What the 2012 election taught us

Nov 6, 2012 Full story: The Washington Post 10,324

We've been scouring the data for clues as to what we should learn from what happened tonight as President Obama relatively easily claimed a second term.

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Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#3502 Nov 27, 2012
hahahahahaha wrote:
<quoted text>Why don't you provide some facts on this matter and then we can discuss it?
Romney didn't want to give money to GM and he lost the election because people wanted the bail out.
Republicans never wanted social security, medicaid, medicare but dems did and imposed it on America.
There have been corporate bailouts with the present and past administrations but this is not Republican, it's liberal elite.
Republicans want to decentralize govt. in order to preserve indiv. freedom and dems want control and and want to contain indiv. freedom.
just look at all the people on welfare, not all democrats. look at all the people getting subsidies many republicans. many big businesses.

your idea that only democrats bolster the gimmee mentality is just not supported by the facts.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#3503 Nov 27, 2012
okb2 wrote:
<quoted text>
If no one paid it, is should be fine to do it again. We can use a $2,000,000 income this time. Fact ARE Fun!
Seriously:
Eliminate SS and Medicare taxes. Replace with a ~7% income tax on all income (including capital gains) before deductions.
Set 4 income tax rates.
Set the bottom rate as what it needs to be. Remember, they pay a minimum of 7% regardless.
The next three rates are all set the same way. What ever the next to the lowest rate is, it has an AMT. No one in the second group can pay less than the average rate paid in the first group.
The third rate is set and and no one can pay less than half the average paid by the second group.
Same with the highest group.
ALL income is taxed the same regardless of source EXCEPT Capital Gains that contributed directly to job creation. Jobs must remain for over 2 years before the lower rate can be taken. The Capital Gains rate is 50% of your what you actually paid in income tax.
how do you tell if jobs were created by invenstments. not all investments are that clear cut.

the real world is fun!

If you decrease the incentive for people to risk the money they already paid full taxes on, they will decrease their investment in our economy.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#3504 Nov 27, 2012
Don Joe wrote:
<quoted text>
I see. You are saying if you work hard, get a great education, work smart, and if you get enough food and you get shelter, with the threat of it going away at any time, that is success.
We have different definitions. I would argue that receiving a tiny portion of what you earn is not success. If you earn a billion dollars for your company and you get less in a year than the daily interest earned on that billion dollars, that is not success. If you have no opportunity to start your own company that is not success. If your only opportunity is to apply to hundreds of companies in the hope that one will hire you, you don't have much opportunity.
My company won a National Science Foundation grant a few years back. It was $50,000. We had to go to Washington DC for training about how to use the money.(3 people in Washington for 3 days took much of the money just for training.) There were about 200 companies who attended the training and each has its technology thoroughly vetted by the scientific community. In each session, the question arose that the $50,000 wasn't enough to commercialize the innovation. Where can we obtain enough money to get into the market place. The question came up so often, the trainers decided to add an additional session to address that issue. The top answer on how to fund any start up was..... Friends and Family. If you have rich friends and family, let them give you the money, if not, you are out of luck. Venture capitalists will invest only if they are guaranteed almost all of the profit. Banks won't invest without massive amounts of collateral and they don't consider intellectual property to be collateral because they don't know how to sell it.
In the US there is still great innovation, most of it dying on the vine due to lack of proper investment.
Oh, and working hard 7 days a week, for food and shelter is what the slaves got, but nothing more. That is not success.
No, i never said anything remotely similar to your first paragraph. why would you infer i did?

perhaps you need a better marketing dept to show that your intellectual capital is viable for making profit. lots of intellectual capital is not viable for making prosfit. perhaps thhat is also your problem...
hahahahahaha

Carmel, IN

#3505 Nov 27, 2012
okb2 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what they like to sell to the rest of us, but
America was built on self-sacrifice for the common good. The founding fathers and the revolutionary Soldiers were willing to SACRIFICE themselves and everything they owned so that the rest could have opportunity.
The Civil War Soldiers SACRIFICED for what they believed in.
The same with WW I.
With WW II there was SACRIFICE again with everything on the line. Losing meant getting split up between Japan and Germany.
But as we have seen in Vietnam, Granada, the First Gulf War and these current wars, the "leaders" that are valued by the Republicans can't bring themselves to SACRIFICE like George Washington and certainly not Nathan Hale, they are just too important for things like that.
Republicans believe that instead of sacrificing for one's country, it is much better that the rest of the country sacrifice for Republicans.
Oh my, you are really naive. No doubt you would stand up and make the sacrifice for your country and give half of your money to charity. Sure you would. You just expect the other guy to do it. I'm sure you would gladly send your son to the battlefield to fight the Taliban since you are such a patriot. Yea sure.

