Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 216810 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#87528 Apr 24, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I got interested in finding who it was that spoke back to me one night out of fuel, in a storm, in the mtns with a partial panel plus part of my landing gear gone 100nm N of Kotz. Also the extra 10 gals of gas was nice. As I said before, I was a perfect evo until then, cockpit conversion so to speak. I searched and I found. That's not a brainwashing. I was holding an egg this evening and thinking how much work it would be for you folks to explain the evo of that process, and who is really being fooled here! God is proven to exist by what has been made, what you can feel, see, hear, smell and taste. Even the eyes you use to read this comment are a wonderful gift, not formed by blind chance.
Jesus said "If you don't believe what Moses wrote, you will never believe what I say". One thing Moses didn't write was - "In Six Days". So when you tell us Moses is discredited what are you calling Christ? You are braver than I my friend.
I thought exactly like you guys, that people who "believe" were nice, a little stupid and certainly unscientific. I tell you what, if you say you folks are objective, scientific and fair minded, open to argument and sound logic, then I challenge you to read Denton and Behe then come back and tell me I'm the fool to my face and I will buy dinner.
Personally I don’t disbelieve miracles Mark, in fact had an experience myself when I was young. Although I don’t necessarily agree with the comment "I thought exactly like you guys" because we do not know how "you guys" think, I do in fact believe in God. But you cannot dismiss Science, and the power of evolution. In fact evolution in itself is a miracle - A miracle of nature. How God is intertwined into the fabric of nature and vice versa to me is a phenomenon that need not be explained by a book, or by facts. There are no facts, just personal beliefs on how it all ties together. And as you have eloquently pointed out, it is truly a miracle.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#87529 Apr 24, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>LOL! That's funny since very little, if any, of your bible can be attributed to anyone in particular.
The bible is in harmony, it was written over a period of approximately 1400 years by about 40 writers from different backgrounds. No man made literature over the same time period and by different authors would have total agreement as the inspired writers had. If you and others would spend time studying scripture rather than going on just what you hear you would know what scripture says.Since you all have very little idea (if any) of what scripture says it is silly trying to refute scripture that you do not know what it says. The ignorance of one the other day on e Paul's apostleship was blatant and they were trying to argue against it but had next to zero clue about Paul.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87530 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>The bible is in harmony, it was written over a period of approximately 1400 years by about 40 writers from different backgrounds. No man made literature over the same time period and by different authors would have total agreement as the inspired writers had. If you and others would spend time studying scripture rather than going on just what you hear you would know what scripture says.Since you all have very little idea (if any) of what scripture says it is silly trying to refute scripture that you do not know what it says. The ignorance of one the other day on e Paul's apostleship was blatant and they were trying to argue against it but had next to zero clue about Paul.
The Bible is not in "harmony". Like any other work of man there are quite a few inconsistencies and self contradictions in the Bible:

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#87531 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>The bible is in harmony, it was written over a period of approximately 1400 years by about 40 writers from different backgrounds. No man made literature over the same time period and by different authors would have total agreement as the inspired writers had. If you and others would spend time studying scripture rather than going on just what you hear you would know what scripture says.Since you all have very little idea (if any) of what scripture says it is silly trying to refute scripture that you do not know what it says. The ignorance of one the other day on e Paul's apostleship was blatant and they were trying to argue against it but had next to zero clue about Paul.
Interesting, don't you think, that the various Christian sects don't agree on the number of books to be included in the bible.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#87532 Apr 24, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yet that is exactly what the bible does often, and you suck it up like a hoover.
cult mentality...
and how does the author GET credibility? by a long history of putting out true facts. your bible does not have such credibility. and the myth of divine inspiration has been proven false, so there is not one single author, but hundreds of humans putting out their personal opinions and cultural myths.
You have produced ZERO evidence of lies from the bible, you just quoted some unknown baloney from some hayseed either real or imagined or something you came up with trying to refute scripture which you know very little about.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#87533 Apr 24, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>LOL! That's funny since very little, if any, of your bible can be attributed to anyone in particular.
You can credit your mentor Anton LeVay with his bible right? I read some of it just for curosity sake his satanic bible. It is obvious he wore a hat that was too tight on his head.I bet you would take what he wrote down as "the gospel" and it should be believed and accepted without queston.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87534 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>The bible is in harmony, it was written over a period of approximately 1400 years by about 40 writers from different backgrounds. No man made literature over the same time period and by different authors would have total agreement as the inspired writers had.
It's easy for a book to have "harmony" if it was compiled LONG AFTER THE BOOKS WERE WRITTEN.

