Use of force in Capitol Hill shooting debated

Oct 5, 2013 Full story: The Washington Post 34

Federal agents trying to stop the black Infiniti speeding between the White House and the U.S. Capito l fired seven shots at an unarmed driver with a toddler in the car as it rushed away from them, an uncommon tactic that occurred during a highly unusual chase.

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Whitey in White House

Bohemia, NY

#1 Oct 5, 2013
If a white president was occupying the White House instead of BO you know the Rev Al would be whipping up all kinds of media hoopla and organizing to march by now.
lolol

Albuquerque, NM

#3 Oct 5, 2013
after buying up billions of rounds of ammo this past year they see a need to actually use large amounts to justify their purchases
Responsibility

Petaluma, CA

#5 Oct 5, 2013
Whitey in White House wrote:
.
You make assumptions which are fact less and presumptuous.

“Goodbye ObamaCare”

Since: Mar 09

Hello Impeachment time

#6 Oct 5, 2013
If she were white the media wouldn't be asking this question.
Whitey in White House

Bohemia, NY

#7 Oct 5, 2013
Responsibility wrote:
<quoted text>
Take gas.
Oolongti

Austin, TX

#8 Oct 5, 2013
This isn't a racial issue. THis is a security issue. Just two weeks prior, a crazed gunman shot and killed people at the Navy Yard. The US capitol is one of the most targeted sites in the world for terrorists, and anarchists. The police acted appropriately. They had no idea this person wasn't driving with: a loaded weapon, a bomb, or had a car full of explosives. Her family should take a tumble out in reality and understand that she was troubled for a LONG TIME, and THEY DID NOTHING to intervene. It is only now they are whining about the police and their decision to use deadly force. IF she had gotten away, and run into a building with a weapon or a bomb, would her family be whining about the police not stopping her?
She placed herself in harm's way. Most of the rest of us have two brain cells that fire appropriately, and can deduce that driving 80 miles an hour in a 25 mile an hour zone, ramming police cars, secret service personnel, and other places along the way will probably not go well for us, SO WE DON"T DO SHIT LIKE THIS!
IT is very sad this happened to her, but it's another reminder of how stupid it is to not address our woefully inadequate mental health system in this country. Most people who are cuckoo for cocopuffs get a bottle of pills and sent home. THey are left to their own delusional devices. Families are either ignorant, or apathetic to the mentally ill family member, and assume that pills will fix it all. WELL DUH! WHat the heck can you expect? Her own sister and brother should have been able to see the signs....( he's a cop...and her sister is in the medical field) If she's having job issues, raging at patients and employees, THERE"S YOUR SIGN! If she's having a tantrum because she can't park in a handicapped parking spot, THERE's YOUR SIGN! She also had a history of head injury....DID ANYONE IN HER FAMILY EVER TAKE HER TO A BONA FIDE NEURO/PSYCHIATRIST for EVALUATION? Many times, people with frontal lobe or temporal lobe brain injuries lose their internal breaking system, conscience, mood stability, and LOGICAL THINKING....
THis wasn't just post partum depression screeching, although it could have been a contributing factor....SHE WAS CUCKOO before giving birth....
THe family needs to stop laying blame on police officers who are DOING THEIR JOB...( many who were on that day were working WITHOUT PAY, due to the shutdown)....I guess some folks think cops should be clairvoyent in 30 secs. or less and know by looking at the outside of a speeding vehicle that it's just a delusional post partum depressed mother and a toddler zooming down the road crashing into barriers and cars....
It's a little hard to taze a vehicle...duh!
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#9 Oct 5, 2013
"Brian Leary, a Secret Service spokesman, declined to provide a copy of his agency’s use-of-force or chase policies. Lt. Kimberly Schneider, a spokeswoman for the Capitol Police, did the same.'

This says quite a bit about the mindset of these jarhead robocops.

This was an unjustified shooting. Almost any civilian would react with great fear if you had the barrel of a gun two feet away from your face, threats of lethal force, a baby in the car and you hadn't done much of anything. Video clearly shows even after the end there was hardly any damage to the front of her vehicle. That means these claims of ramming a police barrier are exaggerated. At least one media report stated she got out of her car and was then shot to death. The claim of a Secret Service agent being run over is also ridiculous, given the fact he was released from examination immediately without a single bandage. The distraught female cop with red hair attending to the victim in her last moments could be a necessary witness.