In the early days, colonists tried to survive in communes but this socialist concept didn't work and folks starved to death. Few people did the most work and others did nothing. They soon realized if they gave each had their own plot of land, they would be responsible for themselves and their own families and thus began the American dream and the foundation on which our country was made. Your analogy was a big fail. Democrats were the anti war activists who ran to Canada. They started this trend.

And since you are so interested in self sacrifice, why do you think that piglet Moochelle and her fatso kids were given a free pass to waste taxpayer money and our precious natural resources jetisoning all around the world when they could have done without a few vacations in the interest of being patriotic and self sacrificing? Why do you think oscumma felt the need to play more than he worked especially when our country was in crisis during the terrorist attack on our embassy?

Democrats are liberal commie socialists who hate those who have worked harder. They feel entitled to their money and they have stolen from them for decades.

Since: Jul 12

Chester, VA

#3506 Nov 27, 2012
hahahahahaha wrote:
<quoted text>Typical class envy speak. If you are talking about using deductions 'Clinton' style those have been eliminated. Using a lot of deductions? Don't you think people would use whatever they could? Are you suggesting they make some up?
It shouldn't be your business or mine to dictate how people spend the money they have earned. Certainly, their consumption is good for the economy and you want them to stop so they can afford to pay increased govt taxes? Well, that's is exactly why these taxes are not a good thing for the economy.
Increase taxes and force people into foreclosure.....now that will make for a healthy economy!
Repossess their BMW because increased taxes and a declining economy will now make it difficult for them to make their payments. The only difference I see between the person foreclosing and losing their car is how much they are worth. A $50,000 house vs a $500,000 house.....a $13,000 car vs an $80,000 car. Class envy at it's finest. It's all about the have nots expecting to dip into the haves pockets. It's all about stealing from those who have worked hard and made more than the guy who hasn't made that kind of money. It's all about kicking the successful in the nuts so the sloths can take it away. It's all about jealousy and ignorance among the have nots.
First, get us some hard statistics on your sob stories. I have already said that a lot of this stuff happens, it is a question of how often it happens.

They still have plenty of deductions, I use some of them every year. You asked how someone making $250K could save $100K after taxes. I told you. Now using your argument above it is apparent that you don't think Bill Gates could save $100K. It has nothing to do with class envy. What is more likely is for some reason you see people envious of what I have so they want even more because they are jealous. That is your argument isn't it?

After all, what other reason could have to ask me "how" somene can do something and then when I tell you, you attack me personally? Why the personal attack if you are not jealous?

Since: Jul 12

Chester, VA

#3507 Nov 27, 2012
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how do you tell if jobs were created by invenstments. not all investments are that clear cut.
the real world is fun!
If you decrease the incentive for people to risk the money they already paid full taxes on, they will decrease their investment in our economy.
If you give money to a start up that expands - you created jobs.
If you buy stock on an IPO and the company used the money to expand and hire people - you created jobs.

If you buy stock and it is not an IPO, you ain't done nothing because the company did not get a dollar of your money. Someone else did.

Amazon is selling bonds to build warehouses and expand.

Genworth is selling bonds to pay off other bonds that are coming due.

Can you tell the difference?

Since: Jul 12

Chester, VA

#3508 Nov 27, 2012
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how do you tell if jobs were created by invenstments. not all investments are that clear cut.
the real world is fun!
If you decrease the incentive for people to risk the money they already paid full taxes on, they will decrease their investment in our economy.
Actually you are incorrect, at least to a certain point.

If we increase the capital gains tax it will make stock worth less and it will depress the price. But people will still buy the stock. Reagan increased the Capital Gains Tax to 28%, want to see what happened?(Created about 19,000,000 jobs)

Clinton also increased the Capital Gains rate, want to see what happened?(Created over 22,000,000 jobs)

Bush the father cut the capital gains rate, what to see what happened?

bush the son cut rates on taxes overall and created 3,000,000 jobs of which 2,000,000 were government jobs.

NOTE: Only using Presidents to fix a time period.

