The President has failed us

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This week, I decided to list the reasons I would not vote for Barack Obama in the next election.

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“Happy Easter!”

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#61918
Nov 18, 2012
 

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SATURDAY, NOV 17, 2012 08:00 AM PST

Conservatives’ crisis of confidence

Weeks after the election, the right is still lashing out. Are Republicans doomed to their own echo chamber?

BY AMANDA MARCOTTE, THE AMERICAN PROSPECT


As Democrats continue to bask in the post-election schadenfreude of watching Republicans weep and gnash their teeth at losing the presidential election, the sense that conservatives are the architects of their own misery is only enhancing liberal glee. It seems the initial shock hasn’t warn off: In a conference call with his fundraising team, Mitt Romney is still blaming his loss on those freeloading Americans who wanted stuff.

Clearly, the only explanation for all this delusion is that conservative media and campaign consultants, steeped in years of confidently lying about everything from global warming to the causes of the deficit, got a little too bold about their ability to create their own realities. The only question is whether conservatives will learn their lesson and exhibit more skepticism about their self-selected news media in the future.

The answer is almost surely no, for a very good reason: Conservative credulousness is so baked into the culture of the right that it could well be considered a defining feature. This has been true for as long as movement conservatism as we know it has existed, and there’s no real reason to think conservatives are going to sharpen up about this now.

Before the election, historian Rick Perlstein published an essay examining the long history of intra-conservative con artistry in The Baffler, with a heavy focus on the way conservative publications and mail-order fundraisers exploit audience gullibility to sell people snake oil and convince them to give to “causes” that never see much, if any, of the money. Perlstein’s aim was to explain why it is that conservatives didn’t seem to mind Romney’s nonstop lying, even though his constantly changing positions made it unclear which lie he’d be backing if he ever made it to the presidency. Perlstein argued that after years of training themselves to enjoy the garbage shoveled out by their media outlets, conservatives have come to rely on lying as a kind of comfort blanket, a way to know that they are with their own people.

It’s time, in other words, to consider whether Romney’s fluidity with the truth is, in fact, a feature and not a bug: a constituent part of his appeal to conservatives. The point here is not just that he lies when he says conservative things, even if he believes something different in his heart of hearts — but that lying is what makes you sound the way a conservative is supposed to sound, in pretty much the same way that curlicuing all around the note makes you sound like a contestant on American Idol is supposed to sound.

There are post-election lessons to be learned from how movement conservatism has long housed weirder claims than run-of-the-mill climate-change denialism. Perlstein cites examples such as claiming naps cure cancer better than chemo or that grandmothers can trust their dollars are going to Bibles in Africa when they’re simply being pocketed by fundraisers. Stanley Kubrick mocked this tendency in Dr. Strangelove when a character repeats a popular ’60s-era right-wing urban legend about fluoridated water being communist mind control.(This fear still haunts the right, as demonstrated by Georgia state senators convening a meeting last month to discuss Obama’s supposed communist mind-control plot.) The lesson in all this for the rest of us: Right-wingers don’t really have the same relationship to the truth that we do. They aren’t just creating their own truth for comfort but also to mark themselves as members of the tribe....(cont.)

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...
MITT THE TWIT

Temecula, CA

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#61919
Nov 18, 2012
 

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I'M A LOSER

http://youtu.be/D3Eu7NdzQac

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No Left Winger

Rochester, MN

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#61920
Nov 18, 2012
 

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ROB THE VOTE
Here's how touchscreens killed Romney votes
You won't believe what machine expert claims
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/heres-how-touchscr...
higgans

Marion, IN

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#61922
Nov 18, 2012
 

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REWBA wrote:
<quoted text>
Predictions are based upon past events. It's not like we haven't had states secede in the past. Look at the last time states seceded and chances are, what took place in the past will happen again should states choose to secede in the future.
Men who had careers in the military mad a choice. Stay with the Union or secede with the south. Those who went with the traitors fell off payroll. Those who stuck with the Union continued to receive pay and benefits.
Southern businessmen with assets in the north watched as their northern assets were seized by the Union. We didn't give those assets back after the war. Southerners made a choice and so they reap what they sow.
American citizens who reside abroad are called expats and they continue to receive social security and retirement pay as long as they maintain a stateside mailing address but there is a difference between traveling abroad and dissolving all ties through secession.
Residents of seceding states either choose to move and remain a US citizen or they become foreigners with no right to benefits reserved for citizens.
That is something that the people of those states aught to consider before allowing ignorant talibaggers to drag them into a secession.
Here in the USA, we don't take too kindly to traitors and tyrants. You don't get out unscathed. Blood in Blood out.
people thinking about secession are not like voters: frightened by threats of taking AWAY the FG teat. it is the FG they fear.
I could say something about people taking steps to change adresses, move assets, etc. but WHY?
let's wait and see what the dis-satisified HALF of the voting citizenry do to protect THEIR Liberties/Freedoms. the Prog/Dem scare tactics don't work so well in Congressional elections. let's see how they work in the next Senatorial races.
in 2008, u'all claimed a MANDATE and then 2010 happened.lol
expect States to practice ever more nullification of FG policies, tho.
c'mon WorkFare!
Face the Facts

