Skull Valley lawmaker wants both side...

Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

There are 1632 comments on the Verde Independent story from Feb 5, 2013, titled Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students. In it, Verde Independent reports that:

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Verde Independent.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#650 Mar 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
...And there are a LOT of co2 emissions...With the US pumping out over 5 billion tonnes a years and china and India vying for supremacy in the pollution stakes and carbon sinks either sinking or becoming saturated I donít really see your point
There's nothing we can do to stop CO2 escaping from the oceans as they warm or to stop geological CO2 emissions from volcanoes and springs. Have you ever seen water bubbling out of a hot spring? Some of those escaping gasses are carbon dioxide.

I understand your fear of climate, it can kill you if you don't adapt. I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving, going too fast for conditions, not climate for the ice on the road.

Cold climate is far worse than a little warming; frost bites.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#651 Mar 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There's nothing we can do to stop CO2 escaping from the oceans as they warm or to stop geological CO2 emissions from volcanoes and springs. Have you ever seen water bubbling out of a hot spring? Some of those escaping gasses are carbon dioxide.
I understand your fear of climate, it can kill you if you don't adapt. I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving, going too fast for conditions, not climate for the ice on the road.
Cold climate is far worse than a little warming; frost bites.
This is true but there is something we can do to reduce the amount that are absorbed by the oceans. We canít stop cows farting either (yet, but science is working on it)

I have no fear of the climate, I live in the UK and so live in an unpredictable climate anyway. For example last year every month for 9 month continuously (even during high summer) there was some sort of major flooding somewhere in the UK. That was not normal, although quite regular it was unpredictable and abnormal. Today, 2nd day of spring much of the UK is undergoing snow storms and gales. The frequency of tornadoes is also increasing here as I suppose they are in the US.

It should be noted that such extremes of weather are becoming more prevalent as the climate warms.

Yes, this is also true there is no excuse for bad driving, if you want to put others lives at risk then you take the consequences for the chances you take

Unfortunately for your ill informed ideas, warming does not necessarily mean a warmer, more pleasant climate. The loss of arctic ice into the Atlantic is causing harsher, more violent weather.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#652 Mar 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
This is true but there is something we can do to reduce the amount that are absorbed by the oceans. We canít stop cows farting either (yet, but science is working on it)
I have no fear of the climate, I live in the UK and so live in an unpredictable climate anyway. For example last year every month for 9 month continuously (even during high summer) there was some sort of major flooding somewhere in the UK. That was not normal, although quite regular it was unpredictable and abnormal. Today, 2nd day of spring much of the UK is undergoing snow storms and gales. The frequency of tornadoes is also increasing here as I suppose they are in the US.
It should be noted that such extremes of weather are becoming more prevalent as the climate warms.
Yes, this is also true there is no excuse for bad driving, if you want to put others lives at risk then you take the consequences for the chances you take
Unfortunately for your ill informed ideas, warming does not necessarily mean a warmer, more pleasant climate. The loss of arctic ice into the Atlantic is causing harsher, more violent weather.
Basically, just about any climate change short of a new ice age is going to be an improvement for Britain.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#653 Mar 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There's nothing we can do to stop CO2 escaping from the oceans as they warm
Except that this is not a problem. The higher partial pressure of increased CO2 from industrial emissions is much stronger than the weaker solution emissions from warming. This is proven by many many studies that show that acidity is steadily increasing in the oceans as they ABSORB about half the industrial emissions produced each and every year. Along with studies of how much is emitted from industry vs the change in concentration in the air.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>or to stop geological CO2 emissions from volcanoes and springs. Have you ever seen water bubbling out of a hot spring? Some of those escaping gasses are carbon dioxide.
And a further check is made by isotopic composition which can differentiate CO2 from combustion (old carbon deficient in C14 combined with new oxygen (relatively modern O18 composition) from geological depositories such as limestone (old carbon with old oxygen).