Facts and History ARE Fun!
lol

Farmington, MO

#3509 Nov 27, 2012
hahahahahaha wrote:
<quoted text>Your ignorance astounds me because you have little understanding of who makes $250,000 and above. Your class envy is ugly and shows how little you know. This amount is only a typicial upper middle class wage of dual income earners, business owners, doctors, attorneys, CPAs, managers, school superintendents, investors, chemists, biologists, inventors, college department heads, etc. If you live in a big city or on either coast, this amount isn't even close to being 'rich'. Obviously, you don't make much and are angry about it to the point you feel you have the right to steal it from them via taxes and govt interference.
Oh, I thought they were all the "job creators" the GOP was worried about? The typical examples you point out don't seem to be job creators at all? Small business owners are a negligible percent, and if they reinvest in their businesses, they reduce their taxes anyway.

A couple additional percent tax to those like myself, won't affect anything in my, or their life. Unless they already choose to live beyond their means, which they
do have a propensity for, just like the mooches in the country. It certainly won't cause a business to succeed or fail.

Funny thing is, history shows higher taxes encourage growth more than lower taxes, when it comes to business reinvestment.

But that's not your high school Econ class, so a little beyond most people.

Since: Jul 12

Chester, VA

#3510 Nov 27, 2012
hahahahahaha wrote:
<quoted text>Oh my, you are really naive. No doubt you would stand up and make the sacrifice for your country and give half of your money to charity. Sure you would. You just expect the other guy to do it. I'm sure you would gladly send your son to the battlefield to fight the Taliban since you are such a patriot. Yea sure.
In the early days, colonists tried to survive in communes but this socialist concept didn't work and folks starved to death. Few people did the most work and others did nothing. They soon realized if they gave each had their own plot of land, they would be responsible for themselves and their own families and thus began the American dream and the foundation on which our country was made. Your analogy was a big fail. Democrats were the anti war activists who ran to Canada. They started this trend.
And since you are so interested in self sacrifice, why do you think that piglet Moochelle and her fatso kids were given a free pass to waste taxpayer money and our precious natural resources jetisoning all around the world when they could have done without a few vacations in the interest of being patriotic and self sacrificing? Why do you think oscumma felt the need to play more than he worked especially when our country was in crisis during the terrorist attack on our embassy?
Democrats are liberal commie socialists who hate those who have worked harder. They feel entitled to their money and they have stolen from them for decades.
20 year US Army Veteran. Where were you? And note which side we are argueing for.

I was in Iraq and Kuwait in 2003 - 2004. Where were you?

Know anyone that was at Camp Virginia, Udari, Breach Point West, Cedar, New Cedar, Anaconda, Billad, Arifjan or Doha?

Where were you?

The World's Greatest Generation who lived through the Depression and fought in WW II gave us the Fairness Doctrine, Medicare, Medicaid, Affirmative Action, Civil Rights and many other things.

Where were you?

Since: Jul 12

Chester, VA

#3511 Nov 27, 2012
hahahahahaha wrote:
<quoted text>Oh my, you are really naive. No doubt you would stand up and make the sacrifice for your country and give half of your money to charity. Sure you would. You just expect the other guy to do it. I'm sure you would gladly send your son to the battlefield to fight the Taliban since you are such a patriot. Yea sure.
In the early days, colonists tried to survive in communes but this socialist concept didn't work and folks starved to death. Few people did the most work and others did nothing. They soon realized if they gave each had their own plot of land, they would be responsible for themselves and their own families and thus began the American dream and the foundation on which our country was made. Your analogy was a big fail. Democrats were the anti war activists who ran to Canada. They started this trend.
And since you are so interested in self sacrifice, why do you think that piglet Moochelle and her fatso kids were given a free pass to waste taxpayer money and our precious natural resources jetisoning all around the world when they could have done without a few vacations in the interest of being patriotic and self sacrificing? Why do you think oscumma felt the need to play more than he worked especially when our country was in crisis during the terrorist attack on our embassy?
Democrats are liberal commie socialists who hate those who have worked harder. They feel entitled to their money and they have stolen from them for decades.
BTW: I am printing off your little rant and the next time I go to a meeting of the 503rd Regimental Combat Team (Airborne) I will show it to them as a momento of what Republicans think about them.

They are the group that retook Corregidor doing a combat jump. The first night they had about 700 Soldiers on the gound and there were 7000 Japanese.

Where were you?

I was not there, but my father was.