Rochelle, IL

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#61923
Nov 18, 2012
 

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Those Union workers that you refer to as the "middle class" or the "working class" don't need any help destroying themselves, they are doing a great job of it already.
Those Union's don't seem to feel bad about destroying the lower income people.
I have a fact for those "working class/middle class" union folks. > They aren't the only people who work for a living and if they feel they are being cheated or being treated unfairly they should step aside and let some of the real men get the job done.

“Happy Easter!”

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#61924
Nov 18, 2012
 

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"Right-wingers don’t really have the same relationship to the truth that we do. They aren’t just creating their own truth for comfort but also to mark themselves as members of the tribe."

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...
Face the Facts

Rochelle, IL

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#61925
Nov 18, 2012
 
that post was ment to reply to a former posting by Protector or what ever his name was

“Happy Easter!”

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Part of the problem is the word “believe.” In many cases,“believe” can be used interchangeably with words like “know,”“understand” and “accept.” I believe that my dinner will be a burrito. I believe in the theory of evolution. But the word also stands in for ideological stances. Then there are “beliefs” that serve to align individuals with other conservatives. Believing that climate change is a hoax, that Obama is a foreign national, or that ACORN stole the 2008 election: These beliefs have more symbolic than literal meaning to those who hold them. They are to being a conservative what believing in the Virgin Birth is to being a Christian.

The mind set of reaffirming core principles in every conversation has become the dominant way of communicating in conservative circles. Some of this stems from the heavy overlap with evangelical Christianity, where evangelical-specific urban legends run rampant. Religion blogger Fred Clark used as an example of the Christian myth that Proctor & Gamble was run by Satanists, pointing out that people who share this story do so to prop up their identity as loyal evangelicals more than to make a factual observation about the world.

Liberals understand very well how conservative nonsense serves political ends — by rationalizing attacks on reproductive rights or stalling regulations aimed at reducing greenhouse emissions — but equally important is the way that bullshit plays this role in establishing that the bullshit-believer belongs to the conservative club.

The devotion to untruth serves right wing’s emotional needs as well. Movement conservatives take discomfort with the changing nation and channel it into a belief that everyone outside of the conservative tribe is out to get them. Everything else flows from that. If the real world is out to get you, reality-based knowledge — especially that mediated by perceived “liberal elites”— becomes suspect. So many urban legends in conservative circles center around the idea that the outside world is conspiring against them, such as fevered claims of “voter fraud” or Reagan-era claims of welfare cheats making three figures defrauding the taxpayer.

From characterizing everyone Not-Them as “moochers” to the persistent suspicion that Obama faked his birth certificate in an effort to take the presidency from someone who actually has a right to it, conservatives fantasize that the mostly older, white population moving further and further to the right is being oppressed by the various groups liberals have forced them to share power with. To give that up would be to completely reorder their world. As painful as it is to grasp the reality of Obama’s win, it’s safe to say they’re going to go right back to putting their faith in fantasy instead of the realities that the rest of us live in.

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...

“Happy Easter!”

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#61927
Nov 18, 2012
 

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"The devotion to untruth serves right wing’s emotional needs as well. Movement conservatives take discomfort with the changing nation and channel it into a belief that everyone outside of the conservative tribe is out to get them. Everything else flows from that. If the real world is out to get you, reality-based knowledge — especially that mediated by perceived “liberal elites”— becomes suspect. So many urban legends in conservative circles center around the idea that the outside world is conspiring against them, such as fevered claims of “voter fraud” or Reagan-era claims of welfare cheats making three figures defrauding the taxpayer."

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...

“Happy Easter!”

