Looking, Very Closely, for Voter Fraud

Sep 17, 2012 | Posted by: Mr_Bill | Full story: www.nytimes.com

Conservative Groups Focus on Registration in Swing States

It might as well be Harry Potterís invisible Knight Bus, because no one can prove it exists.

The bus has been repeatedly cited by True the Vote, a national group focused on voter fraud. Catherine Engelbrecht, the groupís leader, told a gathering in July about buses carrying dozens of voters showing up at polling places during the recent Wisconsin recall election.

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Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#21
Sep 25, 2012
 

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August wrote:
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Yeah,'cause the Black Panthers are all Republicans.
Are you claiming that the Black Panthers are behind the recent laws passed by republican legislatures designed to remove and ban people of color from voting?
August

Belleview, FL

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#22
Sep 25, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you claiming that the Black Panthers are behind the recent laws passed by republican legislatures designed to remove and ban people of color from voting?
No, I'm talking about BP standing in front of polling places threatening people with physical violence.
What laws have been passed that remove and ban people of color (like black is the only color) from voting?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#23
Sep 25, 2012
 

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August wrote:
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No, I'm talking about BP standing in front of polling places threatening people with physical violence.
What laws have been passed that remove and ban people of color (like black is the only color) from voting?
Where, in 2008, or even 2010, were there black panthers threatening anyone?

As for the laws, have you not been paying attention?

Many states (Florida in particular!) have taken to the practice of removing people of color from the voter rolls and requiring them to re-register in advance of the election DESPITE the fact that they were not notified that they had been removed.

In fact, in the 2000 election, for example, email exchanges specifically revealing that the purge being ordered by Katherine Harris (who was a member of the Bush campaign) would KNOWINGLY remove perfectly legitimate voters based on having a SIMILAR name to someone from a different state who had a felony conviction.

When people turned out to vote, they discovered that because someone in Texas had a felony conviction, the person from Florida who had NO SUCH conviction was prohibited from voting because they didn't (without notification I remind you!) go and RE-REGISTER in advance.

The VAST majority of the people effected were African American.

The new laws being passed (again mostly in Southern states) are deliberately removing people of Latino descent despite showing no actual cause.

For example, if someone was not yet a naturalized citizen when they obtained their driver's licenses YEARS AGO, they are being removed from the CURRENT voter rolls despite the fact, in subsequent years, they have become naturalized citizens.

That's DELIBERATELY denying a citizen their CONSTITUTIONAL right to vote.

Now, if this was being done to EVERYONE the same way, it would still be wrong but it wouldn't be criminal.

However, these laws have been OPENLY TOUTED by the GOP as a means of preventing minority voters and thus trying to tip the scale for Romney.

Here's the thing. If you can't win normally and your response is to try and PREVENT people from voting, you don't deserve to LIVE in this country let alone lead it.

You guys are the Taliban.
August

Belleview, FL

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#24
Sep 25, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Where, in 2008, or even 2010, were there black panthers threatening anyone?
As for the laws, have you not been paying attention?
Many states (Florida in particular!) have taken to the practice of removing people of color from the voter rolls and requiring them to re-register in advance of the election DESPITE the fact that they were not notified that they had been removed.
In fact, in the 2000 election, for example, email exchanges specifically revealing that the purge being ordered by Katherine Harris (who was a member of the Bush campaign) would KNOWINGLY remove perfectly legitimate voters based on having a SIMILAR name to someone from a different state who had a felony conviction.
When people turned out to vote, they discovered that because someone in Texas had a felony conviction, the person from Florida who had NO SUCH conviction was prohibited from voting because they didn't (without notification I remind you!) go and RE-REGISTER in advance.
The VAST majority of the people effected were African American.
The new laws being passed (again mostly in Southern states) are deliberately removing people of Latino descent despite showing no actual cause.
For example, if someone was not yet a naturalized citizen when they obtained their driver's licenses YEARS AGO, they are being removed from the CURRENT voter rolls despite the fact, in subsequent years, they have become naturalized citizens.
That's DELIBERATELY denying a citizen their CONSTITUTIONAL right to vote.
Now, if this was being done to EVERYONE the same way, it would still be wrong but it wouldn't be criminal.
However, these laws have been OPENLY TOUTED by the GOP as a means of preventing minority voters and thus trying to tip the scale for Romney.
Here's the thing. If you can't win normally and your response is to try and PREVENT people from voting, you don't deserve to LIVE in this country let alone lead it.
You guys are the Taliban.
Black Panthers
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
As far as what you call unconstitutional, I call a good effort on the part of Florida to clean up their voting rolls. Because, whether you know this or not, the major point they were trying to clear up was people who were, not black or brown but, DEAD. How about the people who are voting in more than one state? And yes, illegals who steal other people's social security numbers and identities. Now, if the last two sets of people are mostly minorities, whose fault is that? Certainly not those who are trying to enforce the laws, which this administration certainly seems to have a problem with. Maybe it's the lawbreakers in the first place. It's a citizen's job to make sure that they are legally in the system if they want to vote. I've had problems with them registering me in the wrong area, name distortion, etc. But I followed through and got them fixed. You just see racism everywhere because you WANT to see racism everywhere.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#25
Sep 25, 2012
 