Keep putting down people you know nothing about. It is the Republican way.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#3512 Nov 27, 2012
okb2 wrote:
<quoted text>
First, we don't have 30,000,000 illegal aliens. Second, most people on public assistance work. It is low wages that keep them drawing money. In most states a single, able bodied adult is ineligable for public assistance under any circumstances except unemployment.
You might find one or two that are doing what you claim. I can find more Repoublicans claiming it is the reality than it is the exception. Governor Mike Huckabee Sunday before last said you were wrong and did not have a grasp of the real problem.
"Displaced Foreign Traveler" estimates are anywhere from 10-15 million, or the combined populations of NY and LA, or NY and Chicago, or, well, you get the picture.

If you raise the minimum wage, less people will be hired and the cost of everything else rises.

No matter what you and others claim, it's blatantly obvious that a government handout is the preferable choice to finding and working a second job.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#3513 Nov 27, 2012
okb2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you are incorrect, at least to a certain point.
If we increase the capital gains tax it will make stock worth less and it will depress the price. But people will still buy the stock. Reagan increased the Capital Gains Tax to 28%, want to see what happened?(Created about 19,000,000 jobs)
Clinton also increased the Capital Gains rate, want to see what happened?(Created over 22,000,000 jobs)
Bush the father cut the capital gains rate, what to see what happened?
bush the son cut rates on taxes overall and created 3,000,000 jobs of which 2,000,000 were government jobs.
NOTE: Only using Presidents to fix a time period.
Facts and History ARE Fun!
it was the up markets at the time that created those jobs. the risk was low.

facts are fun!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#3514 Nov 27, 2012
okb2 wrote:
<quoted text>

The World's Greatest Generation who lived through the Depression and fought in WW II gave us the Fairness Doctrine
WWII veterans gave us the Fairness Doctrine?

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#3515 Nov 27, 2012
okb2 wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW: I am printing off your little rant and the next time I go to a meeting of the 503rd Regimental Combat Team (Airborne) I will show it to them as a momento of what Republicans think about them.
They are the group that retook Corregidor doing a combat jump. The first night they had about 700 Soldiers on the gound and there were 7000 Japanese.
Where were you?
I was not there, but my father was.
Keep putting down people you know nothing about. It is the Republican way.
You just took what one anonymous person said and put it on 55 million Americans, many of whom are/were in the Armed Services, and have fought and died (or will in the future) for you to make these stupid generalizations.

Is that the democrat way or just the dumb democrat way?

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#3516 Nov 27, 2012
Billy Ringo wrote:
<quoted text>
Dems picked up a bunch of House seats and 2 more Senate seats this time. In 2 years time, they will pick up some additional House seats.
If the Rethugs beome a little more flexible now, as appers likely, it is because they are scared shytless of losing their seat in 23 months.
Cons believed they had this election locked up, that they would win back the WH and the Senate.
Then Obama kicked their azzes.
Another report from the weatherman with a cracked crystal ball.
1 post removed
conservative crapola

Reading, PA

#3518 Nov 27, 2012
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>
lejimcrow cry-a-thon: Let week 4 begin.

hahahahahahahaha
1 post removed

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#3520 Nov 27, 2012
I have come to the conclusion that politics is too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.

~Charles de Gaulle

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#3521 Nov 27, 2012
au contraire wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that politics is too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.
~Charles de Gaulle
Quoting socialists now?
1 post removed
hahahahahaha

Carmel, IN

#3523 Nov 27, 2012
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>just look at all the people on welfare, not all democrats. look at all the people getting subsidies many republicans. many big businesses.
your idea that only democrats bolster the gimmee mentality is just not supported by the facts.
The welfare program was started by a democrat which is now about 17% of federal spending. This program is overwhelmingly supported by democrats. Republicans have historically attempted to reduce this spending by working on programs that would allow for more independence rather than reliance on the govt. Subsidies exist equally under both parties. Romney didn't want to waste taxpayer money by giving our money to GM, for example, but oscumma did. Apparently, the freeloading liberal elites want govt. intervention in their mega corps as well. Lib elites want to grow the underclass in order to maintain their power which is why they want government dependence rather than independence. Republicans want people to be free and Demoncrats want their voting base beholden to the govt. and their supreme power. I'm afraid you are too naive to understand what is really going on.
hahahahahaha

Carmel, IN

#3524 Nov 27, 2012
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>it was the up markets at the time that created those jobs. the risk was low.
facts are fun!
Hmmmm, when the government intervenes and interfers to the extent the oscumma admin has, you won't have 'up markets' and low risk. Imposing socialistic programs and a hostile business climate, you're not going to see anything going up except unemployment, crime and poverty. It's been four years and the only thing that has grown is the deficit.

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