The overwhelming use of force was so outrageous, it should send shivers up the spine of any American wanting reasonable security and reasonable response to an unarmed woman clearly terrified with a baby in the car, which was known from the get go. The officers shooting her, injuring her and finally shooting her to death should be on trial... none of this cover everybody's ass internal investigation crap. The thuggery of Congress in their jubilation upon a mother being shot to death in front of her child for no goddamn good reason should also be exposed for what it is... ANIMAL. Let a real investigation happen and send those skinhead vicious thugs to prison for their crimes.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#10 Oct 5, 2013
It's appalling, that people are willing to let this fade away without an outcry of sickness and disgust. Americans have become chickenshit and afraid to give their opinions to their representatives. Who in hell would trust representatives who cheer the killing of an unarmed mother? The whole country is sick. Shame on those Congressmen and Senators! Shame!
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#11 Oct 5, 2013
Photo evidence clearly contradicts one by one every single claim the police have made. They are liars and they are killers. Murderers will NEVER stand justified before God!
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#12 Oct 5, 2013
These bullshit routines designed to justify an outrageously foul kill, attempting to justify it with foul nonsense of "you can't taze a car", or "she was hearing Obama talking", are crap. She may have been out of her car when killed. The first cops saw she had no weapon and that a child was in the car. She was completely boxed and stopped, couldn't go anywhere. It was a bad shooting and an intentional murder. Cops joined in shooting to cover the foulness of the first cop shooter. They cover each other's asses. You can tell from the pictures some of these guys are monsters... unthinking monsters. Trying to justify this bad shoot makes you a monster, too, along with all the cheering Congress people.

Since when do we summarily execute women for driving bad, or acting stupid? Hell, half the female driving population should be dead!
Oolongti

Austin, TX

#13 Oct 5, 2013
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
"Brian Leary, a Secret Service spokesman, declined to provide a copy of his agency’s use-of-force or chase policies. Lt. Kimberly Schneider, a spokeswoman for the Capitol Police, did the same.'
THEY CANNOT RELEASE POLICIES TO THE MEDIA DURING AN INVESTIGATION....
This says quite a bit about the mindset of these jarhead robocops.
This was an unjustified shooting. Almost any civilian would react with great fear if you had the barrel of a gun two feet away from your face, threats of lethal force, a baby in the car and you hadn't done much of anything.
YES, A PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD BE FEARFUL AND WOULD STOP....BUT SHE DIDN"T....SHE DROVE OFF AT 80 miles an HOUR DOWN THE STREET....
Video clearly shows even after the end there was hardly any damage to the front of her vehicle.
SHE HIT THE POLICE CAR WITH THE BACK OF HER CAR....NO DAMAGE TO THE FRONT...here's a link to pictures of what the police car looked like....
http://news.yahoo.com/mother-woman-killed-dc-...
That means these claims of ramming a police barrier are exaggerated.
SEE ABOVE....
At least one media report stated she got out of her car and was then shot to death.
HOW WOULD THE POLICE KNOW IF SHE DID OR DIDN"T HAVE A BOMB STRAPPED TO HER PERSON??? SHOULD THEY HAVE JUST LET HER RUN INTO A CROWD OF TOURISTS??? THEY DON"T HAVE TIME TO POLITELY ASK HER TO OPEN HER COAT< OR REMOVE HER SHIRT< OR LAY DOWN....THEY ALREADY TOLD HER TO STOP>>>>>SHE DIDN"T OBEY>>>>
The claim of a Secret Service agent being run over is also ridiculous, given the fact he was released from examination immediately without a single bandage.
ATTEMPTING TO ASSAULT WITH A VEHICLE OR ASSAULT WITH A VEHICLE IS NOT CONTINGENT UPON GRAVITY OF INJURY UNDER THE LAW....THE VERY FACT THAT SHE USED HER CAR AS A WEAPON IS ENOUGH TO WARRANT AN ESCALATION OF FORCE.
The distraught female cop with red hair attending to the victim in her last moments could be a necessary witness.
The overwhelming use of force was so outrageous, it should send shivers up the spine of any American wanting reasonable security and reasonable response to an unarmed woman clearly terrified with a baby in the car, which was known from the get go. The officers shooting her, injuring her and finally shooting her to death should be on trial... none of this cover everybody's ass internal investigation crap. The thuggery of Congress in their jubilation upon a mother being shot to death in front of her child for no goddamn good reason should also be exposed for what it is... ANIMAL. Let a real investigation happen and send those skinhead vicious thugs to prison for their crimes.
THOSE SKIN HEAD VISCIOUS THUGS WERE PROTECTING OUR CAPITOL AND THE TOURISTS ON THE SIDEWALKS THAT DAY WITHOUT PAY.....
THEY WERE WORKING DESPITE BEING PLACED ON FURLOUGH....
AND I'M GLAD THEY WERE THERE....
THIS WOMAN WAS KILLED BECAUSE SHE PUT HERSELF IN THAT PLACE UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, ALBEIT SHE WAS NUTS.
HOWEVER, BEING IRRATIONAL DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET A FREE TICKET TO KILL OTHER PEOPLE WITH YOUR CAR, DESPITE WHAT THE LITTLE VOICES IN YOUR HEAD TELL YOU.
HER FAMILY SHOULD ASK THEMSELVES WHY THEY DID NOTHING FOR THE YEARS PRECEDING HER POST PARTUM DEPRESSION RELATING TO HER HEAD INJURY. SHE OBVIOUSLY WAS HAVING RAGE ISSUES AT WORK, AND GOT FIRED FOR IT.
IT'S TOO BAD SHE WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME FOR THE WRONG REASONS...BUT SUNSHINE, SHE WASN'T THERE TO TOUR THE CAPITOL....SHE WANTED TO KILL OBAMA BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT HE WAS "WATCHING" HER....
IT IS TOO BAD....BUT THE COPS DID THEIR JOB.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#14 Oct 5, 2013
Note the lie of "she wanted to kill Obama." When a person must resort to outright lies (like the police statements contradicted by photos), then you know their intent is not justice, nor understanding.

