Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

Jan 7, 2013 Full story: NBC Chicago 17,562

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Full Story
Poof

Madison, WI

#17293 Feb 25, 2014
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Or maybe not.
<quoted text>
If so, why is the Brown family allowed their own reality television program? Please explain the harm and/or contradiction in that.
As the wives admitted on the last episode -- many sister wives like to banish from their brains, the fact that their husband is having sex and full intimate relationships with his other wives, but that becomes unpleasantly difficult when a sister wife becomes pregnant.

Now, Robyn is pregnant and the other wives clearly got the creeps when they had to see her bed. The tours were for a part of the show in which Kody announces that the family has enough money for each wife to buy furniture for one room in each of their new houses.

How this unemployed family of one husband, four wives, and soon-to-be seventeen kids affords ANY new furniture for their four Las Vegas houses, I don't know , but the shopping expedition gave the wives more chances to diss Robyn. Janelle particularly gets her digs in at Robyn, pointing out that she, Janelle, is more like a man, like Kody in fact, when she shops -- she likes to just get in and get the job done. She's not indecisive.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bonnie-fuller/t...

How polygamy affects your wallet

You may or may not agree with polygamist Warren Jeffs' lifestyle, and you may or may not think he is indeed the dangerous criminal the FBI says he is, but would you believe Jeffs and his followers are costing you money?

"Their religious belief is that they'll bleed the beast, meaning the government," said Mark Shurtleff, Utah's attorney general. "They hate the government, so they'll bleed it for everything they can through welfare, tax evasion and fraud."

It makes some sense. Polygamists have multiple wives and dozens of children, but the state only recognizes one marriage. That leaves the rest of the wives to claim themselves as single moms with armies of children to support. Doing that means they can apply for welfare, which they do. And it's all legal.

"More than 65 percent of the people are on welfare ... compared with 6 percent of the people of the general population," Shurtleff said.

Shurtleff hasn't filed charges against Jeffs or his organization, but he's investigating Jeffs for "cooking the books," avoiding taxes, and even setting up offshore accounts.

One thing we do know is that Jeffs and his followers have not been paying their fair share of property taxes.

A judge appointed accountant Bruce Wisan to take control of the group's $110 million trust. Wisan's biggest challenge: Collecting more than $1 million in overdue property taxes from polygamist property owners living in Colorado City, Arizona, where Jeffs' church is based.

"They've received benefits of living on trust land for free," Wisan said. "They didn't pay for the land. In many cases it was community efforts that built the house. So all they have to pay are utilities and property taxes and I don't think that's unreasonable
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.coop...

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#17294 Feb 25, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
No one was discriminated against because they're gay; the baker didn't want to service a same sex wedding ceremony.
Brian, you do realize that you sound like an imbecile when you make a claim and negate it within the course of a single sentence, right? They were, absolutely, denied service on the basis of sexual orientation, which was against the law in that state.
Brian_G wrote:
The baker served and employed gays in the past, there' s no evidence of discrimination against gays.
Feel free to prove as much. I know you cannot.
Brian_G wrote:
Forcing someone to celebrate same sex marriage violates religious freedom.
No, Brian, it isn't.
"The undisputed facts show that Respondents discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage, in violation of § 24-34-601(2), C.R.S. Moreover, application of this law to Respondents does not violate their right to free speech or unduly abridge their right to free exercise of religion. Accordingly, Complainants’ motion for summary judgment is GRANTED and Respondents’ motion for summary judgment is DENIED."
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/asse...

You are one dumb cookie.
Brian_G wrote:
If you don't have the right to refuse to attend a religious ceremony, you have no freedom of religion.
Brian, they weren't asked to attend the ceremony, they were asked to bake a cake, which is what their business exists to do.

You are truly an idiot. With a childlike understanding of the world. Truly you are proof that a little knowledge, in your case very little knowledge, is indeed a dangerous thing.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#17295 Feb 25, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
Arizona's new law protects your religious freedom:
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/s...
Brian, although you have long since jumped the shark, you now have also jumped the gun. The governor has not yet signed this bill into law. What is more, the bill doesn't seem to be even that popular with Arizona Republicans, with both of their federal Senators voicing opposition to the bill. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/02/...

It appears that some legislators wish to save Arizona from becoming a laughing stock, while also saving taxpayer dollars that would be expended to defend an indefensible and unconstitutional law.

Twit.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#17296 Feb 25, 2014
Poof wrote:
<quoted text>M>O>N>E>Y >
I wonder why the Jeff's family isn't on TV? OH crap that's right Warren Jeff's in prison ,for marring under age girls and then having sex with them. Is that it?
I wonder why Larry Brinkin the "father of gay marriage" doesn't have a TV show. Oh! That's right! He was caught with photos of 2 year olds being raped by gay men. Nevermind.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#17297 Feb 25, 2014
Poof wrote:
<quoted text>M>O>N>E>Y >
It apparently has fans, other wise it wouldn't be on the air.
I wonder why the Jeff's family isn't on TV? OH crap that's right Warren Jeff's in prison ,for marring under age girls and then having sex with them. Is that it?
Oh crap, I wonder why there's another plural marriage reality show, "My Five Wives", on the air. Are they in jail?