Many scriptures about Jesus and Christianity were LEFT OUT because they did not fit the prevailing orthodoxy of the time.

And yet still your Bible contradicts itself in many places.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Mark and John have Jesus dying on completely different DAYS. That's not "harmonious," is it?

Also, Mark says Jesus did the "Cleansing of the Temple" at the END of a one-year ministry.

John says Jesus Cleansed the temple at the BEGINNING of a 3-year ministry.

Which is correct?

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#87535 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You did quite a bit of work to twist what I said. Just because something is written does not make it true or false, one must consider the source from where the information comes from. Truth is truth whether agress with it or accepts it.
no work at all, just simple logic.

How can you 'consider the source' of the bible as 'reliable', when the 'source' is merely a claim of divine inspiration with nothing but the book to support it?
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#87536 Apr 24, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
It's easy for a book to have "harmony" if it was compiled LONG AFTER THE BOOKS WERE WRITTEN.
Many scriptures about Jesus and Christianity were LEFT OUT because they did not fit the prevailing orthodoxy of the time.
And yet still your Bible contradicts itself in many places.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Mark and John have Jesus dying on completely different DAYS. That's not "harmonious," is it?
Also, Mark says Jesus did the "Cleansing of the Temple" at the END of a one-year ministry.
John says Jesus Cleansed the temple at the BEGINNING of a 3-year ministry.
Which is correct?
Jesus cleansed the temple on his first visit there after his ministry began. Show me the passages which contradict the time it was done.Also show me where Mark and John having him dying on different days.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#87537 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You have produced ZERO evidence of lies from the bible, you just quoted some unknown baloney from some hayseed either real or imagined or something you came up with trying to refute scripture which you know very little about.
no, not true at all. i have never quoted anyone or anything but the bible itself. i have, in fact. shown the proven lies. there was no flood as your bible stated. the moon was not created at teh same time as the sun. the earth and all its plants were not created before the sun. there was, in fact, rain before the noachian flood. your jesus savior myth is just re-hashed myths from previous religious cults. so many more...

again, you come with the open lies about what i said and who i quoted...why do you have to lie so much in an attempt to support your proven false bible?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#87538 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You have produced ZERO evidence of lies from the bible, you just quoted some unknown baloney from some hayseed either real or imagined or something you came up with trying to refute scripture which you know very little about.
then of course, there are all the examples where the concept of divine inspiration in interpreting the bible has been proven to not be there...

your cult lied to you...again...
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87539 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus cleansed the temple on his first visit there after his ministry began. Show me the passages which contradict the time it was done.Also show me where Mark and John having him dying on different days.
From Bart Ehrman's "Jesus, Interrupted" pages 25-27

Jesus and his disciples have made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the Passover feast. In Mark 14:12, the disciples ask Jesus where they are to prepare the Passover meal for that evening. In other words, this is on the Day of Preparation for Passover. Jesus gives them instructions. They make the preparations, and when it is evening-the beginning of Passover day-they have the meal. It is a special meal indeed. Jesus takes the symbolic foods of the Passover and imbues them with yet more symbolic meaning. He takes the unleavened bread, breaks it, and says, "This is my body." By implication, his body must be broken for salvation. Then after supper he takes the cup of wine and says, "This is my blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many" (Mark 14:22-25), meaning that his own blood must be shed.

After the disciples eat the Passover meal they go out to the Garden of Gethsemane to pray. Judas Iscariot brings the troops and performs his act of betrayal. Jesus is taken to stand trial before the Jewish authorities. He spends the night in jail, and the next morning he is put on trial before the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, who finds him guilty and condemns him to death by crucifixion. We are told that he is crucified that same day, at nine o'clock in the morning (Mark 15:25). Jesus, then, dies on the day of Passover, the morning after the Passover meal was eaten.

In the Gospel of John, Jesus goes to Jerusalem in the last week of his life to celebrate the Passover feast, and here, too, there is a last meal, a betrayal, a trial before Pilate, and the crucifixion. But it is striking that in John, at the beginning of the account, in contrast to Mark, the disciples do not ask Jesus where they are "to prepare the Passover." Consequently, he gives them no instructions for preparing the meal. They do eat a final supper together.

