Firearms rally scheduled for Chambers...

Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square

There are 10987 comments on the Chambersburg Public Opinion story from Mar 29, 2013, titled Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square. In it, Chambersburg Public Opinion reports that:

Two local organizations are hosting a Second Amendment Freedom Rally on from noone to 2 p.m. April 6 on Courthouse Plaza in downtown Chambersburg.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chambersburg Public Opinion.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5296 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Even Wild Bill Clinton ordered a study and with it being cut to the smallest numbers was over 800,000 self defense uses of guns per year. There are literally hundreds of REALISTIC numbers (by both dems and gops) not just polls which show self defense out weighs illegal gun use by vast amounts.
The most recent data from FBI Uniform Crime Reports found that in 2010, for every single justifiable homicide by a civilian using a firearm there were over 37 criminal firearm homicides.

Justifiable homicide:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Murder circumstances:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5297 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> BUT law abiding citizens are less likely to shoot another person especially if just showing the gun works. Most criminals tend to flee once they realize the victim is armed so most times the gun is not even fired. You once again attempt to twist facts. As the other poster pointed out criminals are deterred by gun owners and tend to avoid them for unarmed victims thus the gun did it's job without even being shown.
This false belief has been thoroughly debunked.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5298 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> "Homicide" not murders. Self defense shootings are homicides but not murders. When a cop does it then no one screams about it but when a would be victim of a violent crime does it then suddenly it's bad. I have no problem with a high homicide rate as long as it is the criminals doing the dying instead of unarmed victims.
The distinction between justifiable homicide and criminal homicide has been made. The conclusion stands.

Try again.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5299 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> So what do you call it when California, New york, DC, Chicago passes a gun control law? What do these laws say happens to the guns that were legal are now outlawed?
http://www.policymic.com/articles/25950/9-use...
We’ve heard it over and over again, particularly on shows like Morning Joe. Anyone who thinks that the government is “coming to take your guns” is a paranoid loon, watching for black helicopters and guarding their sheep from soldiers. Unfortunately for those formerly right leaning, Second Amendment minded folks who bought into this story, reality has come screaming up from behind well ahead of schedule.
Following the passage of “The SAFE Act” in New York State, Big Brother got busy pretty quickly grabbing up the guns. Of course nobody was reporting on it very much until they managed to collect them from the wrong guy and a judge made them give them back.
BUFFALO, N.Y.— Thursday, a state Supreme Court Judge ruled guns seized from David Lewis, 35, must be returned to him after he was incorrectly identified as violating the mental health provision of the SAFE Act.
“We know that from the health care agency to the State Police, there was some kind of breach,” said Lewis’ attorney, Jim Tresmond.
You continue to ignore my question. I answered yours - why won't you answer mine?

Is it your claim that the 2nd Amendment ensures that anyone can own any weapon they want without any restrictions? Is that what you believe?

Let us be clear - tell exactly what your stance is.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5300 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
No one is going to take your gun. LIE!
I said nobody is trying to take your guns - there is no pending legislation to that effect. That statement is 100% true. Calling it a lie is completely mendacious.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5301 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
Gun control laws are reasonable. LIE! Only to those who want to disarm the citizens.
What do you consider reasonable? You've not denied that you want anyone to be able to own any weapon without any restrictions whatsoever. That is a completely unreasonable stance, so you're in no position to judge what's reasonable and what isn't. So your accusation of a lie on this issue is complete horseshit.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5302 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
Gun control laws prevent crime. LIE! Violent crime rises in gun control areas.
You are lying. The OPPOSITE is true - as I have repeatedly proven here.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5303 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
Most people use the words "murder" and "homicide" interchangeably, but they are not the same. Although murder and homicide are both used to describe the act of killing another human being, the circumstances surrounding the charges are different.
The easiest way to describe the differences between murder and homicide is that homicide is the killing of another human being, while murder requires the intent to kill another human being. Homicide can be used to describe any death where another person is at fault, but there are mitigating circumstances that can influence the charge of homicide. When someone is convicted of murder, however, they are not only convicted of a homicide, but also the malicious intent to kill.
The most recent data from FBI Uniform Crime Reports found that in 2010, for every single justifiable homicide by a civilian using a firearm there were over 37 criminal firearm homicides.

Justifiable homicide:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Murder circumstances:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5304 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
In the United States, we have terms like "justifiable homicide" and "non-criminal homicide" that are used to describe acts of homicide where there is no "mens rea" involved. The U.S. requires that the prosecution in a criminal trial prove both actus reus and mens rea in a criminal crime; the former translates as "guilty mind" and the latter refers to "guilty act". Actus reus is simply the proof that a defendant committed a criminal act, while mens rea is a little more complicated. In order to prove mens rea, the prosecution must show that the defendant either had an intent to commit the crime or acted with criminal negligence.
The most recent data from FBI Uniform Crime Reports found that in 2010, for every single justifiable homicide by a civilian using a firearm there were over 37 criminal firearm homicides.

Justifiable homicide:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Murder circumstances:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5305 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
Criminal homicide can either be classified as murder or manslaughter. Typically, a murder charge implies an intent to kill, while manslaughter implies criminal negligence. For example, a drunk driver who gets into an accident and kills someone else might be charged with vehicular manslaughter, while someone who shoots his enemy in the chest would be charged with murder.
The most recent data from FBI Uniform Crime Reports found that in 2010, for every single justifiable homicide by a civilian using a firearm there were over 37 criminal firearm homicides.