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#17298 Feb 25, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder why Larry Brinkin the "father of gay marriage" doesn't have a TV show. Oh! That's right! He was caught with photos of 2 year olds being raped by gay men. Nevermind.
Point and COUNTER POINT!
Poof

Madison, WI

#17299 Feb 25, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder why Larry Brinkin the "father of gay marriage" doesn't have a TV show. Oh! That's right! He was caught with photos of 2 year olds being raped by gay men. Nevermind.
And I am happy that the pedophile is locked up. You on other hand are out raged that Jeffs is behind bars.
Poof

Madison, WI

#17300 Feb 25, 2014
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
It apparently has fans, other wise it wouldn't be on the air.
<quoted text>
Oh crap, I wonder why there's another plural marriage reality show, "My Five Wives", on the air. Are they in jail?
Have they claimed to be married legally? Are the ladies at least the age of consent? Jeffs was not tossed in jail for having multiple wives ( as he was legally married to just one. His sorry azz was thrown into jail for child rape, but according to HIS religion they where married.

Its your turn

Mr Brown ( Kody) is legally married to just one of the four. Mr Brown lives with 4 females , one of them is his lawful wife, its called cohabitation.

A federal judge in Utah has struck down part of that state's law banning polygamy, after a lawsuit was brought by the stars of the television reality series "Sister Wives."

The ruling late Friday by U.S. District Court Judge Clark Waddoups threw out the law's section prohibiting "cohabitation," saying it violates constitutional guarantees of due process and religious freedom.

But the judge said he would keep in place the ban on bigamy "in the literal sense -- the fraudulent or otherwise impermissible possession of two purportedly valid marriage licenses for the purpose of entering into more than one purportedly legal marriage."


As you can see in Utah, polygamy is still illegal. cohabitation is not.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#17301 Feb 25, 2014
Poof wrote:
<quoted text>
Polygamists have multiple wives and dozens of children, but the state only recognizes one marriage. That leaves the rest of the wives to claim themselves as single moms with armies of children to support. Doing that means they can apply for welfare, which they do. And it's all legal.
This is a problem created by the government. If the government let them marry their baby daddy, they would no longer be single mothers.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#17302 Feb 25, 2014
Poof wrote:
<quoted text>Have they claimed to be married legally?
Nope.
Are the ladies at least the age of consent?
Yup.
Jeffs was not tossed in jail for having multiple wives ( as he was legally married to just one. His sorry azz was thrown into jail for child rape, but according to HIS religion they where married.
Its your turn
He committed a crime, and was charged, prosecuted, and sentenced. What crime is the Brown family committing?
Mr Brown ( Kody) is legally married to just one of the four.
Correct.
Mr Brown lives with 4 females , one of them is his lawful wife, its called cohabitation.
He lives with his four wives, only one of whom is legally recognized as such. They are all spiritual, or sister wives, hence the title of the show.
A federal judge in Utah has struck down part of that state's law banning polygamy, after a lawsuit was brought by the stars of the television reality series "Sister Wives."
The ruling late Friday by U.S. District Court Judge Clark Waddoups threw out the law's section prohibiting "cohabitation," saying it violates constitutional guarantees of due process and religious freedom.
".....part of the law banning polygamy,...." Exactly.
But the judge said he would keep in place the ban on bigamy "in the literal sense -- the fraudulent or otherwise impermissible possession of two purportedly valid marriage licenses for the purpose of entering into more than one purportedly legal marriage."
The Browns have not done that.
As you can see in Utah, polygamy is still illegal. cohabitation is not.
Polygamy is still practiced, it's simply not legally recognized.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#17303 Feb 25, 2014
Which is better? What is the norm now, a baby daddy with several baby mommas? Or a married man with several wives?

Which is better? Section 8 funds for several houses, one for each baby momma, or section 8 funds for only one house with several baby mommas living in it? Or more likely no more section 8 funds at all because families with more than two adults make more money than families with only 1 or 2 adults. And also because of the economy of scale. One house instead of several.

Legalize polygamy.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#17304 Feb 25, 2014
Poof wrote:
<quoted text>And I am happy that the pedophile is locked up. You on other hand are out raged that Jeffs is behind bars.
No I'm not. Why do you so easily and cheaply lie?

