Prop 8 lawyer's views on gay marriage...

Prop 8 lawyer's views on gay marriage evolving

There are 95 comments on the KTVN Reno story from Apr 17, 2014, titled Prop 8 lawyer's views on gay marriage evolving. In it, KTVN Reno reports that:

By KATHY MATHESON Associated Press Three teens frantically used their cellphones to call for help from a sinking van after their troubled mother drove them into a river, their father said Thursday.

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“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#1 Apr 17, 2014
It's AMAZING how one's view changes regarding the right to marry when one of your children let's ya know who they are and who they are going to marry!!!

Better late than NEVER Charles Cooper:-)

lides

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#2 Apr 17, 2014
Funny how one's views change when the topic actually hits home.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#3 Apr 17, 2014
Too bad the Roman Catholic Church, Baptists, Muslims and others are not "evolving" on the issue of marriage equality and equality for EVERYONE instead of maintaining their position of "WE KNOW WE'RE WRONG AND STUPID, BUT THAT'S OUR TRADITION AND TRADITION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN OUR LIVES NO MATTER HOW STUPID IT IS !"
Christsharia Law

Philadelphia, PA

#4 Apr 17, 2014
I see no reason to let that bigoted cretin and now shocking hypocrite, even by Republican standards, off the hook.
david traversa

Cordoba, Argentina

#5 Apr 17, 2014
I'm glad he's evolved but .. did he have to wait it touched him personally to get his brain in working order ? Ignorance is rampant amongst the professionals one, many times, will trust with one's life and happiness ..

“A long time ago”

Since: Nov 09

in a galaxy far, far away....

#6 Apr 17, 2014
Christsharia Law wrote:
I see no reason to let that bigoted cretin and now shocking hypocrite, even by Republican standards, off the hook.
I know the temptation to hold their hypocrisy in their faces is great, but we have to take victories where we can. This is the best we can really hope for from these oppositionists, that they will eventually realize the personal toll these laws take. But people can change, and we should show that we can be accepting when they do. Hopefully, they will now be a voice for change within their ranks, as they will now be better equipped (than even we are) for knowing the right things to say to change Republican minds.
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#7 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
I know the temptation to hold their hypocrisy in their faces is great, but we have to take victories where we can. This is the best we can really hope for from these oppositionists, that they will eventually realize the personal toll these laws take. But people can change, and we should show that we can be accepting when they do. Hopefully, they will now be a voice for change within their ranks, as they will now be better equipped (than even we are) for knowing the right things to say to change Republican minds.
I accept your viewpoint as a sensible one, but will probably NEVER be able to like it. Here's why.

LOGIC.

*drumroll*

LOGIC dictates -- if this guy was so opposed that his livelihood was made of opposing gay marriage, and he proceeded *thereafter* to change his mind because of a family member -- that anyone else opposed *this nanosecond* is opposed but for the grace of wisdom as delivered UNTO THEM through a family member.

(I realize this doesn't explain the unfit parents who kick their children out of the house for this.)

What I think people find so frustrating is that wisdom is all around us, yet we're all blind to it, so to speak: We all *see* these things happening but only when it happens *to us* do we begin to "evolve," or whatever one might call it.

So it's difficult to accept. By pure logic, he could've done this five years ago. Saying he couldn't, saying we're limited by experience, means YOU AND I and anyone like us is a bit suspect to argue to the antigay *NOW*, when we ostensibly have the wisdom to see that they "can't" change, with or without quotation marks on can't, take your pick.

But we (humanity) DON'T do that. At the same time that we allow this to pass, we *don't* show compassion for those who don't get it. This is all academic, however: I am agreeing, as I said at the outset, with your wisdom, and merely pointing this out to anyone who ends up reading it.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#8 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
I know the temptation to hold their hypocrisy in their faces is great, but we have to take victories where we can. This is the best we can really hope for from these oppositionists, that they will eventually realize the personal toll these laws take. But people can change, and we should show that we can be accepting when they do. Hopefully, they will now be a voice for change within their ranks, as they will now be better equipped (than even we are) for knowing the right things to say to change Republican minds.
Agreed. If we can't forgive and move on we are almost as bad as they were before seeing the light. We have too many issues to attend to rather than be dragged down to the level of our opponents. Although, I would expect that they use the same wherewithal that they once used against us to now advocate for us. There is no place for fence-sitting for them on these issues.

“A long time ago”

Since: Nov 09

in a galaxy far, far away....

#9 Apr 17, 2014
hi hi wrote:
I accept your viewpoint as a sensible one, but will probably NEVER be able to like it. Here's why.
LOGIC.
*drumroll*
LOGIC dictates -- if this guy was so opposed that his livelihood was made of opposing gay marriage, and he proceeded *thereafter* to change his mind because of a family member -- that anyone else opposed *this nanosecond* is opposed but for the grace of wisdom as delivered UNTO THEM through a family member.
(I realize this doesn't explain the unfit parents who kick their children out of the house for this.)
What I think people find so frustrating is that wisdom is all around us, yet we're all blind to it, so to speak: We all *see* these things happening but only when it happens *to us* do we begin to "evolve," or whatever one might call it.
So it's difficult to accept. By pure logic, he could've done this five years ago. Saying he couldn't, saying we're limited by experience, means YOU AND I and anyone like us is a bit suspect to argue to the antigay *NOW*, when we ostensibly have the wisdom to see that they "can't" change, with or without quotation marks on can't, take your pick.
But we (humanity) DON'T do that. At the same time that we allow this to pass, we *don't* show compassion for those who don't get it. This is all academic, however: I am agreeing, as I said at the outset, with your wisdom, and merely pointing this out to anyone who ends up reading it.
I agree, I don't really like it either. But we can't make any progress if we have a reputation for vilifying those who come to our side.

