Uzbekistan: On the bloody trail of Ta...

Uzbekistan: On the bloody trail of Tamerlane

There are 117 comments on the The Independent story from Jul 22, 2009, titled Uzbekistan: On the bloody trail of Tamerlane. In it, The Independent reports that:

He was a meglomaniac and a mass murderer. Yet, in his wake, the despot left some of Central Asia's most beautiful cities.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Independent.

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Khurshid from Uzbekistan

Uzbekistan

#1 Oct 20, 2009
I strongly disagree with the opinion that My great ancestor - Tamerlane was maglomainac. The truth is that he executed only the soldiers that resisted, as any of the monarchs, countries of that times. It seems me unfair when Tamerlane is called like that just because he was non-european, and why Napoleon remains "white". And also the general opinion that assumes that Tamerlane and the "The Great Mongol Empire" (India) were both Mongols', whereas both Tamerlane and Bobur (who established the before mentioned empire) were actually Turks ( at that time that was big Turkish tribal people including: Turks, Uzbeks, Kyrgizs and many others)
Lola

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#2 Oct 21, 2009
Khurshid from Uzbekistan wrote:
I strongly disagree with the opinion that My great ancestor - Tamerlane was maglomainac. The truth is that he executed only the soldiers that resisted, as any of the monarchs, countries of that times. It seems me unfair when Tamerlane is called like that just because he was non-european, and why Napoleon remains "white". And also the general opinion that assumes that Tamerlane and the "The Great Mongol Empire" (India) were both Mongols', whereas both Tamerlane and Bobur (who established the before mentioned empire) were actually Turks ( at that time that was big Turkish tribal people including: Turks, Uzbeks, Kyrgizs and many others)
There was Mongol Horde, nothing to do with Babur who established MOGUL Empire. Also they were TURKIC. Also Babur left because of your ancestor - Shaibany Khan (Uzbek/TURKIC). I think you were misguided
from Sam

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#3 Nov 18, 2009
Lolochka, Temur was u turckic man who was fighted against to mongols in big part of his life.
Bobur father is a turkic and his mather is a mongol.That means Bobur belongs to turkic people.
and its erroneous idea of western people that in india Bobur built a mongol empire.Lets don`t learn our history from west people.i don`t understand how u can go blind to believe that west people.
Lola

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#4 Nov 27, 2009
from Sam wrote:
Lolochka, Temur was u turckic man who was fighted against to mongols in big part of his life.
Bobur father is a turkic and his mather is a mongol.That means Bobur belongs to turkic people.
and its erroneous idea of western people that in india Bobur built a mongol empire.Lets don`t learn our history from west people.i don`t understand how u can go blind to believe that west people.
What a bulls..t! Could you please name those "mongols" Timur was fighting with?
Do you know that mongols also were turkic? It automatically canceles nonesense about Babur genealogy.
The FACT that Babur established powerful and civilized empire in India wasn't erroneous, my boy.
I don't even want to go into this discussion further, but please, think before you say something
Mila _ Tashkent

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#5 Nov 30, 2009
"from Lola wrote:
Do you know that mongols also were turkic?"

Lolochka you probably have very poor knowledge of the history of your country. Besides that Mongols are not Tuks.
Lola

Uzbekistan

#6 Nov 30, 2009
Oh yeah? Who where they? Maybe you will name them?
I would say that your english is not very good, but even in russian there is a difference between TUCS (whoever they are) and TURKIC people.
And believe me my knowledge and competence is very high
UGIL

Singapore

#7 Dec 8, 2009
After Great Chingiz's sons and warriors took over today's Central Asia and Russia, although the elite and top military men were Mongols, they slowly shifted to Turkic language. They were many intermarriages between them, as long as with Persian-speaking (then partly local) people. That's why, we, today's Uzbeks, as the legacy holders of Great Empires (Great Uzbekkhan's Orda and Shaybani-led Uzbeks, who established three Khanates later) and (Timur's Enormous State and Babur's Empire in India), should be very pride of our Great History, whatever said by foreign travellers and their guides today.
Lola