Out of control police are out of control police. The second we allow them to act as an agency without any recourse to humane reason, then we have the Gestapo ordering citizens down so they can shoot whoever they want whenever they want.
Oolongti

Austin, TX

#15 Oct 5, 2013
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
These bullshit routines designed to justify an outrageously foul kill, attempting to justify it with foul nonsense of "you can't taze a car", or "she was hearing Obama talking", are crap. She may have been out of her car when killed. The first cops saw she had no weapon and that a child was in the car. She was completely boxed and stopped, couldn't go anywhere. It was a bad shooting and an intentional murder. Cops joined in shooting to cover the foulness of the first cop shooter. They cover each other's asses. You can tell from the pictures some of these guys are monsters... unthinking monsters. Trying to justify this bad shoot makes you a monster, too, along with all the cheering Congress people.
Since when do we summarily execute women for driving bad, or acting stupid? Hell, half the female driving population should be dead!
I guess you missed the photo of the police car she rammed....WITH her child in the car....
I guess you missed the part about her IGNORING the police officer's telling her to STOP...and drove her car 80 miles an hour down the street through red lights, and traffic....WITH her child in the car...
How would the cop know whether or not she was a soft threat or a hard threat, and had a car load of explosives, or had a bomb strapped to her person?
Perhaps you should go to school re: terrorists in this country, before you judge.
YOU weren't there, and YOU didn't have to hold a gun, or stand in harm's way.
I support their decision. It may have not been the best one, BUT they acted appropriately given the circumstances.
She wasn't complying....she didn't stop....
I hope toxicology will prove she was either on something, or wasn't taking her meds as prescribed....either way, she was a looney and shouldn't have had a child with her in the first place....if she was that UNSTABLE, her family should have had the courage to have her committed. She already spent prolonged time in a psych ward, had been on medication, had a previous head injury....she was NUTS! If she had run over your family member, or you, would you be telling the police, "OH DON"T SHOOT HER??? just let her keep driving until she runs out of gas???"
Maybe the police did her child a favor.....she was so crazy, she could have just as easily killed herself AND her kid the way she was driving...
AND BTW....
MEN are twice as likely to be involved in a car crash due to poor judgement, road rage, et. al than a woman....
http://www.aami.com.au/sites/default/files/fm...