Logic may dictate what you say, but logic rarely drives those who oppose equal rights for citizens that are not members of their in-group. Be glad they found logic AT ALL, even belatedly.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#10 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, I don't really like it either. But we can't make any progress if we have a reputation for vilifying those who come to our side.
Logic may dictate what you say, but logic rarely drives those who oppose equal rights for citizens that are not members of their in-group. Be glad they found logic AT ALL, even belatedly.
And when will the Democrats do so ?

“A long time ago”

Since: Nov 09

in a galaxy far, far away....

#11 Apr 17, 2014
Fa-Foxy wrote:
And when will the Democrats do so ?
Everyone has their faults, but you'd have to be more specific. Different issues are defensible (or not) in different ways.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#12 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone has their faults, but you'd have to be more specific. Different issues are defensible (or not) in different ways.
Democrats never use logic. They simply cannot understand that sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.

“A long time ago”

Since: Nov 09

in a galaxy far, far away....

#13 Apr 17, 2014
Fa-Foxy wrote:
Democrats never use logic.
Well, congratulations. Consider yourself one of those people who hold absolutist views about people from outside your in-group.
Fa-Foxy wrote:
They simply cannot understand that sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.
That's a ridiculous over-simplification of both Democrats and of the reality of the situation. You aren't going to make a point about logic by tossing it out the window.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#14 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, congratulations. Consider yourself one of those people who hold absolutist views about people from outside your in-group.
<quoted text>
That's a ridiculous over-simplification of both Democrats and of the reality of the situation. You aren't going to make a point about logic by tossing it out the window.
The only thing I'd like to toss out the window are the Democrats, liberals, socialists, and their cohorts and minion in Congress, and their assorted fellow travelers and hangers-on.(as well a a sic-pack of too-old Coors).

And remember that extremism in defense of Liberty is no vice and moderation in pursuit of Justice is no virtue.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#15 Apr 17, 2014
WASHINGTON (AP)- The lawyer who argued before the Supreme Court in favor of upholding California's ban on gay marriage learned while he was handling the case that one of his children is gay and now is helping her plan her wedding with another woman.

Attorney Charles Cooper says his view of same-sex marriage is evolving after having argued in court that gay unions could undermine marriages between a man and a woman

... How very interesting.

lides

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#16 Apr 17, 2014
Fa-Foxy wrote:
Democrats never use logic. They simply cannot understand that sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.
If this statement were true, would that make you a Democrat. You are certainly not currently using logic, instead you are making a baseless and sweeping generalization with no basis in fact.

Do you know who really doesn't ever use logic? Stupid people.

“A long time ago”

Since: Nov 09

in a galaxy far, far away....

#17 Apr 17, 2014
Fa-Foxy wrote:
The only thing I'd like to toss out the window are the Democrats, liberals, socialists, and their cohorts and minion in Congress, and their assorted fellow travelers and hangers-on.(as well a a sic-pack of too-old Coors).
Good luck finding ANOTHER group willing to fight for gay rights. I hope the Republicans are good to you. If you're a millionaire, you should have nothing to worry about.
Fa-Foxy wrote:
And remember that extremism in defense of Liberty is no vice and moderation in pursuit of Justice is no virtue.
I'll remember that Barry Goldwater said this while accepting the Republican nomination for his (failed) presidential bid, but just because he said it doesn't make it true.

There are times when extremism works. There are times when it is indeed inappropriate. I would consider "war" to be an extremist defense of liberty, but Republicans don't seem to be against it. I consider compromise to be a virtuous form of moderation, which has its occasional uses. The Goldwater quote is a clever phrase, which I'm sure garnered many hoots and hollers from the GOP in attendance. But it's still a form of absolutism. There are many things in the world which are sometimes good, sometimes bad. There's no wisdom in attempting to label it all as 100% good or 100% bad, without recognition of grey areas.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#18 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Good luck finding ANOTHER group willing to fight for gay rights. I hope the Republicans are good to you. If you're a millionaire, you should have nothing to worry about.
<quoted text>
I'll remember that Barry Goldwater said this while accepting the Republican nomination for his (failed) presidential bid, but just because he said it doesn't make it true.
There are times when extremism works. There are times when it is indeed inappropriate. I would consider "war" to be an extremist defense of liberty, but Republicans don't seem to be against it. I consider compromise to be a virtuous form of moderation, which has its occasional uses. The Goldwater quote is a clever phrase, which I'm sure garnered many hoots and hollers from the GOP in attendance. But it's still a form of absolutism. There are many things in the world which are sometimes good, sometimes bad. There's no wisdom in attempting to label it all as 100% good or 100% bad, without recognition of grey areas.
George Washington, John Hancock, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and James Monroe were all EXTREMISTS. THANK GOD THEY WERE !
1 post removed
Abe

Minnetonka, MN

#20 Apr 17, 2014
I don't worry about that. I know none of my kids will ever turn gay because my wife and I raised them right.

“A long time ago”

Since: Nov 09

in a galaxy far, far away....

#21 Apr 17, 2014
Abe wrote:
I don't worry about that. I know none of my kids will ever turn gay because my wife and I raised them right.
Famous last words....

Your kids will never "turn" gay because people don't "turn" gay. Their bodies tell them if they're gay or straight at puberty. It doesn't matter how you raise them, they'll be what they'll be.

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