Poll: Many say let illegal immigrants...

Poll: Many say let illegal immigrants stay in US

There are 239 comments on the KAUZ story from Jan 22, 2013, titled Poll: Many say let illegal immigrants stay in US. In it, KAUZ reports that:

A shooting on a Texas community college campus wounded three people Tuesday and sent students fleeing for safety as officials placed the campus on lockdown, officials said.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KAUZ.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#25 Jan 24, 2013
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's face it, anything the government does is going to be a royal goat screw.
I won't argue with you on that.
Independent

Winchester, IN

#26 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
<quoted text>
Speak for yourself, you don't speak for me.
If they come here as kids and graduate and work, I say let them stay. I wouldn't give them special in-state tuition rates, but if they pay for it or get scholarships and graduate, they should be allowed to stay and work and eventually become citizens. Heck, I say let any college grad stay- we don't help the USA by deporting smart people.
If they serve in the military, let them stay and eventually work toward citizenship.
Tell them how you use them for slave labor, you have know concern for their well being, stop lying.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#27 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor do you.
At least they have some backing for their statement.
I don't think most Americans would favor a blanket amnesty, but I do think most would favor allowing those just come here to work hard and keep their noses clean to stay and eventually become citizens. It's just a matter of working out the details.
Americans such as yourself who hate Mexicans for whatever reason won't agree, of course. But unlike you, most Americans don't hate Mexican workers.
i see helping illegal aliens stay in the country as a felony no matter who is wanting them here. it is the law. then again some are ok with just a little crime then a little more until there is a crime wave like we see now.

we even have a twisted supreme court who is ok with id theft as long as the illegal alien doing it says he did not know it was a real persons id,not caring about the citizen who got ruined in the process of the better life for the slime that did it.

all these crimes go hand in hand if you support illegal aliens then you must be ok will everything they do.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#28 Jan 24, 2013
Independent wrote:
<quoted text>Tell them how you use them for slave labor, you have know concern for their well being, stop lying.
I think the word you are looking for is "no," professor.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#29 Jan 24, 2013
tomin cali wrote:
<quoted text>
i see helping illegal aliens stay in the country as a felony no matter who is wanting them here. it is the law. then again some are ok with just a little crime then a little more until there is a crime wave like we see now.
Yeah.

Only one problem. Until you get elected dictator, you don't get to make the laws.

The current law makes it a misdemeanor (not a felony) punishable by a small civil fine. Kind of like speeding.

Good luck running for dictator in the next election...

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#30 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah.
Only one problem. Until you get elected dictator, you don't get to make the laws.
The current law makes it a misdemeanor (not a felony) punishable by a small civil fine. Kind of like speeding.
Good luck running for dictator in the next election...
You might want to read the immigration code before betting on it being a misdemeanor.

Penalties from 5 to 20 years sort of falls into the felony class, don't you think?

TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER II - IMMIGRATION Part VIII - General Penalty Provisions

§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
(a) Criminal penalties
Independent

Winchester, IN

#31 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah.
Only one problem. Until you get elected dictator, you don't get to make the laws.
The current law makes it a misdemeanor (not a felony) punishable by a small civil fine. Kind of like speeding.
Good luck running for dictator in the next election...
Penalties -- The basic statutory maximum penalty for violating 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1)(i) and (v)(I)(alien smuggling and conspiracy) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both. With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii), domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5 years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years. In addition, significant enhanced penalties are provided for in violations of 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1) involving serious bodily injury or placing life in jeopardy. Moreover, if the violation results in the death of any person, the defendant may be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years. The basic penalty for a violation of subsection 1324(a)(2) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(A). Enhanced penalties are provided for violations involving bringing in criminal aliens, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(B)(i), offenses done for commercial advantage or private financial gain, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(B)(ii), and violations where the alien is not presented to an immigration officer immediately upon arrival, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(B)(iii). A mandatory minimum three year term of imprisonment applies to first or second violations of § 1324(a)(2)(B)(i) or (B)(ii). Further enhanced punishment is provided for third or subsequent offenses.
Up to 10 years in prison, seems pretty serious to me ,an educated smart guy like you wouldn't make it 10 min.
Independent

