People do not need assault weapons: defense secretary

Jan 17, 2013 Full story: Reuters 4,995

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta joined the gun control debate on Thursday when he told troops at a military base in Italy that only soldiers needed armor-piercing bullets or assault weapons.

Full Story

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#2191 Feb 7, 2013
Fascism (Mussolinism) is a "Bundling of Italian industries" under Govt control, a demand economy. Hitler recognized the value to German rearmament and incorporated into his plans for the thousand year Reich. The point was to have total industrial control by the state, yet take full advantage of the administrative and managerial experience. But unlike the Russian experience, there were no purges.
My president was elected by dead people!
Regards, Terri

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2192 Feb 7, 2013
TerryE wrote:
Fascism (Mussolinism) is a "Bundling of Italian industries" under Govt control, a demand economy. Hitler recognized the value to German rearmament and incorporated into his plans for the thousand year Reich. The point was to have total industrial control by the state, yet take full advantage of the administrative and managerial experience. But unlike the Russian experience, there were no purges.
My president was elected by dead people!
Regards, Terri
.... hmmmmmmm. That sounds familliar. Seems like that's happening here today.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2193 Feb 7, 2013
Hot topic yesterday was Ruby Ridge and Waco.

The courts ruled that Randy Weaver acted legitimately when he resisted the government's illegal action against him.
I might add that every argument form the Democrats began with the propaganda lie that Randy Weaver was a "white separatist".
Prove it.

The same BATF agent in charge at Ruby Ridge was the BATF agent in charge at Waco.
The only reasonable argument from the Democrats was a listing of the supposed weapons found at Waco that had so many mistakes in the list, it lost all credibility.
Not mentioned was the very first weapon listed on the search warrant that nobody was allowed to see for over a week after the assault occurred because, for some reason, it was "sealed". That weapon was a .50 cal M2 heavy machine gun, which never existed. Every other weapon listed on the search warrant was legal.
There is no video or audio evidence that any automatic weapon was used at Waco. The only evidence of automatic weapons at Waco is the testimony of the government where they say the cult opened fire on them from an ambush with machine guns and killed 4 BATF agents, then the BATF agents returned fire with 9mm pistols and killed 6 cult members.

should we continue?

“Moderately yours....”

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#2194 Feb 7, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a difficult thing to understand. To me, McVeigh seemed to be driven by two motivations: revenge and love of an ideal. Each person has their own threshold where such motivations cause action. Obviously, McVeigh's threshold was exceeded.
I try to apply differring perspectives. Suppose someone killed my family. Would that cause me to seek revenge on them? Would that cause me to start killing their family, similar to something like the Hatfield McCoy feud?
I don't think so. But, that reality has not been presented to me, so I obviously don't know what I would do.
I believe it is best to study the whole episode, and not confine oneself to the portion of the event being given all the attention.
In one of my early posts I summed up my thoughts.
Larry Potts should have been on the gurney right next to McVeigh.
I think that statement sums up my complete conclusions.
Revenge for the killing of your family would be justified on a person to person basis. If Larry Potts had killed McVeigh's family, if on the jury, I would not be in favor of convicting him of murder if Larry Potts were the only person killed in revenge.
However applying this to McVeigh in any way has two major logical flaws.
First no one in McVeigh's family was killed, period.
And even if his entire family were killed, and Potts were in that building, he killed innocent as well. That fact makes arguing some kind of revenge motive vulgar and obscene. As an act of war that type of intentional killing of innocents would be a war crime in my book.
I really think that making some kind of connection between the two is an absurd attempt to give McVeigh some sort of fig leaf of legitimate action. The connection to Potts, justifying OKC was only in Mcveigh's mind, and yours. If you are claiming that this 'threshold' that spurred him into action was justified by love of an ideal, you must recognize the fraud against logic and morality you are committing.
First there is no connection between any one in that building and anything that happened to McViegh.
Second to forgive or even 'understand the motives' of excesses of this nature, renders the cause obscene.
McViegh was full of obscene political concepts, his crime was fashioned from his obsession with 'The Turner Diaries', understanding his motive makes me gag.
Truthfully how many times have you read that book, and did you find your self in political agreement with it

“Uzi Does It”

Since: Nov 08

UZILAND

#2195 Feb 7, 2013
Now you know why we the people need so called "assault rifles".

http://www.marinij.com/tablehome/ci_22535813/...

