Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion

He has had nitty-gritty street experiences absent in the resumes of most aspirants for the Oval Office: He worked in poor neighborhoods to get job training for the unemployed and found ways to reach school ...

[anon]

I don't think he's equating having a baby being punishment- I think he's standing for the opposite. He wants our kids, our future to view their future children as gifts, not punishment. And forcing that kind of responsibility on someone who's not ready- that won't help support the idea that it's a wonderful thing.

''But if they make a mistake,'' Obama continued,''I don't want them punished with a baby.''

I think right here he's pushing that having a child shouldn't be viewed that way, shouldn't be viewed as a punishment. It should be a good, joyous, loving time, and forcing it on someone isn't the way to do it.

"sex is not something casual."

I think he's much more strongly speaking out... education, morals, family. A beautiful thing, not a punishment, and some of us have to stop seeing it that way.

"Is candidate Obama pleased those women were not ''punished'' with babies?"

Yes! and I would believe, proud of the percentage had children when they were ready- who raised the idea of family, and having children to being something for those who truly want it, are ready for it.

[Lynn]

anon wrote:

I don't think he's equating having a baby being punishment- I think he's standing for the opposite. He wants our kids, our future to view their future children as gifts, not punishment. And forcing that kind of responsibility on someone who's not ready- that won't help support the idea that it's a wonderful thing.
''But if they make a mistake,'' Obama continued,''I don't want them punished with a baby.''
I think right here he's pushing that having a child shouldn't be viewed that way, shouldn't be viewed as a punishment. It should be a good, joyous, loving time, and forcing it on someone isn't the way to do it.
"sex is not something casual."
I think he's much more strongly speaking out... education, morals, family. A beautiful thing, not a punishment, and some of us have to stop seeing it that way.
"Is candidate Obama pleased those women were not ''punished'' with babies?"
Yes! and I would believe, proud of the percentage had children when they were ready- who raised the idea of family, and having children to being something for those who truly want it, are ready for it.

simply put...you are wrong. you are misinterpreting and manipulating his comments to make him appear better and more humane than he really is.

[Schnecksville Resident]

Obama has the second most liberal voting record in the senate. Why won't liberals proudly claim thier standing. I am a proud conservative, but would vote for Hillary over Obama any day. Obama is scary.

[Brewhound]

Here's the problem with partial birth abortion. The religious right wants the practice banned altogether, no matter what the circumstances. There are cases, not many, but still cases where a partial birth abortion is required due to health situations, where the mothers life is put at risk. Therefore, these situations should be allowed for partial birth abortions. But you can't even debate this point with the bible-thumpers. These are the same people who believe if a girl is impregnated due to rape they should still be forced to give birth to the baby. These people are nuts, archaic, and will be the downfall of our country.

[Agreed]

Brewhound wrote:

Here's the problem with partial birth abortion. The religious right wants the practice banned altogether, no matter what the circumstances. There are cases, not many, but still cases where a partial birth abortion is required due to health situations, where the mothers life is put at risk. Therefore, these situations should be allowed for partial birth abortions. But you can't even debate this point with the bible-thumpers. These are the same people who believe if a girl is impregnated due to rape they should still be forced to give birth to the baby. These people are nuts, archaic, and will be the downfall of our country.

And they have more power than anyone realizes.

[Agreed]

Brewhound wrote:

Here's the problem with partial birth abortion. The religious right wants the practice banned altogether, no matter what the circumstances. There are cases, not many, but still cases where a partial birth abortion is required due to health situations, where the mothers life is put at risk. Therefore, these situations should be allowed for partial birth abortions. But you can't even debate this point with the bible-thumpers. These are the same people who believe if a girl is impregnated due to rape they should still be forced to give birth to the baby. These people are nuts, archaic, and will be the downfall of our country.

I hit "post" before I could add, "IT'S SCARY."