Winchester, IN

#32 Jan 24, 2013
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
You might want to read the immigration code before betting on it being a misdemeanor.
Penalties from 5 to 20 years sort of falls into the felony class, don't you think?
TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER II - IMMIGRATION Part VIII - General Penalty Provisions
§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
(a) Criminal penalties
I've brought this to his attention in another thread, he likes to exploit the illegal alien workforce for his own personal gain.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#33 Jan 24, 2013
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
You might want to read the immigration code before betting on it being a misdemeanor.
Penalties from 5 to 20 years sort of falls into the felony class, don't you think?
TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER II - IMMIGRATION Part VIII - General Penalty Provisions
§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
(a) Criminal penalties
He used the term "helping" illegals. He didn't say "bringing them across the border" or harboring (giving shelter or protection to) them. We weren't talking about smuggling people.

"Helping" illegals could mean taking up for the politically, which is NOT a crime.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#34 Jan 24, 2013
Independent wrote:
<quoted text>Penalties -- The basic statutory maximum penalty for violating 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1)(i) and (v)(I)(alien smuggling and conspiracy) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both. With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii), domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5 years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years. In addition, significant enhanced penalties are provided for in violations of 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1) involving serious bodily injury or placing life in jeopardy. Moreover, if the violation results in the death of any person, the defendant may be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years. The basic penalty for a violation of subsection 1324(a)(2) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(A). Enhanced penalties are provided for violations involving bringing in criminal aliens, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(B)(i), offenses done for commercial advantage or private financial gain, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(B)(ii), and violations where the alien is not presented to an immigration officer immediately upon arrival, 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(2)(B)(iii). A mandatory minimum three year term of imprisonment applies to first or second violations of § 1324(a)(2)(B)(i) or (B)(ii). Further enhanced punishment is provided for third or subsequent offenses.
Up to 10 years in prison, seems pretty serious to me ,an educated smart guy like you wouldn't make it 10 min.
I'm not sure where this cut and paste "interpretation" of the code comes from, but it is NOT the actual code.

It's easy to see that what you posted is NOT the actual code, because aside from the editorial lead in, it uses words that do not appear in the actual code (e.g. "aiding" and "abetting")- go ahead and do a search for those words on the actual code in the link below, you won't find them.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1324

The stuff you were loosely referring to were penalties for smuggling people across the border or hiding them from Federal agents.

It does NOT pertain to speaking up for them politically (NOT illegal), doing business with them (NOT illegal), or even hiring them (a misdemeanor).
Independent

Winchester, IN

#35 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure where this cut and paste "interpretation" of the code comes from, but it is NOT the actual code.
It's easy to see that what you posted is NOT the actual code, because aside from the editorial lead in, it uses words that do not appear in the actual code (e.g. "aiding" and "abetting")- go ahead and do a search for those words on the actual code in the link below, you won't find them.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1324
The stuff you were loosely referring to were penalties for smuggling people across the border or hiding them from Federal agents.
It does NOT pertain to speaking up for them politically (NOT illegal), doing business with them (NOT illegal), or even hiring them (a misdemeanor).
"With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii), domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5 years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years.
Even if a contractor that you have hired brings illegal aliens to do work and you know this you are "aiding/abetting," so you are in violation. You know this and you encourage the use of illegals over legal citizens.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#36 Jan 24, 2013
Independent wrote:
<quoted text>"With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C.§ 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii), domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5 years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years.
Even if a contractor that you have hired brings illegal aliens to do work and you know this you are "aiding/abetting," so you are in violation. You know this and you encourage the use of illegals over legal citizens.
Don't be so lazy. Stop cutting and pasting some interpretation of the code from Rush Limbaugh's web site (or wherever you got that from).