7 Calif. deputies to be fired for roles in clique

By TAMI ABDOLLAH Associated Press

Posted: 02/06/2013 06:07:24 PM PST

LOS ANGELES—Seven Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies from an anti-gang unit have been notified that the department intends to fire them for being members of a secret law enforcement clique that allegedly encouraged unethical conduct.
Sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore said Wednesday the deputies were sent the letters this week after an internal investigation of their activities as members of a group called the Jump Out Boys.

The deputies were members of the Sheriff's Gang Enforcement Team.

Law enforcement officials say the concern was that the group, with its matching tattoos and a creed seemingly promoting shootings, violated the department's core values.

All seven were placed on paid leave during the probe. Investigators found no evidence of criminal behavior.

“Moderately yours....”

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#2196 Feb 7, 2013
TerryE wrote:
Then only substantial difference between communism and National Socialism was that communism was to be an international, world wide
system (The Internationale!). Iosef Stalin had his covert "shock troops", The Soviet Comintern,(a contraction of Communist International) Communists were nothing if they weren't totally convinced that there way was the way of the future. And the third evolution of communism was the withering away of the state into a socialist paradise. The National Socialists never felt anything like solidarity with other people and wanted to make their socialism exclusive and Germanic,
<quoted text>
You are correct...the Nazi's never felt anything other than murderous contempt for other non- germanic people.
As far as only innocently applying their madness to germans, you are incredibly wrong. First of Hitler did not launch a war of self defense, he started that war as a war of conquest. Does the term 'Final Solution' mean anything. That sure sounds like applying Nazi philosophy violently upon non germanic people.
Making excuses for, or understanding the motives of Germany's nazi's or the American version of Nazi's like McVeigh or Koresh is as immoral an exercise as there is.

Here is my point of view in two brief paragraphs.
1974 I start my politics as a Republican. The reason was simple the Democrats at that time we busily in love with the most radical element of their philosophy. At it's most extreme end were flag burning nihilists.
The Republicans after Reagan were taken over by their most radical elements. Thus I left that party because of that fact. Now the GOP's most radical elements include those who justify war against the American people. An act that exceeds the stupidity of flag burning Hippies by a long shot.
The GOP hard right clearly is no more patriotic then the radical left of the 1960's, holding a violent contempt for a majority the American people and a thus holding a clear contempt for the concept of a Republic , which means loving the people and the nation even if you disagree with its choice of leadership.

I wonder if the right wingers patriotism is contingent upon the results of the last election.
If so that 'patriotism' is a fraud.
Imhotep

United States

#2197 Feb 7, 2013
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>Rifle, skeetshooting.......uh, pardon me but you may know less than Obama about guns. He shoots skeet with drones by the way.
Humor only - sarcasm
Here is link... Enjoy!

http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzr...

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Citing budgetary concerns, the United States announced today that it would discontinue regular Saturday drone strikes on U.S. citizens, beginning in 2014.

In announcing the decision, the White House spokesman Jay Carney acknowledged that the cutback in drone service was “bound to be controversial.”“In the United States, we’ve always prided ourselves on our ability to target our citizens with drone strikes, Monday through Saturday, regardless of the weather,” he said.“We know that losing Saturday drone service is going to take some getting used to.”

But the move to cutback in drone service drew sharp criticism from a longtime defender of the program, the former Vice-President Dick Cheney.“Like most Americans, I thought I’d never see the day when drones just up and take Saturdays off,” he said.“This would never be happening if I were still President.”

As if to silence critics, Mr. Carney assured reporters that drones could “still get the job done” Monday through Friday, and reminded U.S. citizens to update the government on any change of address so the drones would know where to reach them.

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#2198 Feb 7, 2013
Bluntforce wrote:
<quoted text>The worst part is those same dope addled maggots now infest our government.
They are probably still on Russia's payroll.