[stupid brewhound]

In a PARTIAL BIRTH abortion they deliver the babies head then stop the baby coming out and put a knife in the babies neck and suck out the brains. Now how can stopping the birthing process to do the proceedure help a heath issue of the mother? It is amazing that your thoughts on this matter you would want to penn for everyone to see. IDIOT

[Tom H]

Schnecksville Resident wrote:

Obama has the second most liberal voting record in the senate. Why won't liberals proudly claim thier standing. I am a proud conservative, but would vote for Hillary over Obama any day. Obama is scary.

Yes, his voting record is scary. Couldnt the dems find anybody a bit more conservative and balanced. Hillary aint great, but she's better than Obama. He's way off.

[The Elder]

Brewhound wrote:

Here's the problem with partial birth abortion. The religious right wants the practice banned altogether, no matter what the circumstances. There are cases, not many, but still cases where a partial birth abortion is required due to health situations, where the mothers life is put at risk. Therefore, these situations should be allowed for partial birth abortions. But you can't even debate this point with the bible-thumpers. These are the same people who believe if a girl is impregnated due to rape they should still be forced to give birth to the baby. These people are nuts, archaic, and will be the downfall of our country.

The problem with "partial birth abortion" begins with the rhetorical phrase that has been coopted by the meddlesome, sometimes nefarious, patriarchal Supreme Court justices. Partial birth, as a propaganda maneuver, frames the debate as if the fetus, now baby, is viable; hence, partial birth. Nowhere is the woman mentioned. In the process of the debates about this issue or any debate about abortion, woman has lost her voice, her agency, her right to control over her reproductive needs.

Face the facts, women in this country are second-class citizens when it comes to reproductive health. The government burdens women and health care providers with policies and laws that favor a Christian conservative ideology, that support big pharmaceuticals through lucrative lobbying and favorable policies (Gardisil, anyone?), and that punish women of little means by denying access to adequate birth control, denying payments for abortion, and denying adequate support of her child.

Finally as food for thought, the abstinence only programs are a dismal failure that our news agencies fail to make public. Millions of dollars have been poured into these ill-conceived programs (much to the financial benefit of this current administration's cronies). What we are left with is an entire population of ill-informed adolescents and a teen population where 1 out 4 has a sexually-transmitted infection.

My suggestion to Brewhound, the author of this opinion, and to the citizenry at large is to stop the mcnugget mudslinging and start demanding more objective, indepth journalism of the news profiteers. Start demanding more from the presidential candidates.

[dayton]

Obama voted against the Born Alive Protection Act in the Illinois Senate because he thought that the the bill would be struck down as unconstitutional. The wording of the bill in his opinion was bad. You can read the transcripts here:
http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans...

Obama's comments start on page 85.
Considering that Obama taught Constitutional Law perhaps he knew what he was talking about.

On Fox News Sunday Obama said that he opposed the Partial Birth Abortion bill because he thought the states could handle the issue themselves (which is quite a conservative stance).

[cjbones1469]

Personally I believe that abortion should be legal for anyone who wants it, up to a certain point of the pregnacy, especcially in the century to come. These years when there are going to be millions of kids starving to death and living a very poor under priviledged lives. This world cannot and will not continue to support the millions of children we are having. There will come a time, if this mass of human breeding is not slowed, where it will be,in a sense, a puinishment to have a child.

[Due this summer]

stupid brewhound wrote:

In a PARTIAL BIRTH abortion they deliver the babies head then stop the baby coming out and put a knife in the babies neck and suck out the brains. Now how can stopping the birthing process to do the proceedure help a heath issue of the mother? It is amazing that your thoughts on this matter you would want to penn for everyone to see. IDIOT

Sometimes the only way to remove a fetus safely from a mother is to remove the fetus head-first. The extreme right has framed this debate (with very much skill) to invoke "birth" images. When the fetus is going to die anyway of a horrible disease or when Mom may die by carring it to term, it's not a birth--it's a life-saving procedure for someone in the room.

