alliance is the reason why it's so difficult to get a divorce in NY. It's about time the citizens of NY stand up to these two groups.
I only agree with the Catholic church on their opposition to abortion. My reason for opposing abortion is on scientific grounds. If any of our "leaders" who oppose changing NY's divorce laws for reasons other than the commands of the Church or NOW, I might have respect for their position.
It's not the catholic church moron it is all the Jewish lawyers in NY that keep this process. If there is no fight, no case, no case no money! these pond scum lawyers drag out this process and start the arguments between the spouses. Why does it take up to 5+ years to get a divorce in this state? We really need to clamp down on Lawyers! they are out of control. The judges, and politicians are former lawyers and they all stick together to line eachothers pockets!
darker

Bronx, NY

#13 Aug 3, 2008
NYState LEGISLATORS are AT FAULT for having one of the worse-case scenario DIVORCES in the USA.

Stop living in the past, people! PASS A NO-FAULT DIVORCE LAW.
It is past time to do that.

And it is past time to THROW OUT those legislators who don't pass the law. We've had it with lazy and corrupt NYS Legislators.
CFLAP

Sebastian, FL

#14 Aug 3, 2008
Family law is the antithesis of the very principles America was founded on. It only exists through constitutional fraud. How in God's name can a person be completely denied their constitutional rights by a "court of equity". Nowhere in the constitution is the judiciary granted the power to meddle in people's private lives and relationships and interfere with their freedom of association. It's all about money and using money to oppress innocent people for profit. Unfortunately, it would require the judiciary to rule against itself and limit it's own power. Good luck with that one.
Toughness

Brooklyn, NY

#15 Aug 3, 2008
Pete, I agree with you that the Jewish lawyers deserve blame as well. I say this even as I myself am Jewish. My main point is that, regardless of the issue whenever one uses their religous beliefs as a basis for taking a position on public policy, religion gains and public policy suffers.
Tired Old Man

AOL

#16 Aug 3, 2008
Lomtevas wrote:
The absolute worst thing a state can endure is law makers who know nothing of the law.
The fallacy in this article is that grounds equates to dragged out proceedings. The reality is that New York protects the innocent Defendant by allowing him to go to trial.
In other states, Defendants can be coerced to settle their cases, like accepting supervised visitation, and then sanctioned for refusing to settle. In more egregious cases, a judge can summarily order a losing party to psychological intervention creating a record adverse to the loser and draining his pockets.
Having a grounds trial fixes fault prior to the filing of the divorce action, so no judge can fabricate a case for or against grounds after filing.
Instead, child custody is the focus for many judges who obtain hearsay psychological reports against the desired loser. Federal funding beneficial to the judiciary may be triggered under CAPTA whenever issues of neglect or abuse of a child arise. Even in these cases, New York allows, even expects, a trial on custody. Judicial misconduct during trial gives rise to recourse.
Hence, New York affords a significant due process protection against government interloping. To remove this process by arguing that other states have adopted no fault is to be swayed by partisan politics in the divorce arena.
There should be a full and fair opportunity for all couples to have their case heard by a judge during trial. Settlement should be available but not mandated because coercion can be manufactured and imposed upon the desired loser.
Stated another way: New York allows a person to settle his case, and go to trial if the settlement is improper. Politicians and the news reporters are saying we need to wipe out trials and go straight to settlement. This means we can hold kids hostage to extract supervised visitation payments from the loser. We can order the loser to undergo mental health evaluations therefore diminishing his position in negotiations. We can take the loser's houses and means of support and sanction the loser for demanding a trial which no fault frowns upon.
This is happening wherever there is no fault.
See the Snooks Rockefeller case for more details.
No the absolute worst thing is an attorney defending his cash cow as if he is doing a public service. A grounds trial only assures the attorney court money even when people could have agreed on a setelment. Just as with vicarious libility the attorneys say we only keeping it for the good of tne people not because they were makeing millions off of it. Simplifying any legal process cost attorney's money and they will fight it. All things in a no fault divorce are subject to appeal.
groucho

Bohemia, NY

#18 Aug 3, 2008
I was married by a Judge. I should of asked for a jury.
joel hal

AOL

#19 Aug 3, 2008
Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not the catholic church moron it is all the Jewish lawyers in NY that keep this process. If there is no fight, no case, no case no money! these pond scum lawyers drag out this process and start the arguments between the spouses. Why does it take up to 5+ years to get a divorce in this state? We really need to clamp down on Lawyers! they are out of control. The judges, and politicians are former lawyers and they all stick together to line eachothers pockets!
Not all the LAWYERS are JEWISH. Not all LAWYERS are CROOKS. NOT ALL DIVORCES TAKE 5 PLUS YEARS.
joel hal