DUH!
http://news.yahoo.com/mother-woman-killed-dc-...
THe police car she hit looks pretty smashed to me....I guess backing into a police car at a high rate of speed won't do much damage to the front of your car....but god only knows what her little kid was feeling....
Oolongti

Austin, TX

#16 Oct 5, 2013
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
Note the lie of "she wanted to kill Obama." When a person must resort to outright lies (like the police statements contradicted by photos), then you know their intent is not justice, nor understanding.
Out of control police are out of control police. The second we allow them to act as an agency without any recourse to humane reason, then we have the Gestapo ordering citizens down so they can shoot whoever they want whenever they want.
The note she left at her apartment stated she was being watched by Obama and under surveillance......this was independent of any of the Washington Police and was found by both her family and the Stamford, Conn. police who entered her condo.....
Further, photos depending on VANTAGE point, do not tell the complete story....they only tell the viewer ONE VANTAGE point...
you cannot judge the police by what they were forced to do that day under duress...
I suppose you would have just waived her on through the barrier???
Officer Klink

Bonham, TX

#17 Oct 5, 2013
Oolongti wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you missed the photo of the police car she rammed....WITH her child in the car....
I guess you missed the part about her IGNORING the police officer's telling her to STOP...and drove her car 80 miles an hour down the street through red lights, and traffic....WITH her child in the car...
How would the cop know whether or not she was a soft threat or a hard threat, and had a car load of explosives, or had a bomb strapped to her person?
Perhaps you should go to school re: terrorists in this country, before you judge.
YOU weren't there, and YOU didn't have to hold a gun, or stand in harm's way.
I support their decision. It may have not been the best one, BUT they acted appropriately given the circumstances.
She wasn't complying....she didn't stop....
I hope toxicology will prove she was either on something, or wasn't taking her meds as prescribed....either way, she was a looney and shouldn't have had a child with her in the first place....if she was that UNSTABLE, her family should have had the courage to have her committed. She already spent prolonged time in a psych ward, had been on medication, had a previous head injury....she was NUTS! If she had run over your family member, or you, would you be telling the police, "OH DON"T SHOOT HER??? just let her keep driving until she runs out of gas???"
Maybe the police did her child a favor.....she was so crazy, she could have just as easily killed herself AND her kid the way she was driving...
AND BTW....
MEN are twice as likely to be involved in a car crash due to poor judgement, road rage, et. al than a woman....
http://www.aami.com.au/sites/default/files/fm...
DUH!
http://news.yahoo.com/mother-woman-killed-dc-...
THe police car she hit looks pretty smashed to me....I guess backing into a police car at a high rate of speed won't do much damage to the front of your car....but god only knows what her little kid was feeling....
Seig Heil! Show me your papers! Ve need to interrogate you!
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#18 Oct 5, 2013
Oolongti wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you missed the photo of the police car she rammed....WITH her child in the car....
I guess you missed the part about her IGNORING the police officer's telling her to STOP...and drove her car 80 miles an hour down the street through red lights, and traffic....WITH her child in the car...
How would the cop know whether or not she was a soft threat or a hard threat, and had a car load of explosives, or had a bomb strapped to her person?
Perhaps you should go to school re: terrorists in this country, before you judge.
YOU weren't there, and YOU didn't have to hold a gun, or stand in harm's way.
I support their decision. It may have not been the best one, BUT they acted appropriately given the circumstances.
She wasn't complying....she didn't stop....
I hope toxicology will prove she was either on something, or wasn't taking her meds as prescribed....either way, she was a looney and shouldn't have had a child with her in the first place....if she was that UNSTABLE, her family should have had the courage to have her committed. She already spent prolonged time in a psych ward, had been on medication, had a previous head injury....she was NUTS! If she had run over your family member, or you, would you be telling the police, "OH DON"T SHOOT HER??? just let her keep driving until she runs out of gas???"
Maybe the police did her child a favor.....she was so crazy, she could have just as easily killed herself AND her kid the way she was driving...
AND BTW....
MEN are twice as likely to be involved in a car crash due to poor judgement, road rage, et. al than a woman....
http://www.aami.com.au/sites/default/files/fm...
DUH!
http://news.yahoo.com/mother-woman-killed-dc-...
THe police car she hit looks pretty smashed to me....I guess backing into a police car at a high rate of speed won't do much damage to the front of your car....but god only knows what her little kid was feeling....
Lies won't make your arguments for you. She never rammed that police car. There's video of how that police car was damaged and she was nowhere near it. There is no evidence video, or otherwise that she ever sped at 80 miles an hour. The existent video shows speed far under that. The lack of damage to the rear of her car should also alert you to lying actually working against you.