I've known 2 women who had second trimester abortions. One was carrying a very wanted fetus that would not have survived to birth because of a horrible genetic condition that wasn't caught until 16 weeks. Another person I know had a second trimester abortion due to dire health problems on Mom's end.

I am not so gouche as to ask how the fetus was removed and whether it meets the elements of the nebulous "partial birth abortion" procedure. I'm just glad those women lived.

When it comes right down to it, real living, breathing women have more priority to live than fetuses. If a woman wants to die of sepsis, bleeding, or carry a severely disabled/dead fetus until she labors naturally for religious and personal reasons, that's her decision.

In fact, it's her CHOICE.

[ummok]

As a mother of four, three of which are females, I also believe a woman has a right to choose. That is, choose whether or not to become pregnant to begin with. Birth control is accessible and free to many woman. We have the right to protect ourselves before getting into bed. I do however understand the reason to have an abortion in the event of rape and or medical problems for the mother. I don't believe we have the right to use it as a form of birth control. For Obama to say that if one of his girls made a mistake and he wouldn't want them to be punished with the birth of a child - well want happens when you make a mistake? You have to deal with the consequences of those mistakes. That's the problem today. Nobody wants to step up and take responsibility for their actions.

[ADH]

The Elder wrote:

<quoted text>
The problem with "partial birth abortion" begins with the rhetorical phrase that has been coopted by the meddlesome, sometimes nefarious, patriarchal Supreme Court justices. Partial birth, as a propaganda maneuver, frames the debate as if the fetus, now baby, is viable; hence, partial birth. Nowhere is the woman mentioned. In the process of the debates about this issue or any debate about abortion, woman has lost her voice, her agency, her right to control over her reproductive needs.
Face the facts, women in this country are second-class citizens when it comes to reproductive health. The government burdens women and health care providers with policies and laws that favor a Christian conservative ideology, that support big pharmaceuticals through lucrative lobbying and favorable policies (Gardisil, anyone?), and that punish women of little means by denying access to adequate birth control, denying payments for abortion, and denying adequate support of her child.
Finally as food for thought, the abstinence only programs are a dismal failure that our news agencies fail to make public. Millions of dollars have been poured into these ill-conceived programs (much to the financial benefit of this current administration's cronies). What we are left with is an entire population of ill-informed adolescents and a teen population where 1 out 4 has a sexually-transmitted infection.
My suggestion to Brewhound, the author of this opinion, and to the citizenry at large is to stop the mcnugget mudslinging and start demanding more objective, indepth journalism of the news profiteers. Start demanding more from the presidential candidates.

Women are not second class citizens. It is everyone's responsibility to take care of him or herself.

Women who have little means should have the common sense not to get pregnant in the first place. If they do get pregnant, it's not the taxpayers' responsibility to pay for their abortion or to raise their child.

[Mom of 4]

Brewhound wrote:

... There are cases, not many, but still cases where a partial birth abortion is required due to health situations, where the mothers life is put at risk. Therefore, these situations should be allowed for partial birth abortions.

I certainly would agree with you that there are situations where, for the sake of the health of the mother, the baby needs to be delivered.

However, can you name me a single benefit to the mother's physical health of killing the baby before the baby is born?

Let me help you a bit...

An article in the L.A. Times (8/28/96) listed some of the medical reasons for this type of abortion. They included cleft palates, cystic hygroma,(both easily corrected problems) and cystic fibrosis. The medical conditions present in the mother that warranted this type of abortion were,“depression, chicken pox, diabetes, vomiting ...” In other words, even those partial birth abortions that are done for the “health of the mother” or because of a “defective fetus” are often performed for minor, easily correctable conditions.