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#8 Dec 10, 2009
UGIL wrote:
After Great Chingiz's sons and warriors took over today's Central Asia and Russia, although the elite and top military men were Mongols, they slowly shifted to Turkic language. They were many intermarriages between them, as long as with Persian-speaking (then partly local) people. That's why, we, today's Uzbeks, as the legacy holders of Great Empires (Great Uzbekkhan's Orda and Shaybani-led Uzbeks, who established three Khanates later) and (Timur's Enormous State and Babur's Empire in India), should be very pride of our Great History, whatever said by foreign travellers and their guides today.
I just want to remind you that the vast majority of information about our land was provided by "foreign travellers". At least three of them are: the Spanish Ambassador Clavijo (1404), the English merchant Jenkinson (16th century) and Robert Jefferson (1898) who rode his bicycle from London to Khiva.
The Uzbeks themselves emerged from Turco-Mongol tribes in the 14th century.
Back to our nice chap Timur: 17 million people died in a trial of blood and suffering, marked by pyramids of sculls, that surpassed even Mongol barbarity.
Khan Abul Khair united the nomadic Turco-Mongol tribes on the stepps of today's Kazakhstan. Later on, in 1512, his grandson Mohammed Shaybani defeated Timur's great-great-great-grandson BABUR, sending him south to found the Mogul Empire in India. During the 17th century the Uzbek clans continued to settle into oasis life, merging with the earlier inhabitants, Turkic and Iranian (Tajic), until the name Uzbek was used for the whole population.
You can develope this idea if you want
ANUJ

Mumbai, India

#9 Jan 15, 2010
Wow...i am amazed with Lola's knowledge :)
you can be a great success in tourism
YES Babur was a great kind in India
Lola

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#10 Jan 17, 2010
Thank you for encouraging
from Sam

Uzbekistan

#11 Jan 19, 2010
Lola wrote:
<quoted text>
What a bulls..t! Could you please name those "mongols" Timur was fighting with?
Do you know that mongols also were turkic? It automatically canceles nonesense about Babur genealogy.
The FACT that Babur established powerful and civilized empire in India wasn't erroneous, my boy.
I don't even want to go into this discussion further, but please, think before you say something
Lola, did u know with him Timur was fought ?
i guess u dnt know about this.Because for one thing Tokhtamysh and other stuff like this belong to mongols.
for the second thing all "oltin urda" ( most of Russia`s territory) belongs to mongol empire and cause of Temur russians had a freedom from mongols.
my third argument is that Temur can speake only two languages:Turkick and a little farsi.
did u ever think why Temur didnt have a degree "khan" ("xon")? beacause he is a not mongol,so his degree was a "amir".
hi`s first wife was a mongol, so he had a degree named as a "kuragoniy".
So dnt say that Temur is a mongol.
many turkick nations named also as a uzbeks.u thing that uzbeks came from Kazakhstan steppe`s, its not a thruth.
i recommended u firstly to learn about uzbeks and turkicks then tell something about them.
Lola

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#12 Jan 19, 2010
Where did YOU learn it from? Perhaps not even from Wiki. You should read it more accurate and then you'd know that, according to the law, Temur didn't get title "Khan" coz he wasn't a direct decendant from Chengiz Khan. But his wife was! You probably think that Temur looked like George Clooney (as his statues in parks do)! Well he clearly had mongol features! Please Sam start thinking and then post. There's nothing to be ashamed of, but it's not very interesting for others, who have any sense at all, to read all this nonsence you produce here
from Sam

Uzbekistan

#13 Jan 20, 2010
sorry,Lola but u couldn't prove that Temur is mongol.
As i said he dont know mongol language just turkick and a little farsi.
Temurs nation is Turkic so he couldn't dominate in Movarounnahr.To got a ascendancy he married to mongol girl and got title "Kuragoniy".With this title he hadn't trouble with authority.
Lola

Tashkent, Uzbekistan

#14 Jan 20, 2010
Sam, I'm not going to talk to you anymore
Cheers

“Get started, Go ahead!!”