You're a goddamn liar, like the cops so far.
Oolongti

Austin, TX

#19 Oct 5, 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/politics/u-s-ca...
According to the father of her child, HE REPORTED her to the local police that she was having delusions in December....and thought she was being watched by Obama....
HELLLLOOOOO??? there was no LYING on my part here...
She clearly was cuckoo for coco puffs, and her family DID NOTHING to have her committed....instead, they let her stay in a place by herself, and TRUSTED a delusional human being to be compliant with her medications and treatment, and FURTHER, trusted her to take care of the toddler....which for all intents and purposes, she proved to the world, she was incapable of doing, since she drove 80 miles an hour down Pennsylvania avenue and rammed a police car....DUH!
Her sister reported that MIRIAM told her that she was okay, and could be off of her medications....
I can't tell you how many schizophrenics and bi-polars will tell you the same thing, and IT"S A DAMN LIE....they can NEVER be off of their meds...
THE CLEAR SIGN to her family was back in December when she was 'hearing voices' and delusional...
In addition, she obviously was meaning to do harm to her spouse/boyfriend/fiancee` because the letter she left him had a powdery white substance in it....
Maybe she was all "coked up"??? maybe she was trying to intimidate him....make him think it was something harmful....
One thing's for sure, she didn't belong in a car with her child....
The police saved many lives that day by stopping her from going further....
it is a tragic thing....but the police are not to blame for her demise....
Her family and her health care providers are....
they should have had her committed....she was mentally ill....and they let her drive, with her child in the car, and she nearly killed several people in the process....
I'm sorry for her....but I am more sorry for people who fail to realize what a hard job it is to be a police officer.
Celastrina

Kuantan, Malaysia

#20 Oct 5, 2013
US is heading toward hyper inflation. Just like Mozambique. Except in big US cities, people will became very hungry and they'll into zombies.

8million in New York. 38million in California.
That's a lot of hungry zombies.

Preppers will run out of bullets on first day of apocalypse.

The poor women must had be worried sick thinking all these things. With a child to feed and all. Trigger happy cops protects the elites.

Guess she was the first zomby of the apocalypse.
Oolongti

Austin, TX

#21 Oct 5, 2013
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
<quoted text>
Lies won't make your arguments for you. She never rammed that police car. There's video of how that police car was damaged and she was nowhere near it. There is no evidence video, or otherwise that she ever sped at 80 miles an hour. The existent video shows speed far under that. The lack of damage to the rear of her car should also alert you to lying actually working against you.
You're a goddamn liar, like the cops so far.
you better read the affidavit from the tourist from portland oregon, who WAS THERE and saw the car, saw the cops, and saw her ram the police car....
I guess that person is lying too???
THere's a penalty for perjury, sunshine...
and calling me a liar will not change the fact that she was a nut job, in our nation's capitol, posing a threat to tourists, and personnel....if she was such a sweetie pie, why didn't she GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE CAR and put her hands in the air??? DUH!!
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#22 Oct 5, 2013
Oolongti wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/ politics/u-s-capitol-shooting/
According to the father of her child, HE REPORTED her to the local police that she was having delusions in December....and thought she was being watched by Obama....
HELLLLOOOOO??? there was no LYING on my part here...
She clearly was cuckoo for coco puffs, and her family DID NOTHING to have her committed....instead, they let her stay in a place by herself, and TRUSTED a delusional human being to be compliant with her medications and treatment, and FURTHER, trusted her to take care of the toddler....which for all intents and purposes, she proved to the world, she was incapable of doing, since she drove 80 miles an hour down Pennsylvania avenue and rammed a police car....DUH!
Her sister reported that MIRIAM told her that she was okay, and could be off of her medications....
I can't tell you how many schizophrenics and bi-polars will tell you the same thing, and IT"S A DAMN LIE....they can NEVER be off of their meds...
THE CLEAR SIGN to her family was back in December when she was 'hearing voices' and delusional...
In addition, she obviously was meaning to do harm to her spouse/boyfriend/fiancee` because the letter she left him had a powdery white substance in it....
Maybe she was all "coked up"??? maybe she was trying to intimidate him....make him think it was something harmful....
One thing's for sure, she didn't belong in a car with her child....
The police saved many lives that day by stopping her from going further....
it is a tragic thing....but the police are not to blame for her demise....
Her family and her health care providers are....
they should have had her committed....she was mentally ill....and they let her drive, with her child in the car, and she nearly killed several people in the process....
I'm sorry for her....but I am more sorry for people who fail to realize what a hard job it is to be a police officer.
Being mentally ill doesn't justify summary execution for refusing to stop. Those cops didn't need to shoot her. The first one shot because of anger over her not stopping and probably errant information from the first officers, hyped up and looking for a reason to act out. Their state of mind should be examined as thoroughly as some wish to posthumously examine the victim's state of mind. These Gestapo type officers make it bad for all other police in America.

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