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#2199 Feb 7, 2013
TerryE wrote:
Fascism (Mussolinism) is a "Bundling of Italian industries" under Govt control, a demand economy. Hitler recognized the value to German rearmament and incorporated into his plans for the thousand year Reich. The point was to have total industrial control by the state, yet take full advantage of the administrative and managerial experience. But unlike the Russian experience, there were no purges.
My president was elected by dead people!
Regards, Terri
I was watching the BATTLE OF BRITIAN last night and it showed Hitler giving a speech, the crowd of pysco screaming seig heils and Hitler promising things he could not actually do. Sure reminded me of watching Obama. I see now where he got his training.

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#2200 Feb 7, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Humor only - sarcasm
Here is link... Enjoy!
http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzr...
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Citing budgetary concerns, the United States announced today that it would discontinue regular Saturday drone strikes on U.S. citizens, beginning in 2014.
In announcing the decision, the White House spokesman Jay Carney acknowledged that the cutback in drone service was “bound to be controversial.”“In the United States, we’ve always prided ourselves on our ability to target our citizens with drone strikes, Monday through Saturday, regardless of the weather,” he said.“We know that losing Saturday drone service is going to take some getting used to.”
But the move to cutback in drone service drew sharp criticism from a longtime defender of the program, the former Vice-President Dick Cheney.“Like most Americans, I thought I’d never see the day when drones just up and take Saturdays off,” he said.“This would never be happening if I were still President.”
As if to silence critics, Mr. Carney assured reporters that drones could “still get the job done” Monday through Friday, and reminded U.S. citizens to update the government on any change of address so the drones would know where to reach them.
I figured as much. If America don't wake up as a country soon, we will be like the jews being lead into the gas chamber and being told a good hot shower will make you feel much better.

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#2201 Feb 7, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
Search "Congressional Record Ruby Ridge" and just start reading.
Search "Congressional Record Waco"
I noticed that .50 cal M2 heavy machine gun that was identified on the search warrant that nobody was allowed to see for a couple of weeks was never found....EDITED....The bottom line is, I've found so many mistakes here, the credibility of this informatin is suspect.
Do you have a source with accurate information?
And you forgot to mention that George Roden Jr. was later convicted of murder, which may have been related to why he and Vernon didn't get along.
As to the machine gun, you have offered NO evidence it was "never found." The government website says it was there. You lose unless you can prove them wrong.

Secondly, saying 'interesting,''I didn't know that,' or talking about legal BARRELs for illegal weapons dosn't prove anything a "mistake" or any information "inaccurate." You simply don't want to deal with facts and try, feebly, to introduce doubt about these weapons to discredit the government's case - doubt which simply doesn't exist.

Your dismissal of Koresh's cult's arsenal has been completely disproven. You need to acknowledge your mistake instead of trying to excuse it.

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#2202 Feb 7, 2013
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>Yep, the hippies were paid preformers. Most of the money came from Russia.
LOL...wacko even by your standards. Even most McCarthyite leftovers in the '60s didn't believe that.

Go back to clown college and leave political commentary alone, you aren't good at it, only unintentionally funny.:)

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#2203 Feb 7, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't see anything wrong with using the Alabama National Guard in Texas? Had that guard unit been activated into the standing Armed Forces of the United States?
I see a lot wrong with that.
Nothing at all wrong. It's a nearby state, and state Nat'l Guard units have often moved into other states for disaster relief, among other functions.

President Washington gathered militias from several states, including New Jersey, to march into western Pennysylvania and break up the Whiskey Rebellion, for a much earlier instance of such actions.

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#2204 Feb 7, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
More specifically, the world communist movement, which Russia was the dominant player in it then. The very same people pay the OWS scumbags.
I'm calling you on both those claims. Offer proof, or offer apologies.