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August wrote:
<quoted text>
Black Panthers
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
At what point do they threaten anyone? A guy comes up with a camera and starts asking them questions. They answer him.

Did they stop anyone from going inside? Did they even try and stop the guy with the camera from going inside? No.

I'm not sure what your claim is here other than perhaps you are afraid of black people.
As far as what you call unconstitutional, I call a good effort on the part of Florida to clean up their voting rolls. Because, whether you know this or not, the major point they were trying to clear up was people who were, not black or brown but, DEAD.
If they were trying to remove DEAD people from the voter rolls, then why would they remove names of people because they had the same (or SIMILAR! SIMILAR!) name as a felon in a different state.

What logic tells you that John Higgins of Florida should be removed from voting because Jon Huggins of New Mexico was a felon? How does that remove any dead people?
How about the people who are voting in more than one state? And yes, illegals who steal other people's social security numbers and identities.
At BEST, at ABSOLUTE BEST, you are talking about .00004% of the vote. However, that's assuming ALL accused cases are fraud.

In fact, the majority of "fraud" cases (all of them are investigate by the way) are just people who incorrectly filled out the form.
Certainly not those who are trying to enforce the laws, which this administration certainly seems to have a problem with.
Except these weren't laws. You've MADE news laws designed to infringe upon the rights of citizens and NOW you are doing exactly that.

And, let's not forget, you guys ADMITTED that that is what you are doing and why you are doing it.
It's a citizen's job to make sure that they are legally in the system if they want to vote.
No. It is not the citizen's duty to double check to see that they haven't been illegally removed from the voting rolls.

An 86 yr old woman who has voted successfully for nearly 70 years should not have to assume that THIS TIME she won't be allowed to vote.

Further, when she does show up and discovers that all of the sudden her rights have been taken away, she should be able to cast a provisional ballot (something which is ALSO banned under the new legislation).
I've had problems with them registering me in the wrong area, name distortion, etc. But I followed through and got them fixed. You just see racism everywhere because you WANT to see racism everywhere.
No, in this case, it's SPECIFICALLY racism. GOP organizers have deliberately targeted specific minority groups with the express purpose of preventing them from voting.

That, in and of itself, is reason enough to remove the GOP from ever putting up another candidate for office.

You should not be allowed to run for office if your express purpose is to deny people the ability to vote.
August

Belleview, FL

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#26
Sep 25, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
You should not be allowed to run for office if your express purpose is to deny people the ability to vote.
And this is all the fault of the GOP? Is that what you're saying?
see the light

El Paso, TX

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#27
Sep 25, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Voter fraud simply does not happen in any significant amount. Certainly it has ZERO effect on the actual election.
Further, in an effort to "prevent" this fraud your party is demonstrating a hatred for citizens that borders on treason.
Attempting to deny even one person their right to vote is reason enough to suspend the Republican Party from all future elections.
Wanting people to show ID is hatred ?Explain

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#28
Sep 26, 2012
 

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August wrote:
<quoted text>
And this is all the fault of the GOP? Is that what you're saying?
I'm saying that the vast majority of these new voter regulations are being passed by GOP held legislatures with the express purpose of preventing voters from voting.

Here's a clip of one your guys BRAGGING about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Now, if this law prevents "fraud" at a rate 100X greater than fraud actually has been shown to exist, it would prevent only .004% of the vote.

Hardly something that would "allow Romney to win".

No, in order to swing the vote for Romney you need to move the dial 3-5%. Or THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of times more voters than ever cast a fraudulent vote.

If you are TRULY worried about voter fraud, then here is what you do:

You pass a NATIONAL REGULATION that requires ALL PEOPLE to obtain a new voter ID card which ties to their SSN and has a photo on it. You make this card FREE. And you set up mobile distribution centers for the ID which can and do travel to various post offices AND old age homes in order to ensure that EVERYONE gets one. White/Black/Young/Old. You spend a DECADE making sure you have everyone covered.