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#61928
Nov 18, 2012
 

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And nothing highlights and confirms the truth of this article than many of the posts on these threads. All the lies, the conspiracy theories, the distorted misinformation is what the conservatives on this Forum promote. They have no interest in TRUTH or REALITY. It's only what they create or fantasize.

The article says it all. I highly recommend reading it.

"From characterizing everyone Not-Them as “moochers” to the persistent suspicion that Obama faked his birth certificate in an effort to take the presidency from someone who actually has a right to it, conservatives fantasize that the mostly older, white population moving further and further to the right is being oppressed by the various groups liberals have forced them to share power with. To give that up would be to completely reorder their world. As painful as it is to grasp the reality of Obama’s win, it’s safe to say they’re going to go right back to putting their faith in fantasy instead of the realities that the rest of us live in."

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...
Face the Facts

Rochelle, IL

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#61929
Nov 18, 2012
 

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Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike Republicans who FEAR checking out liberal links, I not only read the article, I critiqued it.
It was full of opinion, presented as facts, but without ANY proof at all.
It's an old article, designed to panic idiot conservatives into donating, and I guess they figured if it made money once, it will again.
It seems that if any of the author's predictions had come true, he would've included that, but there was nothing said.
Bottom line:
It's the same old conservative garbage = People are trying to profit by lying to dumb people, getting them angry at liberals to keep stepping up the Republican Civil War, panicking them about what 'will' happen because liberals are out to destroy them, etc.
The point of the article will escape every conservative: The rich traitors are still working to destroy the middle class (and the USA), with the help of the conservative middle class traitors.
Those Union workers that you refer to as the "middle class" or the "working class" don't need any help destroying themselves, they are doing a great job of it already.
Those Union's don't seem to feel bad about destroying the lower income people.
I have a fact for those "working class/middle class" union folks. > They aren't the only people who work for a living and if they feel they are being cheated or being treated unfairly they should step aside and let some of the real men get the job done.
Face the Facts

Rochelle, IL

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#61930
Nov 18, 2012
 

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The rich traitors are the hollywood liberals, those who pay for obama or some other leftwing sack of it. Those are the traitors you must have been refering too

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#61931
Nov 18, 2012
 

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REWBA wrote:
<quoted text>
You are one ignorant judgmental fool. Have you ever stopped to ponder the possibility that those "'welfare commandos' driving around in nice cars, faces riveted on their smart phones with unlimited data plans, paying for premium cuts of meat at the store with food stamps, etc." might just be shopping for a person so disabled that they cannot shop for themselves?
I have a full time job. Always have. I've also provided financial management and personal care for adults with severe disabilities. And YES! There have been many times that I stood at a cash register, all dressed up in my business suit, wearing my gold and diamond jewelry talking on my smart phone as the cashier rang up the meat and potatoes I was buying for my client as the poorly dressed stinking tea turd behind me complained under his breath to his grossly obese better half about my use of food stamps. And YES! I always walked slowly to my nice car so that them uneducated pigs can have something else to bitch about.
You are the ignorant fool who thinks THAT many are so disabled they can't shop for themselves and have people shop for them. You libturds always seem to have an excuse for big gov't spending on entitlements while turning a blind eye to fraud and freeloading. Then, you turn around and want to tax the crap out of the rich and eventually, everyone else to keep up the bloated spending. Never once has any of you liberal turds talked about SERIOUSLY rooting out fraud waste and abuse to these programs. The first thing is always 'we need more money', and never we need to cut out the waste and really crack down on the abusers. Until I see a real concerted effort to crack down on all the fraudsters, my view of these bloated, democratic championed programs won't change as a way of buying votes to keep getting reelected and at the same time getting people used to gov't dependency.
No Left Winger

Rochester, MN

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#61935
Nov 18, 2012
 

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Timeline: From Founding Through the American Revolution
http://www.ushistory.org/washingtoncrossing/h...
MITT THE TWIT

Temecula, CA

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#61936
Nov 18, 2012
 

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I'm A LOSER

http://youtu.be/ut5A_r5iiOg

Beck / Southpark

“Extremism is no virtue”

Since: Mar 07

My orchids in bloom

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#61939
Nov 18, 2012
 

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EAGLE EYE1 wrote:
<quoted text>
2009 data?? Ok let me know when the government plans to buy all the hospitals and hire all the docs and HC workers..
"In 2009, the U.S. spent $7,960 per person on health care, and the closest contenders were Switzerland ($5,144 per person) and Netherlands ($4,914)."
So at 8k a year what was your problem with Romney and Ryan on the 8k vouchers again??
Eagle
Vouchers are an ineffective substitute when health care is a "for profit" free market enterprise. We can't control costs with vouchers, and that would leave Medicare beneficiaries a very big hole to close over time. Competition does NOT drive costs down or keep them in check under the model. The article below is a really good window on the problems and speaks about the positive aspects of the model in Canada:

Why Healthcare Costs Trillions Less in Canada

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content/QUA...

