Joe Solomnese Appears on Hardball To Discuss President Obama's LGBTI Policy Moves - Lez Get Real

[OutVoice]

I normally agree with most of your posts Sei but not this time. Your dismissive and rude retorts only alienate discussion. That is not an assist to our GLBT community. We need to look at different ideas and exchange experiences. For you to use the sit at home bit is really tired and mean. I need to rethink my links to Lez Get Real on my websites if this is approved alienation and conduct. Sounds more elitist to me. As for your defense of HRC and Solomnese I am curious as to why as this group was the 1st to give up the Transgendered community in most political battles. Social and political change is needed and both require a well planned, thought-out, and executed action. Mad and crazy running in the streets will do nothing but create loss.

Sei wrote:

<quoted text>
No, I don't have 'much to learn', you do. What I don't have is enough space to go through and give you a twenty page paper backing up every last point I would love to make. Read your **** history.
What you are doing is saying "let's all sit down to a spot of tea and hope, wish, pray that we can get change to happen."
Yes, what I said is a 'gross over simplification. A comment box is not exactly a g** d*** term paper.
And, no, we haven't been making a whole lot of noise. We haven't been making noise on a large scale. The protests of the past came at a time when they were no longer effective.
Basically, SIR, you are ignoring the history of not only this nation but of India. So long as protests are large scale, and so long as they are consistent, they are effective. If all they are is sporatic, small scale, and laughable, they are ineffective.
Of course, you know, Martin Luther King Jr. was able to get civil rights legislation just by sitting in his church hoping to change the minds of the people across the street beating up the black kids for being 'uppity'. Of course Mahatma Gandhi was able to liberate India by inviting over the British government and politely asking them for his country's freedom.
Change comes through many means. Yes, talking and getting people to know us helps. That is social change. Protests help push government into moving, as does lobbying. Lawsuits also move the legal system in our direction. What you are demanding is that we abandon everything but talking to people to achieve what we want. Like it or not, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN if we do it that way. How about taking a few classes on the Civil Right's movement some time.
The only thing that these protests hurt is our standing with the people who want to hurt us already. They hate us already and they don't care how many of us there are.
What protests do is make politicians aware of the number of people who feel strongly about this issue. It gives them something of a count when it comes to the issues. People may not make up their minds on a given issue, but they are passionate enough to get out there and make their views known.
Of course, if you want to sit in your house and hope/wish/pray that we get our rights, fine. Do not expect some more complex answer from me any time soon because, like it or not, this format is not exactly conducive to long, complex explanations. There are, however, dozens of books out there which will explain to you just how the Civil Rights movement worked, and just how effective it was because of a variety of different factors.
It is YOU who are simplifying this whole thing into 'protests are not effective only sitting down and having a conversation with the guy who's fist just connected with my face because I'm gay and he hates people like me is the only way to change things.'
I will not be responding any longer. Go and hide, don't bother to reply, we know where you stand on this, and I know where I stand on this, and neither of us are going to agree.

[OutVoice]

I normally agree with most of your posts Sei but not this time. Your dismissive and rude retorts only alienate discussion. That is not an assist to our GLBT community. We need to look at different ideas and exchange experiences. For you to use the sit at home bit is really tired and mean. I need to rethink my links to Lez Get Real on my websites if this is approved alienation and conduct. Sounds more elitist to me. As for your defense of HRC and Solmnese I am curious as to why as this group was the 1st to give up the Transgendered community in most political battles. Social and political change is needed and both require a well planned, thought-out, and executed action. Mad and crazy running in the streets will do nothing but create loss.

Sei wrote:

<quoted text>
No, I don't have 'much to learn', you do. What I don't have is enough space to go through and give you a twenty page paper backing up every last point I would love to make. Read your **** history.
What you are doing is saying "let's all sit down to a spot of tea and hope, wish, pray that we can get change to happen."
Yes, what I said is a 'gross over simplification. A comment box is not exactly a g** d*** term paper.
And, no, we haven't been making a whole lot of noise. We haven't been making noise on a large scale. The protests of the past came at a time when they were no longer effective.
Basically, SIR, you are ignoring the history of not only this nation but of India. So long as protests are large scale, and so long as they are consistent, they are effective. If all they are is sporatic, small scale, and laughable, they are ineffective.
Of course, you know, Martin Luther King Jr. was able to get civil rights legislation just by sitting in his church hoping to change the minds of the people across the street beating up the black kids for being 'uppity'. Of course Mahatma Gandhi was able to liberate India by inviting over the British government and politely asking them for his country's freedom.
Change comes through many means. Yes, talking and getting people to know us helps. That is social change. Protests help push government into moving, as does lobbying. Lawsuits also move the legal system in our direction. What you are demanding is that we abandon everything but talking to people to achieve what we want. Like it or not, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN if we do it that way. How about taking a few classes on the Civil Right's movement some time.
The only thing that these protests hurt is our standing with the people who want to hurt us already. They hate us already and they don't care how many of us there are.
What protests do is make politicians aware of the number of people who feel strongly about this issue. It gives them something of a count when it comes to the issues. People may not make up their minds on a given issue, but they are passionate enough to get out there and make their views known.
Of course, if you want to sit in your house and hope/wish/pray that we get our rights, fine. Do not expect some more complex answer from me any time soon because, like it or not, this format is not exactly conducive to long, complex explanations. There are, however, dozens of books out there which will explain to you just how the Civil Rights movement worked, and just how effective it was because of a variety of different factors.
It is YOU who are simplifying this whole thing into 'protests are not effective only sitting down and having a conversation with the guy who's fist just connected with my face because I'm gay and he hates people like me is the only way to change things.'
I will not be responding any longer. Go and hide, don't bother to reply, we know where you stand on this, and I know where I stand on this, and neither of us are going to agree.

[get over it]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_...

what do you think of this inquisitarian? some people are getting the picture!
I also do not understand Outvoices comments regarding Sei, but feels free to give inquisitarian a free pass with his dismisive and rude comments.

[get over it]

I do not think sei or I ever said anything about mad and crazy running in the streets. you must not have that much faith in the community to peacefully protest!

[OutVoice]

I think Inquisitarian had some good points as did Sei. I also stated that. However Sei also stated that being focused was safe and sitting at home. No free pass was given to anyone. I addressed my comments to Sei because I am usually in agreement with Sei in content and how addressed. I was truly shocked at the manner Sei responded. Especially with HRC's record on throwing the Transgendered under the bus for sake of all.

get over it wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 90607/ap_on_re_us/us_gay_right s_march_2
what do you think of this inquisitarian? some people are getting the picture!
I also do not understand Outvoices comments regarding Sei, but feels free to give inquisitarian a free pass with his dismisive and rude comments.

[OutVoice]

I did not see any support from either of you on directed thoughtful action. This march you posted a link to is directed, thoughtful action. Big difference. Otherwise it is mad and crazy running in the streets.

get over it wrote:

I do not think sei or I ever said anything about mad and crazy running in the streets. you must not have that much faith in the community to peacefully protest!

[Gary47]

Daniel P from Long Island wrote:

Obamaniac is a typical lying politician and a typical black homophobe.
IMPEACH this bum !

Oh fer gawd's sake. Grow up. Obama is a politician.

His number one priority is himself, and then he will set policies based on that.

Your name calling is unrealistic and inappropriate.

Next: There's no basis for impeachment, unless you want to lower our country to a banana republic controlled by mobs or juntas.

Finally: for all our disappointment in his not-much-yet policies, he's still hella better than McSame (Dubya's 3rd term), and was the only democrat who was electable.

Work with the man, and give him a chance.

[Inquisitarian]

get over it wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 90607/ap_on_re_us/us_gay_right s_march_2
what do you think of this inquisitarian? some people are getting the picture!

Cleve Jones may think a confluence of events make this a good time to March on Washington, but the article really doesn't tell us much beyond that about what the focus of the march would be.

I was at a March of Washington some 15 years ago. It was fun.....but didn't seem to have any clear purpose other than to get as many gay people together in one place as possible. It also didn't appear to accomplish much. We still ended up with the federal DOMA a few years later. Things have changed for the worse in my state since then. Not only does Michigan still not include orientation in its anti-discrimination laws, but my partner and I have also lost our employer-administered domestic partnership benefits thanks to the passage of an amendment that banned ANY form of recognition for same-sex couples.

And no - I did not come back home and just sit on my ass, waiting for change to happen. I was active in the local LGBT political and social organizations. Our focus at the time was trying to get a local anti-discrimination ordinance passed. And we failed several years in a row. Marching on Washington may have energized us, but it had zero influence on the politicians back home - where it really counts.

So someone please explain to me exactly what they think a March on Washington is supposed to accomplish, and how it will do that.

Because until I hear something believable on that score, I'm going to remain fiercely skeptical.