What you DON'T DO is pass a law which will impact one or two groups more severely. You DON'T hide the fact that these laws are getting passed. You DON'T fail to notify the people effected. You DON'T restrict those people from remedying the situation when they discover they've been stripped of their rights.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#29
Sep 26, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>Wanting people to show ID is hatred ?Explain
Once again...

By requiring specific kinds of ID, you are limiting the rights of voting to people who have that particular ID.

If you grew up in NYC and have lived their your entire life, odds are you don't have a driver's lic. You've never needed one. You don't own a car and probably never will. Particularly if you are from a lower income.

If you are 90 and living in an old age home, you don't have your birth certificate with you (if you have one at all), you don't have a valid driver's lic because you haven't driven in 20 years. And the Lic you have is from a different state back before your daughter put you in a the home near where she lives rather than where you used to live.

Now, let's say you are a member of the working poor and you don't have a lic but you still find out about the law and WANT to rectify it.

You need to travel, ON A WORK DAY, to city hall and wait in line and PAY for an ID in order to be able to perform you CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT. You are losing a day's worth of pay AND paying money. There are a lot of people out there who can't afford to do one, let alone both of those things.

And, at the end of the day, what's the point? You are preventing an insignificant number of fraudulent votes.

But that's not why this is REALLY happening, is it? No. Again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Clearly, this is being done as a means of cheating a huge portion of the population and denying them their rights.
see the light

El Paso, TX

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#30
Sep 26, 2012
 
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm saying that the vast majority of these new voter regulations are being passed by GOP held legislatures with the express purpose of preventing voters from voting.
Here's a clip of one your guys BRAGGING about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Now, if this law prevents "fraud" at a rate 100X greater than fraud actually has been shown to exist, it would prevent only .004% of the vote.
Hardly something that would "allow Romney to win".
No, in order to swing the vote for Romney you need to move the dial 3-5%. Or THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of times more voters than ever cast a fraudulent vote.
If you are TRULY worried about voter fraud, then here is what you do:
You pass a NATIONAL REGULATION that requires ALL PEOPLE to obtain a new voter ID card which ties to their SSN and has a photo on it. You make this card FREE. And you set up mobile distribution centers for the ID which can and do travel to various post offices AND old age homes in order to ensure that EVERYONE gets one. White/Black/Young/Old. You spend a DECADE making sure you have everyone covered.
What you DON'T DO is pass a law which will impact one or two groups more severely. You DON'T hide the fact that these laws are getting passed. You DON'T fail to notify the people effected. You DON'T restrict those people from remedying the situation when they discover they've been stripped of their rights.
Why would you care if ID has to be showed, unless you believe thats Obama's only hope. Hey, I show ID plenty of places, never hear any of you Libs saying our rights have been stripped.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#31
Sep 26, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>Why would you care if ID has to be showed, unless you believe thats Obama's only hope. Hey, I show ID plenty of places, never hear any of you Libs saying our rights have been stripped.
Yes, you, a white middle class suburbs living male between the ages of 20-40 have ID. I also have ID. I also am white, middle class, living in the suburbs.

However, if you were 86, living in a retirement home, and haven't driven a car in 15 years, odds are you don't have an up-to-date drivers lic. You likely also don't have your birth certificate or a valid passport. If you are lucky you may know where those things are, but there's a pretty good chance you don't.

Why should a guy who fought the Nazis in Europe be banned from voting as he has voted in every election for almost 60 years?

Should he be stripped of his right to vote simply because you THINK that there may be voter fraud at a level higher than .0004%?

And why would the Republicans be bragging that banning certain people from voting will "win the election for Romney"?

You think I'm arguing against you guys stripping Americans of their rights because I'm afraid Obama is going to lose? Idiot, if you strip Americans of their rights WE ALL LOSE!

The fact that you don't see that means your party is as anti-American as can be.

Seriously, name one way other than religion that you guys differ from the Taliban?

Hate America? Check.
Want to hurt Americans? Check.
Hate women? Check.
Want to institute a theocracy? Check.
Anti-science? Check.
Want to get into wars we can't win? Check.