As always before a major election, there's the chorus of threats. "If so and so wins, I'm moving to Canada." (Groan.) "This country is broke, and out of control, and we're all going to hell in a hand-basket."

And so it went this year, except that in 2012, many a Twitter tirade blamed the healthcare reform law—aka Obamacare, aka the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act—now on its way to full implementation, for the urge among the electorate to flee the country.

I paraphrase, but some of the unenlightened comments went like this: "I'm moving to Winnipeg. Don't want the government controlling my life or my healthcare."

Here's the irony: The Maple Leaf nation's government-paid healthcare system, which requires few if any co-payments or deductibles, may provide much higher quality of healthcare services at a fraction of the spending compared with the Medicare program in the United States.

In a research letter in the Archives of Internal Medicine Oct. 29, Harvard physicians and professors David Himmelstein, MD and Steffie Woolhandler, MD, put the comparison into perspective for people 65 and older.

They used U.S. Medicare actuarial data dating back 30 years. They excluded payments for the disabled and patients on dialysis under 65, but included Medicare Advantage, and compared it with comparable Canadian Medicare healthcare cost data from three sources.
Here's what they found:

Between 1980 and 2009, Medicare spending per beneficiary in the U.S. rose from $1,215 to $9,446, which was a 198% increase after adjusting for inflation. But in Canada, comparable spending rose from $2,141 to $9,292, or an inflation-adjusted rate of 73%. Think of it this way: for every $10 spent on services in the U.S., Canada spent $3.36.

In Canada, government healthcare spending paid for a greater offering of benefits (which is why Canada's 1980 spending was higher than that in America), covering 80% of total healthcare costs for seniors. In the United States, Medicare pays for about 50% of seniors' healthcare expenses.

If Medicare costs had risen at Canada's pace, projected savings would have totaled $154.2 billion in 2009 and $2.156 trillion from 1980 to 2009.

I know what you're thinking. These two idealists are notorious and unrepentant single-payer advocates who founded Physicians for a National Health Program. But like it or not, these are the numbers they got.

(cont.)

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---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
"The devotion to untruth serves right wing’s emotional needs as well. Movement conservatives take discomfort with the changing nation and channel it into a belief that everyone outside of the conservative tribe is out to get them. Everything else flows from that. If the real world is out to get you, reality-based knowledge — especially that mediated by perceived “liberal elites”— becomes suspect. So many urban legends in conservative circles center around the idea that the outside world is conspiring against them, such as fevered claims of “voter fraud” or Reagan-era claims of welfare cheats making three figures defrauding the taxpayer."
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...
Salon??????????

Pffft!!!!!

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---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
And nothing highlights and confirms the truth of this article than many of the posts on these threads. All the lies, the conspiracy theories, the distorted misinformation is what the conservatives on this Forum promote. They have no interest in TRUTH or REALITY. It's only what they create or fantasize.
The article says it all. I highly recommend reading it.
"From characterizing everyone Not-Them as “moochers” to the persistent suspicion that Obama faked his birth certificate in an effort to take the presidency from someone who actually has a right to it, conservatives fantasize that the mostly older, white population moving further and further to the right is being oppressed by the various groups liberals have forced them to share power with. To give that up would be to completely reorder their world. As painful as it is to grasp the reality of Obama’s win, it’s safe to say they’re going to go right back to putting their faith in fantasy instead of the realities that the rest of us live in."
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...
Salon??????

Pffft!!!!!

“Extremism is no virtue”

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#61943
Nov 18, 2012
 

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fishaholic wrote:
<quoted text>
We're talking about obama, not about Bush. You have no argument so you resort to what happened in the Bush admin. Classic (but tiresome) liberal tactic. That is water under the bridge. We're talking about 4 US citizens that lost their lives and the president "doesn't know nuthin''bout nuthin'." We're talking about 2 US LE officials murdered and several HUNDRED Mexican citizens that have lost their lives and the president "doesn't know nuthin''bout nuthin'." We're talking about the head of the CIA being investigated MONTHS ago and the president "doesn't know nuthin''bout nuthin'." He doesn't need to be president if he doesn't know what's going on with his own administration.
I think it's you who doesn't know nuthin''bout nothin'. The President has commented about the attacks on Susan Rice, and when the investigations are concluded, he will undoubtedly have more to say on the situation, what went wrong, and what is being put into place to prevent it happening again (if it could have been or can be prevented in the future).