Justifiable homicide:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Murder circumstances:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5306 Aug 7, 2013
Gun use in the United States: results from two national surveys

Abstract
Objectives—To determine the relative incidence of gun victimization versus self defense gun use by civilians in the United States, and the circumstances and probable legality of the self defense uses.

Methods—National random digit dial telephone surveys of the adult population were conducted in 1996 and 1999. The Harvard surveys appear unique among private surveys in two respects: asking (1) open ended questions about defensive gun use incidents and (2) detailed questions about both gun victimization and self defense gun use. Five criminal court judges were asked to assess whether the self reported defensive gun uses were likely to have been legal.

Results—Even after excluding many reported firearm victimizations, far more survey respondents report having been threatened or intimidated with a gun than having used a gun to protect themselves. A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly.

Conclusions—Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society.

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/4/2...

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#5307 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> The definition of murder and homicide has been posted several times for you.
I was the one who posted the real ones, sticky lips.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#5308 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
Most people use the words "murder" and "homicide" interchangeably, but they are not the same..
You are moving the goalposts.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#5309 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> The definition of murder and homicide has been posted several times for you. You look it up and post your findings here and let's see you eat crow.
Let's see what Tray had posted as he ties to move the goalposts...

Tray wrote:
<quoted text> LIE. homicide is a death, NOT murder.!

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#5310 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
In the United States, we have terms like "justifiable homicide" and "non-criminal homicide" that are used to describe acts of homicide where there is no "mens rea" involved.
Yes, you can copy and paste plagiarized material.

You can also move the goalposts.

Let's see what Tray had posted as he ties to move the goalposts...

Tray wrote:
<quoted text> LIE. homicide is a death, NOT murder.!

++

Homicide is death, not murder.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#5311 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
Criminal homicide can either be classified as murder or manslaughter.
Now it's manslaughter...

Let's see what Tray had posted as he ties to move the goalposts...

Tray wrote: " LIE. homicide is a death, NOT murder.!"

++

Homicide is death, not murder. According to you.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#5313 Aug 7, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
What an incredibly irrational and nonsensical metaphor.
Seriously, do you have a brain injury?
Instead of the old "insult" try debating with facts.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#5314 Aug 7, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it a lie.
----------
Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence
States with more gun laws have fewer gun-related deaths, according to a new study released Wednesday by Boston Children's Hospital.
...
Fleegler and researchers from Boston Children's Hospital, Harvard Medical School and Harvard School of Public Health studied information from all 50 states between 2007 to 2010, analyzing all firearm-related deaths reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and data on firearm laws compiled by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
States with the most laws had a mortality rate 42% lower than those states with the fewest laws, they found. The strong law states' firearm-related homicide rate was also 40% lower and their firearm-related suicide rate was 37% lower.
Specifically, Fleeger pointed to states with many gun laws like Massachusetts, which had 3.4 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people, and New Jersey, which had 4.9 gun-deaths per 100,000 people. Conversely, he focused on states with less laws like Louisiana, which had 18 deaths per 100,000 individuals and Alaska, which had 17.5 deaths per 100,000 individuals.
The study also found that laws requiring universal background checks and permits to purchase firearms were most clearly associated with decreasing rates of gun-related homicides and suicides.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/201...
Once again "gun violence" also includes self defense use of a gun which is NOT a criminal action and to list it is altering the numbers of "criminal" use. Once again this is akin to Bluming idiot saying the Boston bomber was a victim of gun violence when shot by the police. Pluse you leave out when gun ownership by citizens is infringed the violent crime rate such as assault and rape go up. You simply want to exchange one crime for another. All your study shows is more criminals get away with assault and rape because the victims are unarmed. In real world numbers (not random phone calls or ratios that limit the other factors) the opposite is true. Guns protect the gun owner many more times than an unarmed victim.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#5315 Aug 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Instead of the old "insult" try debating with facts.
All I've done is try to debate the facts. But you ignore the facts and continue re-posting the same old debunked gunner talking points. At some point, all that's left is for me to begin pointing out your rhetorical and logical handicaps. Sorry if you find that insulting, but it's the truth.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#5316 Aug 7, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
Gun use in the United States: results from two national surveys
Abstract
Objectives—To determine the relative incidence of gun victimization versus self defense gun use by civilians in the United States, and the circumstances and probable legality of the self defense uses.
Methods—National random digit dial telephone surveys of the adult population were conducted in 1996 and 1999. The Harvard surveys appear unique among private surveys in two respects: asking (1) open ended questions about defensive gun use incidents and (2) detailed questions about both gun victimization and self defense gun use. Five criminal court judges were asked to assess whether the self reported defensive gun uses were likely to have been legal.
Results—Even after excluding many reported firearm victimizations, far more survey respondents report having been threatened or intimidated with a gun than having used a gun to protect themselves. A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly.
Conclusions—Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society.
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/4/2...
"May could be might". Ha ha ha. Random survey. ha ha ha. Get real numbers and then flush the crap.

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