Tax bills for rich families approach 30-year high

Mar 3, 2013 Full story: The Republic 343

With Washington gridlocked again over whether to raise their taxes, it turns out wealthy families already are paying some of their biggest federal tax bills in decades even as the rest of the population continues to pay at historically low rates.

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“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#242 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a big reason we have an out of control deficit, not just nationally, but locally. Millions of 40 year olds getting a check for 40 years after putting in only 20. Such a deal!
BTW, what did you do in the military?
Actually there is less than 2 million retired military members (1.9 million as of 2011).

But yes, it IS a very good deal IF you're willing to risk your life & health for 20 years.

Btw, the average military retired member died before ever reaching age 65 because of the hazards of military service, but also in part to lifestyle choices (drinking & smoking). Thankfully that is changing as the military now focuses on keeping you as healthy as possible; at least until they send you off to get killed in battle.....

Oh, and the miltary is looking at replacing the current defined pension plan with a 401k style investment. I actually support that, because then you won't have some people staying until 20 years just to ensure they get a retirement check. Currently if you get out at 19 years you get nothing; with the proposed system it would be a graduated amount, but everyone would get something, even if they only serve 4 years.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#243 Mar 5, 2013
Pamela wrote:
<quoted text>There are so few decent places left to live in the U.S. No one from the Bay Area wants to live in the flyover states. I moved to a hillbilly welfare town, I'm in hillbilly hell. All I wanted the whole time is to get back to SF. SF is one of the few places left where people are happy and where people are kind. When the country collapses over the next few years, that is a very good place to be.
When the country collapes, the cities are the LAST place you want to be. Well, we hope YOU stay there and die, but no SANE person would want to be in the cities; they'll become deathtraps.

Please move back to SF and stay there.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#244 Mar 5, 2013
curmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> Back in the sixties the goverment gave me a free vacation in southeast asia. I was drafted & forced to go and kill folks who had done nothing to me. You likely are a loser who couldnt make it in the real world so you became a slave peon to the armed forces. Your a non productive parasite and you know it.
You can think whatever you want; just keep paying your taxes to fund my lifetime retirement & healthcare.
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#245 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, that explains all those high school drop outs raised by inner city welfare moms who now make $100k+ a year.......
Oh wait, you mean that DOESN'T happen except for one in a million?
C'mon now. Who is more likely to make that 6 figure salary? A person born into a wealthy family where mommy & daddy pay for 4 years of college, or the kid who graduated high school and then had to get a job because they couldn't afford college?
Be honest now.....
No one makes someone drop out of school. That alone will practically guarantee lifelong poverty. Social "programs" enable, even create, dependancy on the state.

I came from a middle class home. I took out (modest) college loans-no one paid for my intial schooling- but I went to work at a company that partially reimbursed education for advanced degrees. Anyone who has the smarts can go to college these days, just make sure you study something that will pay back the costs.

BTW, plenty of tradesmen make 6 figures without a day of college.
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#246 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually there is less than 2 million retired military members (1.9 million as of 2011).
But yes, it IS a very good deal IF you're willing to risk your life & health for 20 years.
Btw, the average military retired member died before ever reaching age 65 because of the hazards of military service, but also in part to lifestyle choices (drinking & smoking). Thankfully that is changing as the military now focuses on keeping you as healthy as possible; at least until they send you off to get killed in battle.....
Oh, and the miltary is looking at replacing the current defined pension plan with a 401k style investment. I actually support that, because then you won't have some people staying until 20 years just to ensure they get a retirement check. Currently if you get out at 19 years you get nothing; with the proposed system it would be a graduated amount, but everyone would get something, even if they only serve 4 years.
I wasn't talking solely about military "retirees". Add up all the fed, state, and local "eary retirees" and now you have millions living off the taxpayer. Unsustainable.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#247 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Not everyone lives in a log cabin in the middle of Michigan. Most people who make 200K plus live in very high COL areas of the country.
When I got out of school I was making about $12K ($30K in today's dollars). I used to think, wow, if only I could make $50K , I'd be really comfortable- but not "rich".
Well, it took almost 15 years to get to that income and by then $50K wasn't so much money, with a mortgage,$4000 in real estate taxes, and 2 kids...forget about "accumulating wealth".
That $50K is now more like $125K now. Is that "rich"?
And the majority of people living in the those very same high cost of living cities make WAY LESS THAN $200k.

We can quibble over what's rich all day, but obviously everyone has their own definition.

My point is that it's EASIER to accumulate wealth making $125k than it is making $28k. And the majority of people living in the same city as you make around $30-$50k. Even in NYC the median income is $50k for a dual income household.

Where you live is your choice.

I don't complain about living in Michigan because I CHOOSE to live here.
Don't complain about paying $4000 in real estate taxes when you CHOOSE to live there.