After the meal they go out. Jesus is betrayed by Judas, appears before the Jewish authorities, spends the night in jail, and is put on trial before Pontius Pilate, who finds him guilty and condemns him to be crucified. And we are told exactly when Pilate pronounces the sentence: "It was the Day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon" (John 19:14).

Noon? On the Day of Preparation for the Passover? The day the lambs were slaughtered? How can that be? In Mark's Gospel, Jesus lived through that day, had his disciples prepare the Passover meal, and ate it with them before being arrested, taken to jail for the night, tried the next morning, and executed at 9 A.M. on the Passover day. But not in John. In John, Jesus dies a day earlier, on the Day of reparation for the Passover, sometime after noon.

And so the contradiction stands: in Mark, Jesus eats the Passover meal (Thursday night) and is crucified the following morning. In John, Jesus does not eat the Passover meal but is crucified on the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.4 Moreover, in Mark, Jesus is nailed to the cross at nine in the morning; in John, he is not condemned until noon, and then he is taken out and crucified.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87540 Apr 24, 2013
Also:

Anyone with even passing knowledge of Bible history and criticism knows that the gospels differ on the day of Jesus' death and that this has LONG been known as a "problem" for the Protestant fundamentalist idea of an inerrant "Word of God" Bible.

=======

The great Catholic Bible Scholar Raymond Brown was explicit in his belief that Jesus was led of to be crucified at the "very hour" the Passover lambs were being offered in the Temple.

Brown has been described as “the premier Johannine scholar in the English-speaking world”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_E._Brown

==========

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...

The Gospel of John

L. Michael White, Professor of Classics and Director of the Religious Studies Program University of Texas at Austin

Excerpts...

John's gospel is different from the other three in the New Testament. That fact has been recognized since the early church itself. Already by the year 200, John's gospel was called the spiritual gospel precisely because it told the story of Jesus in symbolic ways that differ sharply at times from the other three. For example, Jesus dies on a different day in John's gospel than in Matthew, Mark and Luke....

Whereas in the three synoptic gospels Jesus actually eats a passover meal before he dies, in John's gospel he doesn't. The last supper is actually eaten before the beginning of passover. So that the sequence of events leading up to the actual crucifixion are very different for John's gospel. And one has to look at it in say, why is the story so different? How do we account for these differences in terms of the way the story-telling developed? And the answer becomes fairly clear when we realize that Jesus has had the last supper a day before so that he's hanging on the cross during the day of preparation before the beginning of Passover.