This clearly shows that the changes are NOT due to vulcanism or hot springs which sources are at LEAST two orders of magnitude too small to account for the data.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I understand your fear of climate, it can kill you if you don't adapt.
The main risk is to the economic engine which cannot absorb too much cost from changing climate regimes without stalling. You are introducing 'red herrings' and 'strawmen'. Shame on you.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text> I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving, going too fast for conditions, not climate for the ice on the road.
I blame you as well, since I have hit treacherous road conditons many times and have never had a serious accident from them. They are there. Obvious to anyone with a brain. It is probably the same 'blindness' that you show on the issue of AGW. You just don't see things that are right before you.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text> Cold climate is far worse than a little warming; frost bites.
False. And obviously false. It is easier to adapt to -40C than to +40C. Layered clothing was adopted by the Innuit and they survived quite well over 10,000 years ago, without complicated technology.

While we need expensive and high maintenance cooling units (along with massive energy inputs) to survive +40C weather.

Just another example of your mindless 'red herrings'.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#654 Mar 22, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
... I live in the UK and so live in an unpredictable climate anyway. For example last year every month for 9 month continuously (even during high summer) there was some sort of major flooding somewhere in the UK. That was not normal, although quite regular it was unpredictable and abnormal...
Chris is saying it often rains in Great Britain now; and that's unusual how?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#655 Mar 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Chris is saying it often rains in Great Britain now; and that's unusual how?
"It's been the year when flooding became relevant to every part of the country. From the south-west to the north-east, every part of the country got hit," says Charles Tucker, chairman of the National Flood Forum, which represents more than 200 local community groups. "Flooding can now strike anywhere, and it needs to be recognised as the No 1 national emergency happening now."

The deluges that made 2012 England's wettest on record left persistently sodden ground: fresh downpours caused rapid run-off and flash flooding in places once thought to be safe. In June, the forum helped people in West Sussex after homes were flooded. "They were absolutely shocked Ė they are a community that had never been flooded before," said Tucker.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/ja...

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#657 Mar 22, 2013
Britain faces increasingly extreme weather conditions and urgently needs to improve its anti-flood defences and preparations for severe drought, says the Environment Agency.

Its stark conclusion follows detailed analysis of weather patterns, river levels and flooding events in 2012, which revealed that some areas suffered record levels of drought before facing some of the worst flooding ever.

Last year, flooding was recorded on 20% of days and drought on 25% of days, with rivers such as the Tyne, Ouse and Tone going from their record lowest flows to record highest in four months.

"It was an extraordinary year and it serves as a warning for the country that we face a future in which there are likely to be more and more extreme weather events," said Lord (Chris) Smith, the agency's chairman. "We need, very urgently, to prepare plans to deal with these extremes."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/02/brit...

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#658 Mar 22, 2013
Brian_G trolls Topix year after year.

Meanwhile, in the real world, people are recognizing the effects of global warming and realizing that they will have to deal with them.
litesong

Everett, WA

#660 Mar 22, 2013
brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver wrote:
I totaled my car the day before yesterday, I hit black ice and pinballed off the guard rails. I blame my own poor driving.....
However, thinking aforethought should have 'mitigated' your future(now past) conduct.
Thinking aforethought, by engineers, possibly gave you extra protection that you did not deserve.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#661 Mar 23, 2013
Great Britain has always had lots of rain; this is nothing new. If rain records only start in 1910, that just shows how incomplete the climate record is.

Has any experiment shown man can stop rain, steer a storm or mitigated global climate? If not, climate change mitigation is a hoax.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#662 Mar 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Has any experiment shown man can stop rain, steer a storm or mitigated global climate? If not, climate change mitigation is a hoax.
When both theory and observation support that doing a particular thing is causing a change, then not doing more of it is logically going to mitigate the change, all else being equal.

What part of this straightforward logic do you find faulty?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#663 Mar 23, 2013
There's never been observations of successful climate change mitigation; observation tells us climate change mitigation is a hoax. What part of observed fact do you find at fault?
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#664 Mar 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Great Britain has always had lots of rain; this is nothing new.
Great Britain is known for having a lot of FOG. It is not known for having that much rain (with some exception in areas such as Cornwall).