[doindawash]

dayton wrote:

Obama voted against the Born Alive Protection Act in the Illinois Senate because he thought that the the bill would be struck down as unconstitutional. The wording of the bill in his opinion was bad. You can read the transcripts here:
http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans...
Obama's comments start on page 85.
Considering that Obama taught Constitutional Law perhaps he knew what he was talking about.
On Fox News Sunday Obama said that he opposed the Partial Birth Abortion bill because he thought the states could handle the issue themselves (which is quite a conservative stance).

Thank you Dayton! I was all ready to show the facts as you have done! It's hard to sit and the read the threads when ppl are clueless as to what the FACTS are. It's too bad political choices many ppl make are based on incorrect information!

[frankie]

Just don't any of you go picking up for H.R.C. on the abortion issue.

She fully supports the partial birth abortion and any abortion on demand.

That fact is well documented.

[Mom of 4]

Due this summer wrote:

<quoted text>
Sometimes the only way to remove a fetus safely from a mother is to remove the fetus head-first.

Which would NOT be the technique referred to as "partial birth" abortion.

The extreme right has framed this debate (with very much skill) to invoke "birth" images. When the fetus is going to die anyway of a horrible disease or when Mom may die by carring it to term, it's not a birth--it's a life-saving procedure for someone in the room.

Actually, for MANY women in this situation, they do view it as a birth, and death, of a very loved child. They spend a lot of time trying to savor every possible moment with the child during pregnancy, and even the precious few minutes of life after the birth. They often have memorial services, and many even purchase a casket. Some hospitals and cemetaries have responded to this unique population by designating areas just for babies. This helps them with the mourning process. Here is one such example: http://audreycaroline.blogspot.com/

I have a lot of sympathy for these women, I can not begin to fathom the pain they go through. And really, even though I am very much pro-life, I do not judge a woman harshly who chooses to terminate a pregnancy when the baby would die anyway.

However, we do them a disservice when we fail to tell them that medical technology can be flawed--that a significant % of defects discovered on ultrasound or amniocentisis don't turn out to exist. I know of one woman who finally got pregnant after numerous attempts at fertility treatments--the "final try" being paid for with a mortgage on her parents house! Then she was told based on amnio and ultrasound that her 'son' had fatal defects, and that she should terminate. So with a sad heart, she had labor induced at 24 weeks. When her baby GIRL was born looking perfectly normal (and autopsy confirmed that she was), the comment from the OB was "dang those lab errors." We also do women a disservice when we refuse to realize that sometimes miracles DO happen--a couple in my church was told repeatedly that their unborn baby had fatal defects, right up until an ultrasound at about 36 weeks, when suddenly everything had "vanished." Their baby is now 2 years old, and perfectly healthy.

I do also know women who really struggled with their own health in pregnancy...and carried their babies as long as they possibly could before giving birth--generally via cesarean to spare trauma to the young baby who is not yet strong enough to handle vaginal birth. Just in the past year I have had two women close to me give birth at 29 and 30 weeks--obviously not optimal gestations! Their babies spent MONTHS in NICU. In none of the cases I know of did the health of the mother require active killing of the child.

[Mom of 4]

I should mention that an obvious exception to my statement about needing to actively kill a child to preserve the mother's health is an ectopic pregnancy...

[Why]

ummok wrote:

As a mother of four, three of which are females, I also believe a woman has a right to choose. That is, choose whether or not to become pregnant to begin with. Birth control is accessible and free to many woman. We have the right to protect ourselves before getting into bed. I do however understand the reason to have an abortion in the event of rape and or medical problems for the mother. I don't believe we have the right to use it as a form of birth control. For Obama to say that if one of his girls made a mistake and he wouldn't want them to be punished with the birth of a child - well want happens when you make a mistake? You have to deal with the consequences of those mistakes. That's the problem today. Nobody wants to step up and take responsibility for their actions.

I agree with every point you make. People need to realize there are consequences when they crawl into bed with someone. Those consequences include unwanted pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and emotional issues. A baby shouldn't be punished for the actions of an immature person who isn't ready to take responsibility for their own actions.