Look in the mirror. You are the enemy you claim is coming for us.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

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#32
Sep 27, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you, a white middle class suburbs living male between the ages of 20-40 have ID. I also have ID. I also am white, middle class, living in the suburbs.
However, if you were 86, living in a retirement home, and haven't driven a car in 15 years, odds are you don't have an up-to-date drivers lic. You likely also don't have your birth certificate or a valid passport. If you are lucky you may know where those things are, but there's a pretty good chance you don't.
Why should a guy who fought the Nazis in Europe be banned from voting as he has voted in every election for almost 60 years?
Should he be stripped of his right to vote simply because you THINK that there may be voter fraud at a level higher than .0004%?
And why would the Republicans be bragging that banning certain people from voting will "win the election for Romney"?
You think I'm arguing against you guys stripping Americans of their rights because I'm afraid Obama is going to lose? Idiot, if you strip Americans of their rights WE ALL LOSE!
The fact that you don't see that means your party is as anti-American as can be.
Seriously, name one way other than religion that you guys differ from the Taliban?
Hate America? Check.
Want to hurt Americans? Check.
Hate women? Check.
Want to institute a theocracy? Check.
Anti-science? Check.
Want to get into wars we can't win? Check.
Look in the mirror. You are the enemy you claim is coming for us.
Many knuckleheads for ROmney are playing wilfully ignorant, so that they can defend this anti-suffrage strategem from Karl Rove's foul brain.

Voter caging of neighborhoods likely to vote for Obama is plain, on its face un-American.

* Who? the working poor, elderly, students, handicapped.

* What? Artificial barriers to casting their ballot.

* Where? Not in GOP strong states, but yes, in the swing states.

* Why? To keep registered voters from voting for Obama.

* How? Claiming an unwarented, undocumented, phony surge of "illegal Alien" voters, that has not, and does not exist; will storm the polls to cast unregistered votes for President Obama.

* By Whom? Karl Rove and the GOP.
see the light

El Paso, TX

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#33
Sep 27, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>Why would you care if ID has to be showed, unless you believe thats Obama's only hope. Hey, I show ID plenty of places, never hear any of you Libs saying our rights have been stripped.
The only ones we want to be banned are ILLEGALS. You should not care, unless you think that's Obamas only chance.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#34
Sep 27, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>The only ones we want to be banned are ILLEGALS. You should not care, unless you think that's Obamas only chance.
Elderly people are not illegals.
The working poor are not illegals.
People who have the same name (or a similar name) to someone who is a criminal are not illegals.
People who immigrated here legally are not illegals.
People who have moved are not illegals.
People who have the same name as someone who has died are not illegals.
Democrats who have registered with a fraudulent GOP representative are not illegals.

In fact, the only cases of voter fraud that come to mind are the actions of the GOP in hiring an individual who knowingly defrauds the public by throwing out registrations forms if they are for a party he doesn't like.

Honestly, are you even paying attention to what you are doing?

I'm dead serious. These actions which you are supporting border on treason. You should be ashamed to KNOW anyone who supports this stuff.

The fact that you are openly anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-democracy. It's disgusting.
see the light

El Paso, TX

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#35
Sep 28, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Elderly people are not illegals.
The working poor are not illegals.
People who have the same name (or a similar name) to someone who is a criminal are not illegals.
People who immigrated here legally are not illegals.
People who have moved are not illegals.
People who have the same name as someone who has died are not illegals.
Democrats who have registered with a fraudulent GOP representative are not illegals.
In fact, the only cases of voter fraud that come to mind are the actions of the GOP in hiring an individual who knowingly defrauds the public by throwing out registrations forms if they are for a party he doesn't like.
Honestly, are you even paying attention to what you are doing?
I'm dead serious. These actions which you are supporting border on treason. You should be ashamed to KNOW anyone who supports this stuff.
The fact that you are openly anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-democracy. It's disgusting.
No, your bordering on aid and comfort to the enemies. Be honest and come out and say you want Illegal Aliens to vote. All the others that you name, probably have ID or papers at least for something. You are just making excuses.

Since: Sep 07

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#36
Sep 28, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>No, your bordering on aid and comfort to the enemies. Be honest and come out and say you want Illegal Aliens to vote. All the others that you name, probably have ID or papers at least for something. You are just making excuses.
First of all, there just aren't that many illegal aliens in this country. Certainly not enough to swing a vote.

Second, they are not located in the states where these laws are being pushed through.

CA has a bunch of illegal aliens, but the GOP isn't trying to push through the legislation here. Why?

Because they know that illegals aren't the issue.

Look at a map of which states are being targeted. Then look at a map of highest illegal populations.

Third, ILLEGALS DON'T VOTE. They don't try to vote. They don't succeed in voting. They don't want to draw any attention to themselves.

Fourth, I've given you SPECIFIC examples of people who DO NOT have the kind of ID you are saying the "probably have".

An elderly man who hasn't driven a car in 15 years do not have a valid drivers' lic.

A minimum wage worker living in a city does not have a drivers lic.