AOL

#20 Aug 3, 2008
Not all lawyers are Jewish. Not all lawyers are crooks, Most divorces do not take 5 plus years. Some divorces do not go through if there are not sufficent grounds.
Always right

Bangkok, Thailand

#21 Aug 3, 2008
Only fools get married,are you one?
Libertarian

Queensbury, NY

#22 Aug 3, 2008
We already have a no-fault divorce law--provided BOTH sides agree, which is the way it should be done.

Current law protects an innocent spouse from suffering a nasty surprise. Ideally, I'd prohibit divorces till the kids are 18, except in clear cases of physical danger, simply because their rights should come first, before those of their selfish parents.
Pete

Wayne, NJ

#23 Aug 3, 2008
joel hal wrote:
Not all lawyers are Jewish. Not all lawyers are crooks, Most divorces do not take 5 plus years. Some divorces do not go through if there are not sufficent grounds.
No Joel your right...not all lawyers are jewish just 90% of them. The point I was trying to make and I'm sorry if that came across anti semetic I didn't mean it that way but the Jewish people have a reputation of sticking together and please don't deny it. In my divorce, there wasn't suffecient grounds for a divorce. She thought the grass was greener.I decided to let her go. It was going smoothly till the lawyers got involved. She is Jewish, her lawyer was jewish, my lawyer was jewish and the judge was Jewish. I did'nt own a home, no pension no stocks, bonds annuity fund nothing. My X had unlimited financial resources my lawyer would send a 1-2 page motion and her att. would respond with something that looked like war & peace for her billable Hrs. When I said I would contest I was threatened with the IRS (self employed) I never hit my wife but the Jewish Judge in family Court felt the need for an order of protection which my X was allowed to use P.D. when she felt the need to kick me where the sun don't shine. I had to go through sup. visitation at 100 per hour because she had me arrested on order violation. in short I lost my business my diginity and everything else. When the divorce was over and the lawyers were out of the picture, we worked it out and got back together. I suffered, my kids suffered and she suffered while the lawyers laughed and counted up their billable Hrs. as they went to the bank!
Betrayed spouse

New York, NY

#24 Aug 3, 2008
I believed in no-fault divorce until my husband took with up a cheap piece of crap who tried to get him to divorce me. I found evidence that she planned to testify that I was a bad mother, etc. so he could get custody and child support.

What foiled her plan was that my husband had no grounds to divorce me on and I refused to file on adultery charges - much to her chagrin and upset.

If there was no-fault divorce in NY, my outcome would have been different.

I am still married and if there is a divorce in my future, it will be because I have grounds and my husband doesn't.

Fault divorce protects psople from being divorced without their consent. If a couple really wants a divorce, they will get it even with "fault" but in NY, an innocent spouse can't just be dumped and tossed.
marymom

Brooklyn, NY

#25 Aug 3, 2008
I am not in favor of no fault divorce. I do believe that there needs to be serious reform of the divorce system in NY. Unfortunately lawyers and judges have more power than people in the midst of a life crisis. I know firsthand that lawyers only make a bad situation worse. It does not matter what their religion is, it is their wallet that means the most to them. They work together, confuse us with their all important legalize bs, and drag cases out. They know what you are worth financially and they plan the case accordingly. I sound cynical, I know, but until you have witnessed this you can not imagine what a DYSFUNCTIONAL system it is. My divorce did not even involve child custody, and everything was split yet the other attorney insisted on going to trial! Ka - ching, ka - ching! He even talked about how much money he was making. Absolutely despicable! So no fault will not resolve all the problems in our current divorce system. Leaving lawyers out of it would be a huge first step. Mediation when possible or collaborative divorce would be better. Litigation is a nightmare! Reform must happen! I agree with Assemb. Michael Fitzpatrick quoted in Newsday, "We've become a culture when the going gets tough, the tough go quitting" . I would be curious to see how many people regret their divorces. They think the grass is greener, well mow your own grass. The best solution is preserving the sanctity of marriage and couples getting the support they need to save their marriages and families. Divorce has become an epidemic. No fault divorce is only a bandaid on a much bigger societal problem.

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