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#2205 Feb 7, 2013
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>They are probably still on Russia's payroll.
And you probably still think Russia is Communist....LOL

“Science not Conservatism”

Since: Jan 12

Progress, not Denial

#2206 Feb 7, 2013
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>I was watching the BATTLE OF BRITIAN last night and it showed Hitler giving a speech, the crowd of pysco screaming seig heils and Hitler promising things he could not actually do. Sure reminded me of watching Obama. I see now where he got his training.
You're a liar, a slanderer, and an anti-American traitor. You were probably licking the screen when Hitler was on.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2207 Feb 7, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
Revenge for the killing of your family would be justified on a person to person basis. If Larry Potts had killed McVeigh's family, if on the jury, I would not be in favor of convicting him of murder if Larry Potts were the only person killed in revenge.
However applying this to McVeigh in any way has two major logical flaws.
First no one in McVeigh's family was killed, period.
And even if his entire family were killed, and Potts were in that building, he killed innocent as well. That fact makes arguing some kind of revenge motive vulgar and obscene. As an act of war that type of intentional killing of innocents would be a war crime in my book.
I really think that making some kind of connection between the two is an absurd attempt to give McVeigh some sort of fig leaf of legitimate action. The connection to Potts, justifying OKC was only in Mcveigh's mind, and yours. If you are claiming that this 'threshold' that spurred him into action was justified by love of an ideal, you must recognize the fraud against logic and morality you are committing.
First there is no connection between any one in that building and anything that happened to McViegh.
Second to forgive or even 'understand the motives' of excesses of this nature, renders the cause obscene.
McViegh was full of obscene political concepts, his crime was fashioned from his obsession with 'The Turner Diaries', understanding his motive makes me gag.
Truthfully how many times have you read that book, and did you find your self in political agreement with it
I believe we have a system of justice that is designed to disallow the use of revenge. I believe in that concept. How well it works is another issue.
I believe McVeigh was striking back at the government. I don't think he had any individuals in mind.
You reach very far when you attempt to conclude what is in my mind. Perhaps you do that with anyone arguing a point? Rationale and justification are two entirely different words.
Was McVeigh justified? That is a matter of subjective conclusion.
Did McVeigh respond to the government assassinating innocent Americans? I believe that is the accepted reasoning.
About connections, I can't accept that you do not connect the Ruby Ridge and Waco events with the federal government.
Ideals have no direct relationship with the subjective morality or ethical aspects. Morality and ethics are relative. The ideal I referenced can be described as the perceived perfect state where the government does not assassinate innocent Americans.

"Second to forgive or even 'understand the motives' of excesses of this nature, renders the cause obscene."
Is it obscene to understand the motives of Hitler? You are applying your subjective conclusions to determine what information people should have, and applying a censorship criteria.

Nobody was forgiven in any of my posts.

let's review my summation stated multiple times:
Larry Potts should have been on the gurney right next to McVeigh.

You have to be inventive to get forgiveness out of that.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#2208 Feb 7, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Though you should admit that the 2nd Amendment call for citizens to have arms in order to form 'well-regulated militias' was intended to enforce the laws, not rebel against the government.
BS, that's exactly not why citizens are armed?? As a 'professor' you are sadly lacking in knowledge of the Second Amendment. But as a 16 yr. old high schooler, we understand. The Second Amendment is the second, to protect the First Anendment. Also to protect citizens from a tyrannical government.

“JESUS WOULD IMPEACH THE GOP!!!”

Since: May 09

Lake Success, N.Y.

#2209 Feb 7, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
More specifically, the world communist movement, which Russia was the dominant player in it then. The very same people pay the OWS scumbags.
Youreally are a sckidividual, you know that?

Prove with a verfifiable link that Communists were paying OWS movemet. Or even the anti war movement of the late 60's / early 70s.,

This s going to be funny.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2210 Feb 7, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing at all wrong. It's a nearby state, and state Nat'l Guard units have often moved into other states for disaster relief, among other functions.
President Washington gathered militias from several states, including New Jersey, to march into western Pennysylvania and break up the Whiskey Rebellion, for a much earlier instance of such actions.
You seem to have a problem understanding the Constitution, and the role the National Guard plays in our military system.
The National Guard in each state is subordinate to the governor of that state.
In the default state, the Commander in Chief of any National Guard unit is the governor of the state where that National Guard unit resides. This is true until that National Guard unit is formally activated into the active standing Armed Forces of the United States.
Using the National Guard from Alabama in the state of Texas is the same as Alabama invading Texas.
Perhaps you need to learn just a little more than you currently know to participate in the discussion.

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