And NEITHER of them has an up-to-date passport. Hell, I'm upper middle class and my wife doesn't have a passport AT ALL, let alone one that's up-to-date.

IF you REALLY believe the issue with with illegal aliens, then let's pass a law which applies to ALL CITIZENS EQUALLY.

A new voter ID card issued to EVERYONE with a massive effort by the government to get out there and make sure everyone has their ID.

Not some half-ass law designed to effect specific groups done in secret a few months before an election.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#37
Sep 28, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>No, your bordering on aid and comfort to the enemies.
Oh, and by the way...

"aid and comfort to the enemy"? Really?

I'll tell you what.

You got find a soldier. ANY soldier in our armed forces and you ask them which is better:

A) Better to treat a wounded enemy and save some US lives
B) Kill a wounded enemy and kill a handful of US soldiers with him

You want to prevent the "enemy" from voting so badly that you are willing to prevent CITIZENS from voting? That's ridiculous.

You should be ASHAMED to hold that position.
see the light

El Paso, TX

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#38
Sep 28, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, there just aren't that many illegal aliens in this country. Certainly not enough to swing a vote.
Second, they are not located in the states where these laws are being pushed through.
CA has a bunch of illegal aliens, but the GOP isn't trying to push through the legislation here. Why?
Because they know that illegals aren't the issue.
Look at a map of which states are being targeted. Then look at a map of highest illegal populations.
Third, ILLEGALS DON'T VOTE. They don't try to vote. They don't succeed in voting. They don't want to draw any attention to themselves.
Fourth, I've given you SPECIFIC examples of people who DO NOT have the kind of ID you are saying the "probably have".
An elderly man who hasn't driven a car in 15 years do not have a valid drivers' lic.
A minimum wage worker living in a city does not have a drivers lic.
And NEITHER of them has an up-to-date passport. Hell, I'm upper middle class and my wife doesn't have a passport AT ALL, let alone one that's up-to-date.
IF you REALLY believe the issue with with illegal aliens, then let's pass a law which applies to ALL CITIZENS EQUALLY.
A new voter ID card issued to EVERYONE with a massive effort by the government to get out there and make sure everyone has their ID.
Not some half-ass law designed to effect specific groups done in secret a few months before an election.
First of all, don't say Illegals don't vote . They certainly do. Fake documents. And there's 12million or more. Don't try to say their not a problem. Obama brings em in and bribes em.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#39
Sep 28, 2012
 

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see the light wrote:
<quoted text>First of all, don't say Illegals don't vote . They certainly do. Fake documents. And there's 12million or more. Don't try to say their not a problem. Obama brings em in and bribes em.
Show your sources.

Show that there are more than 12 million illegals.
Show that a significant number of them try to vote. The way you talk it should be easy for you to prove that 90% of them are casting fake votes, but I'll be happy if you can demonstrate that just 50% of them do it.

As for Obama bringing them in, he has deported more illegals in his one term than Bush did in two.

And as for bribing them? With what? The DREAM act? Please.

If someone has been here since they were 2 years old and now they're 25, they're Americans in all but paperwork. Why not give these people who have only ever known this country an opportunity to legally rectify their situations.

It's FAR more efficient to get the $500 and proper documentation from these people than it would be to try and find them.

I could give a crap if the police hunt down and deport a law abiding college student who grew up in Costa Mesa. I want them tracking down the guy who's here running a meth lab in Tuscon.
see the light

El Paso, TX

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#41
Sep 28, 2012
 

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Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Show your sources.
Show that there are more than 12 million illegals.
Show that a significant number of them try to vote. The way you talk it should be easy for you to prove that 90% of them are casting fake votes, but I'll be happy if you can demonstrate that just 50% of them do it.
As for Obama bringing them in, he has deported more illegals in his one term than Bush did in two.
And as for bribing them? With what? The DREAM act? Please.
If someone has been here since they were 2 years old and now they're 25, they're Americans in all but paperwork. Why not give these people who have only ever known this country an opportunity to legally rectify their situations.
It's FAR more efficient to get the $500 and proper documentation from these people than it would be to try and find them.
I could give a crap if the police hunt down and deport a law abiding college student who grew up in Costa Mesa. I want them tracking down the guy who's here running a meth lab in Tuscon.
Obama arrests illegals and then , lets them go. He ignored the Constitution and Congress and gave them amnesty. All you have to do is look up how many illegal immigrants in the U.S. and it'll tell you. I don't want any of them here. U.S. is BROKE, or haven't you heard. We cannot afford to support Mexico. Plus all the money Obama sends to our enemies.

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