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#17305 Feb 25, 2014
Poof wrote:
<quoted text>As the wives admitted on the last episode -- many sister wives like to banish from their brains, the fact that their husband is having sex and full intimate relationships with his other wives, but that becomes unpleasantly difficult when a sister wife becomes pregnant.
Now, Robyn is pregnant and the other wives clearly got the creeps when they had to see her bed. The tours were for a part of the show in which Kody announces that the family has enough money for each wife to buy furniture for one room in each of their new houses.
How this unemployed family of one husband, four wives, and soon-to-be seventeen kids affords ANY new furniture for their four Las Vegas houses, I don't know , but the shopping expedition gave the wives more chances to diss Robyn. Janelle particularly gets her digs in at Robyn, pointing out that she, Janelle, is more like a man, like Kody in fact, when she shops -- she likes to just get in and get the job done. She's not indecisive.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bonnie-fuller/t...
Yet they still remained married to Kody.
How polygamy affects your wallet
You may or may not agree with polygamist Warren Jeffs' lifestyle, and you may or may not think he is indeed the dangerous criminal the FBI says he is, but would you believe Jeffs and his followers are costing you money?
"Their religious belief is that they'll bleed the beast, meaning the government," said Mark Shurtleff, Utah's attorney general. "They hate the government, so they'll bleed it for everything they can through welfare, tax evasion and fraud."
It makes some sense. Polygamists have multiple wives and dozens of children, but the state only recognizes one marriage. That leaves the rest of the wives to claim themselves as single moms with armies of children to support. Doing that means they can apply for welfare, which they do. And it's all legal.
"More than 65 percent of the people are on welfare ... compared with 6 percent of the people of the general population," Shurtleff said.
Shurtleff hasn't filed charges against Jeffs or his organization, but he's investigating Jeffs for "cooking the books," avoiding taxes, and even setting up offshore accounts.
One thing we do know is that Jeffs and his followers have not been paying their fair share of property taxes.
A judge appointed accountant Bruce Wisan to take control of the group's $110 million trust. Wisan's biggest challenge: Collecting more than $1 million in overdue property taxes from polygamist property owners living in Colorado City, Arizona, where Jeffs' church is based.
"They've received benefits of living on trust land for free," Wisan said. "They didn't pay for the land. In many cases it was community efforts that built the house. So all they have to pay are utilities and property taxes and I don't think that's unreasonable
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.coop...
In other parts of the country it's called "baby's daddy", or "baby's mama". Perfectly legal, and subsidized by the state.

Sounds like the above article is a reason to legalize plural marriage, and regulate it.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#17306 Feb 25, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
This is a problem created by the government. If the government let them marry their baby daddy, they would no longer be single mothers.
Frankie, the government guarantees that states must provide all persons within their jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. All states have marriage between two people. No state allows marriage of three or more people in one marriage.

If you learned to count, or bothered to understand what equal means, you wouldn't make yourself look so stupid.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#17307 Feb 25, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a problem created by the government. If the government let them marry their baby daddy, they would no longer be single mothers.
Exactly....odd how that escapes attention by the pro SSM/anti polygamy crowd.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#17308 Feb 25, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
Which is better? What is the norm now, a baby daddy with several baby mommas? Or a married man with several wives?
Which is better? Section 8 funds for several houses, one for each baby momma, or section 8 funds for only one house with several baby mommas living in it? Or more likely no more section 8 funds at all because families with more than two adults make more money than families with only 1 or 2 adults. And also because of the economy of scale. One house instead of several.
Legalize polygamy.
Gee Frankie, still can't count, I see.

If you want to be legally married and have the legal rights and protections of marriage, you'll have to choose just one baby momma.

Your inability to count really seems to be clouding your understanding of what is really a very straightforward issue. I, personally, think it is hysterical to watch you air your stupidity in public.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#17309 Feb 25, 2014
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Gee Frankie, still can't count, I see.
If you want to be legally married and have the legal rights and protections of marriage, you'll have to choose just one baby momma.
Your inability to count really seems to be clouding your understanding of what is really a very straightforward issue. I, personally, think it is hysterical to watch you air your stupidity in public.
Naah, it's much more funny you repeating the "can't count" argument against marriage equality. I mean that is DUMB. But carry on! It's all you seem to have, stick with it. Don't weaken now!
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#17310 Feb 25, 2014
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Frankie, the government guarantees that states must provide all persons within their jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. All states have marriage between two people. No state allows marriage of three or more people in one marriage.
If you learned to count, or bothered to understand what equal means, you wouldn't make yourself look so stupid.
Yeah yeah. Polygamy should be illegal because Frankie can't count. You said that 20 times already! It's lost it's comic value, now it's just boring. Get a real argument.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#17311 Feb 25, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
Naah, it's much more funny you repeating the "can't count" argument against marriage equality. I mean that is DUMB. But carry on! It's all you seem to have, stick with it. Don't weaken now!
I think it is hysterical that you keep reaffirming your basic shortcomings.

Congratulations, Frankie, you're an idiot who cannot count.
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
Yeah yeah. Polygamy should be illegal because Frankie can't count. You said that 20 times already! It's lost it's comic value, now it's just boring. Get a real argument.
No, Frankie, that you are an uneducated idiot who can't count to three or understand that three or more is greater than two is just the icing on the cake.

The basic problem with your premise is that polygamists, by definition, do not seek equal protection of the law, they seek something greater.

If you could count, or understand equality, you might understand that.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#17312 Feb 25, 2014
That lides is so funny!
" you're an idiot who cannot count."
" you are an uneducated idiot who can't count"
Insults are just another way to say 'Frankie, you win.'

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