Since: Oct 09

Doha, Qatar

#15 Jan 28, 2010
Amir Timur was purely Turkic and you should take into account that the reason why Timur had mongol features was the genetically close ties between two Great nations, Turks and Mongols.
Turks and Mongols are genetically cousine nations..
Lola

Uzbekistan

#16 Jan 28, 2010
I can't stand this! Why don't you, professors, prove this? I'm not going to prove you anything, coz it's a proved fact that he was a Mongol.

“Get started, Go ahead!!”

Since: Oct 09

Doha, Qatar

#17 Jan 29, 2010
Lola wrote:
I can't stand this! Why don't you, professors, prove this? I'm not going to prove you anything, coz it's a proved fact that he was a Mongol.
Timur was born in Transoxiana, in City of Kesh (an area now better known as Shahrisabz,'the green city,'), some 50 miles south of Samarkand in modern Uzbekistan. His father Taraqai was a small-scale landowner and belonged to the Barlas, a nomadic Turkic tribe. Timur was a Muslim, his official religious counselor was the Hanafite scholar 'Abdu 'l-Jabbar Khwarazmi. He also constructed one of his finest buildings at the tomb of Ahmed Yesevi, an influential Turkic Sufi saint who was spreading Sunni Islam among the nomads.
There is nothing clear of his origin but it says that his father was from nomadic Turkic tribe, but on the other hand Barlas was Turko-Mongol tribe, any way Mongols and Turks are cousine nations..
Lola

Uzbekistan

#18 Jan 29, 2010
Moreover, mongols are turkic tribe. or, if you want, group of different turkic tribes.

Timur's family was of Mongol stock, part of the ruling aristocracy of the fragmented Chagatay Ulus, BUT settled into local Turkic and Islamic culture.
In 1360, Timur was recognized as the astute young man who welcomed a Mongol invasion and succeeded as Barlas's chief. In 10 years, after clever political and military manoeuvering he becomes lord of Transoxiana and master of Samarkand. Lack of direct descent to Chengiz Khan limited him to Amir. But his successful marriage promoted him to "guregen".
from Sam

Uzbekistan

#19 Jan 29, 2010
Iltimos, o`zbek bo`la turib, Temur haqida bunaqa ahmoqona gaplarni gapirmanglar har xolda uning ruhini chirqiratayabsizlar.
Yana bir aytaman Temur umuman mo`g`ul tilini bilmagan. Va agar Temur tarixiga qiziqib ko`rsangizlar u hayotining ko`p qismini mo`g`ul bosqinchilariga qarshi kurashib o`tganligini tushunib yetasizlar.LOLA, iltimos siz o`zbeklar tarixi haqida umuman gapirmang!!! Sizning bu qarashlaringizni qo`llab quvvatlagan hech kimni ko`rmadim bu yerda.Bu mo`g`ullar haqidagi gap o`zbeklar tarixini bo`htonlar bilan yomonlash uchun ba`zi bir g`arb davlatlarining qilgan ishlari deb o`ylayman.Har holda ulardan tariximiz ustun bo`lsa ustunki ,lekin kam emas.Ularga indamasa Bobur bilan Hazrat Navoiyni ham mo`g`ulga chiqarib qo`yishadi.Qanday qilib o`sha bosqinchi var-var mo`g`ullar fan va san`at degan tushunchalarni tushuna olsa.Ular bizning ko`p tariximizni yo`qotib tashlagan.Aynan shunga qarshi kurashgan Temurni millati mo`g`ul deyish bu o`zbeklarga nisbatan katta HAQORAT deb bilaman.
uzur ingliz tilida muammolarim bo`lgani va yuqoridagi axmoqona gaplarga chidab turolmaganim uchun o`zbek tilida yozishga majbur bo`ldim.O`ylaymanki chet elliklar buni tushunmasa ham o`z tarixini bilmaydigan o`zbeklarga oz bo`lsa ham ta`sir qiladi.
from Sam

Uzbekistan

#20 Jan 29, 2010
Amir Temurning bu gapini nima sababdan aytgan deb o`ylaysiz?:
"Biz kim - mulki Turon, Amiri Turkistonmiz, Biz kim - millatlarning eng buyugi, TURKNING bosh bo`g`inimiz".
Iltimos shu gap haqida ham o`ylab ko`ring.

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