End quote
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87541 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus cleansed the temple on his first visit there after his ministry began. Show me the passages which contradict the time it was done.
In each of the synoptic gospels – Matthew, Mark and Luke - the event comes at the end, only days before his arrest. However, John doesn’t say that. He describes a temple cleansing at the beginning of Jesus' ministry shortly after attending the wedding at Cana.(John 2:11-16) The occasions are similar enough to assume they were the same event but different enough to assume someone made a mistake.
FREE SERVANT
#87543 Apr 24, 2013
All humans make mistakes and today in this day and time things are different than they were when the original authors of the Bible wrote their text. If we make mistakes today someone can catch them and point them out to us. If there are any errors it could have been Interpolation by the scribes. There would be several copies between an extant copy and the original one and different sribes may have accidently let in extraneous material at some point such as explanatory notes in margin which found their way into the body of the text by a Consentious scribe.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#87544 Apr 24, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
All humans make mistakes and today in this day and time things are different than they were when the original authors of the Bible wrote their text. If we make mistakes today someone can catch them and point them out to us. If there are any errors it could have been Interpolation by the scribes. There would be several copies between an extant copy and the original one and different sribes may have accidently let in extraneous material at some point such as explanatory notes in margin which found their way into the body of the text by a Consentious scribe.
yes, we have proven that the concept of divine inspiration is false. thanx for hammering the point home.
FREE SERVANT
#87545 Apr 24, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, we have proven that the concept of divine inspiration is false. thanx for hammering the point home.
The hand of God is at work and the Bible is truly his divine will that we should know it.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#87546 Apr 24, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
From Bart Ehrman's "Jesus, Interrupted" pages 25-27
Jesus and his disciples have made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the Passover feast. In Mark 14:12, the disciples ask Jesus where they are to prepare the Passover meal for that evening. In other words, this is on the Day of Preparation for Passover. Jesus gives them instructions. They make the preparations, and when it is evening-the beginning of Passover day-they have the meal. It is a special meal indeed. Jesus takes the symbolic foods of the Passover and imbues them with yet more symbolic meaning. He takes the unleavened bread, breaks it, and says, "This is my body." By implication, his body must be broken for salvation. Then after supper he takes the cup of wine and says, "This is my blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many" (Mark 14:22-25), meaning that his own blood must be shed.
After the disciples eat the Passover meal they go out to the Garden of Gethsemane to pray. Judas Iscariot brings the troops and performs his act of betrayal. Jesus is taken to stand trial before the Jewish authorities. He spends the night in jail, and the next morning he is put on trial before the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, who finds him guilty and condemns him to death by crucifixion. We are told that he is crucified that same day, at nine o'clock in the morning (Mark 15:25). Jesus, then, dies on the day of Passover, the morning after the Passover meal was eaten.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus goes to Jerusalem in the last week of his life to celebrate the Passover feast, and here, too, there is a last meal, a betrayal, a trial before Pilate, and the crucifixion. But it is striking that in John, at the beginning of the account, in contrast to Mark, the disciples do not ask Jesus where they are "to prepare the Passover." Consequently, he gives them no instructions for preparing the meal. They do eat a final supper together.
After the meal they go out. Jesus is betrayed by Judas, appears before the Jewish authorities, spends the night in jail, and is put on trial before Pontius Pilate, who finds him guilty and condemns him to be crucified. And we are told exactly when Pilate pronounces the sentence: "It was the Day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon" (John 19:14).
Noon? On the Day of Preparation for the Passover? The day the lambs were slaughtered? How can that be? In Mark's Gospel, Jesus lived through that day, had his disciples prepare the Passover meal, and ate it with them before being arrested, taken to jail for the night, tried the next morning, and executed at 9 A.M. on the Passover day. But not in John. In John, Jesus dies a day earlier, on the Day of reparation for the Passover, sometime after noon.
And so the contradiction stands: in Mark, Jesus eats the Passover meal (Thursday night) and is crucified the following morning. In John, Jesus does not eat the Passover meal but is crucified on the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.4 Moreover, in Mark, Jesus is nailed to the cross at nine in the morning; in John, he is not condemned until noon, and then he is taken out and crucified.
I would take some doing to clerarly explain all this..in a nutshell Christ died on Friday and arose Sunday. The Hebrews had a term "Day-night" where a portion of a day would be called/considered a day..Christ died and was buried on friday-day 1,(according to jewish law a body could not be on cross after dark on that day) day 2 he was in the grave, day 3 that morning he arose. thus he was dead 3 days, even though they were not complete days(days 1 and 3 were partial days) per se by their venacular he was in the tomb 3 days. I have heard that Thursday night him dying argument but take head of the terminolgy of the day.A more thorough explanation would take more time than I have at this time.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87547 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>I would take some doing to clerarly explain all this..in a nutshell Christ died on Friday and arose Sunday. The Hebrews had a term "Day-night" where a portion of a day would be called/considered a day..Christ died and was buried on friday-day 1,(according to jewish law a body could not be on cross after dark on that day) day 2 he was in the grave, day 3 that morning he arose. thus he was dead 3 days, even though they were not complete days(days 1 and 3 were partial days) per se by their venacular he was in the tomb 3 days. I have heard that Thursday night him dying argument but take head of the terminolgy of the day.A more thorough explanation would take more time than I have at this time.
Complete nonsense.

Slowly re-read Ehrman's clear explanation of the contradiction.

One gospel has him dying on the first day of Passover (after eating the Passover meal), the other kills him off on the Day of Preparation for the Passover, when the lambs are slaughtered.

This has been known to be a "problem" in the scriptures for nearly 2000 years, so there is not much you can say will clear THAT up. LOL

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#87548 Apr 24, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The hand of God is at work and the Bible is truly his divine will that we should know it.
yet you just showed that it is not. it is the work of humans.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Republican Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Thousands of people march during rally at Bosto... 9 min Truth Sayer 1 2,182
Election 'Fox News Sunday' to Host Kentucky Senate Debate (Oct '10) 9 min brad 253,372
News Study: 'Obamacare' repeal-only would make 30M u... 13 min RustyS 26
News Los Angeles County officials push back against ... 41 min ronnie 3
News House prohibits $15-an-hour minimum wage 1 hr uComedyGenius 1
News Trump's staff picks disappoint, alarm minority ... 1 hr Frankie Rizzo 259
News Pence after Carrier deal: Trump is 'a champion ... 1 hr WasteWater 23
More from around the web