Their has been a sigificant change in both temperature and precipitation pattern since 1960.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/q/h/UK_...

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#665 Mar 23, 2013
Liverpool Rain Lyrics
by Racoon

Stuck in a van
As far away as I possibly can
Stuck in a mood
So far away that it couldn't be good
My back hurts and it rains
Screw England, screw the young and insane
We travel in vain, but the dreams are the same

But look at the heroes in the Liverpool rain
I'll stick by you forever
You didn't do it in vain
You travel the houses, soothing the pain
Putting a smile on my face once again
So look at the heroes in the Liverpool rain...

Puressence London In The Rain Lyrics
Send "London In The Rain" Ringtone to your Cell
There's nothing like London in the rain,
There's nothing like falling from a moving train,

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#666 Mar 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
There's never been observations of successful climate change mitigation; observation tells us climate change mitigation is a hoax. What part of observed fact do you find at fault?
No, even by the most rigorous standards of skepticism, climate change mitigation would not be regarded as a hoax.

At best it could be regarded as a premature conclusion, by the most die-hard such as you.

It is not a hoax to hypothesise, strongly, that if an activity causes a change, now supported by both theory and observation, that ceasing that activity is likely to mitigate further change.

That is just a normal extrapolation of observation and theory.

Unless you are actually denying the scientific theory of greenhouse gases, and denying the observed changes already recorded, you are talking rubbish and yo know it.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#667 Mar 24, 2013
Belief in climate change mitigation is based on pure theory, not experimental science. There's no demonstration, test or trial that shows man can change or mitigate climate change.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#669 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
No, even by the most rigorous standards of skepticism, climate change mitigation would not be regarded as a hoax. At best it could be regarded as a premature conclusion, by the most die-hard such as you. It is not a hoax to hypothesise, strongly, that if an activity causes a change, now supported by both theory and observation, that ceasing that activity is likely to mitigate further change. That is just a normal extrapolation of observation and theory. Unless you are actually denying the scientific theory of greenhouse gases, and denying the observed changes already recorded, you are talking rubbish and yo know it.
Coincidence isn't causality. Any climate scientist who makes the claim we must restrict greenhouse gas emissions or invest in his CO2 sequestration technology to save the world from catastrophic man made global warming, is a hoaxer. It isn't merely a "premature conclusion", it changes taxes and redirects our economies based on pseudoscience, to profit big government and the left. Climate change mitigation is an untested prototype, without any experimental verification it can do even the least bit of good.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#670 Mar 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
...Although the rise in average temperatures in lock step with CO2 over the last 150 years can also be ignored? Consider it a real time experiment. Funny how you don't want to waste a few billion on "untested" innovation but seem happy that your government has wasted 2 trillion on unsuccessful social engineering experiments with Muslims, not to mention the lives of many brave soldiers.
Wars and the history of the past 150 years aren't an experiment. Experiments are planned, orderly, intended and controlled.

Most alarmists believe because they don't understand science. I cite Chimney's post above as proof of ignorance of the scientific method.

I'm glad the state's senate wants critical thinking taught in science class. Children need to learn the difference between real experiments and hoaxes.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#671 Mar 26, 2013
I have a hard time believing that the world is changing. I mean, hasn't it always been this way since the dawn of time?

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#672 Mar 26, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Coincidence isn't causality. Any climate scientist who makes the claim we must restrict greenhouse gas emissions or invest in his CO2 sequestration technology to save the world from catastrophic man made global warming, is a hoaxer.
Yes Brian. A good little scientist should stay in his box and merely report that there is an observed correlation already between CO2 levels and temperature rise, and that we have scientific theories that provide a causative link and that in fact the observed correlation was predicted a century ago by those theories which have in fact been further refined and corroborated since Arrhenius...

But, no, scientists are not like everyone else. No way should they be allowed to express and opinion on policy. In fact, scientific credentials should specifically bar anyone from suggesting policy, especially on matters relating to scientific and technical matters.

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