Thats all I'm saying.
Ohwell

Carmel, IN

#248 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
There are numerous sources and I honestly don't remember which one had the 1% figure. Other sites put the figure at 5% or 3%.
Use whichever number makes you happy.
The point is, whether it's 1% or 5%, the overhwelming majority of Americans die in the same income class they were born into.
The poor are born poor, live poor, and die poor.
The wealthy are born wealthy, live wealthy, and die wealthy.
The middle class tends to move up or down the most, but in the end they still die about the same.
There is logic behind the numbers, but if you don't accept the available numbers from whatever source you like, then you're unlikely to accept the logic either.
That may be true if you are living in a socialistic static class society. Many Brits settled in America to escape the rigid social class structure and have an opportunity to move up in the world....and it happened! Women then and even now marry outside of their social class mostly up and sometimes down. Men are beginning to do that too. Many Asian immigrants today leave their socialistic and communist countries to come here- dirt poor, looking for opportunities to rise out of the slum. And guess what? They do because they work hard, don't expect hand outs, value their families, education and financial future.A healthy economy allows this. Hispanics are generally pretty hard working and would rather work ANY job to feed their oversized families rather than sit at home. They will ride their bikes to jobs or carpool in the back of a truck. They will work from sun up to sun down. A healthy economy will have jobs for them. There are other minorities as well as some whites who lack the work ethic and prefer to take handouts and do nothing. It doesn't matter if jobs are plentiful or not- the end result is the same. So yes, dirt poor can and will rise out of the ghetto in America when businesses are healthy enough. In the obama economy, the medium to small business who employ the most are sputtering along. They can't handle the extra burdens from this administration.

Now that we are more socialistic now than at any point in history, it may be much harder to rise up and much easier to drop....which explains why so many in the middle class are falling into poverty due to an imploding economy.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#249 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
And Obama did? That guy has had everything handed to him. Talk about a charmed life...
"Most of the 1% never knew what it was like to be poor".
Nonsense, the vast majority of high earners ate Top Ramen for years, putting themselves through school or building businesses from the ground up. When I started out (I'm more of a 3%er) going out for an ice cream soda was a once a month treat.
BTW, Romney started with nothing but a JD and a job. His parents may have been "well off" but he made himself, like most successful people. We should celebrate people like him, not make them pariahs.
No, they didn't.

You're buying into that whole "American dream, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, anyone can become a millionare" crap.

The overwhelming majority of the 1% were born and raised in a 1% family.

Romney started with nothing?

Sure if you consider growing up in a rich family as the son of the head of American Motors Corp & the Governor of Michingan, never having to worry about having enough to eat or being able to afford proper medical care, going to the rich white Bloomfield Hills school, and then knowing daddy would be sending you the elite Cranbrook prep school & then paying for Stanford, BYU, and Harvard, and buy your first house for you and give you a trust fund of millions........

Oh yeah, Romeny started with nothing and pulled himself up by his bootstraps....(eyes rolling)......

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#250 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
How about we SPEND LESS?
As soon as you can get Congress to spend less, let me know.....

Until then taxes are going up; it's only a question of how much and who has to pay.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#251 Mar 5, 2013
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said anything about wanting to return to that system only that we will. When you can't raise revenues any higher and you can't borrow any more then you have to live on what you have and that is exactly where we are heading. We have not funded our social programs and at some point you have to pay the piper.
We are about 5 percentage points away from our top revenue rates which we reached after ww2 after that you will experience diminishing returns on raising taxes and will not be able to tax your way out of the problem, we have a AA+ rating instead of a AAA credit rating. Once the slide starts it will move quickly it is then that the poor will have voted themselves out of benefits because the money will not be there to pay it. your precious democrats are making no effort to head this off.
According to your logic there is nothing which can be done. The rich will still be rich and the poor & elderly will die a premature death.