The only time the term "aids and abets" appears in the actual code is at the bottom of the section below:

"(a) Criminal penalties
(1)
(A) Any person who—
(i) knowing that a person is an alien, brings to or attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside in the United States and regardless of any future official action which may be taken with respect to such alien;
(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;
(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;
(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or
(v)
(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B). "

Those 4 clauses, to which the "punishment" may be applicable are all about enticing Mexicans to cross the border, bringing illegals into the country, or concealing them from the Federal government.

It's not about standing up for the politically, or even hiring them (there is another section about hiring them, but only pertains to large numbers of 10 or more). However, most employers who do hire them know there is next to no chance of being caught, and even if they are, the fines are not a big deal, so they probably just consider it part of the cost of doing business.

The actual act of entering illegally is a misdemeanor punishable by a small fine.

As we discuss this, millions of illegals are working in the USA, hired knowingly or unknowingly, by everything from private individuals to small business to large corporations. This happens every day, and almost none of them will ever be fined. Sure, there will be a high profile raid every now and then, but everyone knows it's just for show, and that the real risk to any business owner who hires them is minimal.

That's why we have so many illegals here- if businesses (and, to a lesser degree, private individuals) weren't willing to hire them, they wouldn't come.

As long as American businesses and the American people want illegals, you will never stop the flow. It's just like the insane "War on Drugs"- the "war" will never be won until the DEMAND goes down- as long as the demand for drugs (or foreign workers) is high, it will continue.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#37 Jan 24, 2013
I would add one other thing.

For those that come here not to work, but rather to collect benefits, the easiest way to stop them is not putting up a wall- it's to STOP THE WELFARE BENEFITS to them.

I am NOT in favor of having the leeches here, but I have no problem with those who come to work.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#38 Jan 24, 2013
Er, I wrote a long rant, but it disappeared.

I was referring to the long rant in the post where I wrote "I would add one more thing."

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#39 Jan 24, 2013
Okay, it's back now.

Topix is acting up- maybe it's trying to tell me to stop wasting my time here.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#40 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
Okay, it's back now.
Topix is acting up- maybe it's trying to tell me to stop wasting my time here.
Or, perhaps it is telling you to quit wasting our time here.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#41 Jan 24, 2013
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
Or, perhaps it is telling you to quit wasting our time here.
If you didn't have time to waste, you wouldn't be here.
Independent

Winchester, IN

#42 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
I would add one other thing.
For those that come here not to work, but rather to collect benefits, the easiest way to stop them is not putting up a wall- it's to STOP THE WELFARE BENEFITS to them.
I am NOT in favor of having the leeches here, but I have no problem with those who come to work.
Heres a little more, you left this out for some reason
(B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs—
(i) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i) or (v)(I) or in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii),(iii), or (iv) in which the offense was done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;
(ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii),(iii),(iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
(iii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i),(ii),(iii),(iv), or (v) during and in relation to which the person causes serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of title 18) to, or places in jeopardy the life of, any person, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
(iv) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i),(ii),(iii),(iv), or (v) resulting in the death of any person, be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined under title 18, or both.
Independent

Winchester, IN

#43 Jan 24, 2013
libertarian4321 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you didn't have time to waste, you wouldn't be here.
Yep, just a misdemeanor,

i) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i) or (v)(I) or in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii),(iii), or (iv) in which the offense was done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;
new hammer time

United States

#44 Jan 24, 2013
spytheweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I'am a democrat and say, deport them all. They are not US citizens, can't make it any plainer than that. They are citizens of another country and are here without any legal status. They have a country.
BTW, illegal aliens can not join the military unless they do it through fraud.
First of all, I sh*t on you for being a Democrat. Second of all, you`re ignorant because the blacks are ten times worse. Get your priorities straight. I know you dirty demo`s use blacks to swindle votes for political power, but seriously, it`s so wrong for this country. And I say this with respect for you.

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