The President doesn't control the war on drugs in Mexico, but we have done everything we can do to assist without direct military involvement, and we can't engage in that way and meddle in the affairs of a foreign nation who is our ally and trading partner wherein Billions of dollars of U.S. private investment sits. What do you expect him to do? Send armed soldiers across the border to wage war? Unless Mexico destabilizes completely (insurrection), that won't happen.

Please get it through your rock hard skull that the FBI conducts investigations at arm's length from whatever Administration is serving, and the Agency is not compelled to convey any ongoing investigation that doesn't demonstrate a possibility of compromise of classified intelligence or national security risk (spying, etc.). The Petraeus investigation (from all we know at the moment) didn't rise to that level. It was about crossing the line of ethics that might have set him up for blackmail. When enough facts were gathered, the White House was notified. The President could not have demanded what he didn't know even existed. That's how it works, and if you don't like it, lobby Congress to change the law again so that future Administrations can potentially strong arm our security agencies and prevent them from getting to the bottom of potential national security risks.

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---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
SATURDAY, NOV 17, 2012 08:00 AM PST
Conservatives’ crisis of confidence
Weeks after the election, the right is still lashing out. Are Republicans doomed to their own echo chamber?
BY AMANDA MARCOTTE, THE AMERICAN PROSPECT
As Democrats continue to bask in the post-election schadenfreude of watching Republicans weep and gnash their teeth at losing the presidential election, the sense that conservatives are the architects of their own misery is only enhancing liberal glee. It seems the initial shock hasn’t warn off: In a conference call with his fundraising team, Mitt Romney is still blaming his loss on those freeloading Americans who wanted stuff.
Clearly, the only explanation for all this delusion is that conservative media and campaign consultants, steeped in years of confidently lying about everything from global warming to the causes of the deficit, got a little too bold about their ability to create their own realities. The only question is whether conservatives will learn their lesson and exhibit more skepticism about their self-selected news media in the future.
The answer is almost surely no, for a very good reason: Conservative credulousness is so baked into the culture of the right that it could well be considered a defining feature. This has been true for as long as movement conservatism as we know it has existed, and there’s no real reason to think conservatives are going to sharpen up about this now.
Before the election, historian Rick Perlstein published an essay examining the long history of intra-conservative con artistry in The Baffler, with a heavy focus on the way conservative publications and mail-order fundraisers exploit audience gullibility to sell people snake oil and convince them to give to “causes” that never see much, if any, of the money. Perlstein’s aim was to explain why it is that conservatives didn’t seem to mind Romney’s nonstop lying, even though his constantly changing positions made it unclear which lie he’d be backing if he ever made it to the presidency. Perlstein argued that after years of training themselves to enjoy the garbage shoveled out by their media outlets, conservatives have come to rely on lying as a kind of comfort blanket, a way to know that they are with their own people.
It’s time, in other words, to consider whether Romney’s fluidity with the truth is, in fact, a feature and not a bug: a constituent part of his appeal to conservatives. The point here is not just that he lies when he says conservative things, even if he believes something different in his heart of hearts — but that lying is what makes you sound the way a conservative is supposed to sound, in pretty much the same way that curlicuing all around the note makes you sound like a contestant on American Idol is supposed to sound.
There are post-election lessons to be learned from how movement conservatism has long housed weirder claims than run-of-the-mill climate-change denialism. Perlstein cites examples such as claiming naps cure cancer better than chemo or that grandmothers can trust their dollars are going to Bibles in Africa when they’re simply being pocketed by fundraisers. Stanley Kubrick mocked this tendency in Dr. Strangelove when a character repeats a popular ’60s-era right-wing urban legend about fluoridated water being communist mind control.(This fear still haunts the right, as demonstrated by Georgia state senators convening a meeting last month to discuss Obama’s supposed communist mind-control plot.) The lesson in all this for the rest of us: Right-wingers don’t really have the same relationship to the truth that we do. They aren’t just creating their own truth for comfort but also to mark themselves as members of the tribe....(cont.)
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/17/conservatives...
Salon is a progressive liberal online magazine, with content updated each weekday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon.com

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