Not exactly a strong motivation for the poor to accept less welfare if they're going to die anyways. Might as well take the rich down with them.
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#252 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they didn't.
You're buying into that whole "American dream, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, anyone can become a millionare" crap.
The overwhelming majority of the 1% were born and raised in a 1% family.
Romney started with nothing?
Sure if you consider growing up in a rich family as the son of the head of American Motors Corp & the Governor of Michingan, never having to worry about having enough to eat or being able to afford proper medical care, going to the rich white Bloomfield Hills school, and then knowing daddy would be sending you the elite Cranbrook prep school & then paying for Stanford, BYU, and Harvard, and buy your first house for you and give you a trust fund of millions........
Oh yeah, Romeny started with nothing and pulled himself up by his bootstraps....(eyes rolling)......
"The overwhelming majority of the 1% were born and raised in a 1% family"
Show your source.
We are all accidents of our birth to an extent. If we were born in Ghana we wouldn't be having this 1st World debate. But America is still the land of opportunity, not the land of guarantees. ANYONE with the capapabilities and drive can achieve a modicum of success, regardless of who their parents were.
The biggest reason more people aren't wealthy is because of the government and the social strata certain political factions encourage to be dependant and keep them in office.
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#253 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
As soon as you can get Congress to spend less, let me know.....
As long as people vote themselves other people's wealth by electing Santa Claus that won't happen.
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#254 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
And the majority of people living in the those very same high cost of living cities make WAY LESS THAN $200k.
We can quibble over what's rich all day, but obviously everyone has their own definition.
My point is that it's EASIER to accumulate wealth making $125k than it is making $28k. And the majority of people living in the same city as you make around $30-$50k. Even in NYC the median income is $50k for a dual income household.
Where you live is your choice.
I don't complain about living in Michigan because I CHOOSE to live here.
Don't complain about paying $4000 in real estate taxes when you CHOOSE to live there.
Thats all I'm saying.
Right, everyone has a choice.

Guy A and Guy B grow up in the same middle class town to middle class parents.

So if Guy A decides to hang out in bars on the weekend and still makes $15/hr at age 40, complaining about and blaming the "rich" as he downs Beer #6, and Guy B decides to go to night school and spends all weekend hitting the books, and sucks the farts out of the bosses chair to get a promotion, Guy A has no right to claim that Guy B "owes" him or people like him.

Problem is there are now more Guy A's than Guy B's.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#255 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
How did you accumulate enough in investments on such a low income? I thought the poer couldn't affored to save money since it was all spent on life's necessities?
The military servicemembers aren't poor; that's yet another misconception.

The military actually pays quite well when you consider everything is provided free or nearly free of charge- food, clothing, housing, medical care, education, etc, etc, etc. Depending on your rank, the average midlevel enlisted makes about $75k/yr when benefits are included.

I joined the military with the intention of staying in and retiring at 20 years; it was my plan from the start. I grew up poor and was determined I wouldn't remain poor. My only realistic option was the military. So I put away 75%+ of every paycheck for 20 years. I lived extremely frugally and didn't waste money on cars or partying or the latest fashions or giant stereos etc etc. I got my bachelors degree and only paid 10% of the tuition; a worthy investment on my part. My savings went into savings bonds at first, then converted to mutual funds, and finally individual stocks.

My brother did 6 years and got out without a penny to his name; by that time I hit the 6 year mark I already had 6 figures in the bank.
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#256 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
As soon as you can get Congress to spend less, let me know.....
Until then taxes are going up; it's only a question of how much and who has to pay.
The "sequestering" is supposed to accomplish just that goal, but the Dear Leader and his cackling underlings use that to deride those who argue for reasonable federal spending.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#257 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, it's more between the top 3%-4%.
Google it.

If you really want to quibble whether it's the top 1.5% or 3.5%?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#258 Mar 5, 2013
Ohwell wrote:
<quoted text>Those 'morons' have been paying to educate your stupid brats while you plop down chump change- if any- towards the school district. I didn't realize the county let you put your trailer on a landfill for a few extra bucks....although it does explain why your kids were too stupid to learn anything.
Yeah, as if you know anything about me.......

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#259 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want to have a certain career then you must live where the jobs are. Yes, EVERYONE should retire at 38, move to West Bumnfook,, live on a 10 acre farm and pay no income tax. Yes, we will have a great country then.
Again, the CHOICE is yours.

I don't care if you all move to LA or NYC or Boston or Houston or Chicago. Actually I prefer you people all stay in the cities instead of driving up property values out in rural areas.

But once again, the point is that if you CHOOSE to live in high cost of living areas, the DON'T BITCH ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING.

Do you hear me complaining there isn't an opera house around or a Crate & Barrel or pro-football statium etc?
Say the Truth

Eatontown, NJ

#260 Mar 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Google it.
If you really want to quibble whether it's the top 1.5% or 3.5%?
I don't do research to back up my opponent's assertions. Didn't you have to write term papers in school? It DOES make a difference.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#261 Mar 5, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
No one makes someone drop out of school. That alone will practically guarantee lifelong poverty. Social "programs" enable, even create, dependancy on the state.
I came from a middle class home. I took out (modest) college loans-no one paid for my intial schooling- but I went to work at a company that partially reimbursed education for advanced degrees. Anyone who has the smarts can go to college these days, just make sure you study something that will pay back the costs.
BTW, plenty of tradesmen make 6 figures without a day of college.
Yes, many people make 6 figures without a college education, but who is more LIKELY to?

You can always bring up a couple of exceptions.

Btw, some kids are essentially forced to quit school to help support their family. The simple fact you don't know that is more proof you've never even been close to being poor and certainly don't understand how it is.

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