The problem with Obama's CIA probe

Posted in the US Politics Forum

“WHERE DID COMMON SENSE GO?”

Since: Aug 08

NEW YORK

#1 Aug 25, 2009
Obama's AG is determined to prosecute the CIA's agents who applied "harsh interrogation techniques, AKA torture, on prisoners. The first misleading part of this is that, there was no "torture of prisoners" in the general sense, except for two well-known self admitted terrorists, one of them being Khalid Sheik Muhammed, the chief operating officer of 911. He was one of the masterminds that caused the death of 3000 Americans.

My issue with this probe is as follows:

1)Obama, nor Eric Holder, have any experience with interrogating terrorists. They don't have practical knowledge of what it takes to extract valuable information out of monsters like Khalid. Having Obama and Holder preach on what does and does not work when comes to interrogating terrorists is like having a chef perform brain surgery. Obama should let the professionals, the men and women, who have kept this country safe, speak on that. Let us have their opinion. I want to hear the experts, not the inexperienced bureaucrats in DC.

2)If Obama is so sure that "harsh interrogation techniques" do not work, he should then tell us what "does work". What does work Mr. President?

3)Obama released the memos that exposed the interrogation techniques (waterboarding) on Khalid, but did not, DID NOT, release the results accomplished by the techniques used. According to CIA's insiders, the information obtained through a little waterboarding of Khalid, "saved American lives and played a role in nearly every capture of al-Qaida members and associates since 2002." Lets release the entire memo Mr. Pres, and not just the parts that you find convenient.

4)If Obama has an issue with the practices of the CIA, he should not prosecute the "executioners" of the techniques used, but the ones who authorized them. And that would be former Pres Bush and his high level national security team. But of course Obama will not do that. Prosecuting the interrogators is called scapegoating, gross, shameless scapegoating. His approach has left the CIA demoralized and the agents afraid of doing what they know and need to do in order to get their job done because at some point they might be prosecuted.

It is easy to tell the agency "do not do this and that" but then, where are your guidelines Mr. Pres on what they "should be doing"?

I must make clear that, I do not support torture whatsoever, on suspects of anything, but, if you capture a self admitted terrorist, "talking" to the animal will not do it. Khalid was the chief operating officer of al-Qaida. He knew who would strike, where and how. Do you really think he would disclose any information without excruciating pain being inflicted upon his murderous ass? I don't think so.

It is egregious for any manager to condemn any work practices without presenting the company with very clear solutions to make the team more effective. I am sure the Pres does not intend to hinder the work of the CIA, but when he fails to provide them with alternatives that will ensure its continuing success on the war on terror, it weakens the very institution we entrust to keep us safe from off shore threats.

“Death of literacy - few notice”

Since: May 09

Alamo

#2 Aug 25, 2009
Lukas - Prelim - There were many prisoners, 103 had died in custody as of 05/02. How many died under torture? 1. VP Cheney had less than 0 experience, he had a Little Orphan Annie Magic Decoder Ring - whence Achmed Chalabi, PNAC, Wolfowitz, S. Libby, Perl, etc. Worse of all were his ideological blinders. W's admin demoralized CIA, by stovepiping & cherrypicking intel, questioning & pressuring analysts until they got what they wanted. Then W appointed a crony, & the resignations @ Langley flew.@ least Panetta is a technocrat, not an ideologue. 2. Pass. 3. Pass - Bush W got a pass whenever he said "secret" - what's the diff now? 4. Not known, TBD by Special Prosecutor (that's the majority of his brief,@ this point, in this investigation.)

“WHERE DID COMMON SENSE GO?”

Since: Aug 08

NEW YORK

#3 Sep 13, 2009
hoosier, i am not at all in agreement with w's use of the cia to justify his very misguided decisions. but i dont think we should generalize all of his policies as bad. al-qaida did not attach us after 9/11 and that was not just because we got lucky. my only point is the fact that 1) khalid sheik muhammed was not a suspect, he was an admitted terrorist, the coo of bin laden. and he did in fact talk after being tortured, he gave us intl that led to the capture of other terrorists, its all in the memo. i am completely against torturing suspects, just as i am against punishing any presumed innocent person, but when comes to a known terrorist, i think all measures to get info from them should be used. they do not respond to talks. they blow themselves up in the name of their cause. we cant reason with them. about panneta, i still think we should have well experienced people in charge of all national sec agencies, incl the dhs and cia. neither panetta or napolitano know anything about intel and that scares me.

“Death of literacy - few notice”

Since: May 09

Alamo

#4 Sep 13, 2009
Lukas @#3 - I judge policy by results. I don't like what I see of the late Prex. Bush's policy nor results. KSM was a prisoner - if we needed to interrogate him, fine, drug him to the gills & interrogate him. The effectiveness of torture, & KSM's torture in particular, is still up in the air. On expertise - you're missing the point. DCI Tenet was experienced, for what it was worth. & he caved to the admin pressure from VP Cheney, Pres. Bush, et al. VP Cheney actually should have had related experience (@ DOD), but apparently wasted his time there,@ least as far as intel goes. Bush's admin wore ideological blinders & refused to listen to experts - until the Scheiss hit the fan, & then they wanted to "consult" (issue orders to) NATO, UN, WHO, World Bank - anyone who'd take the calls.(They weren't many.) The entire Bush admin was a very bad rewrite of a "Seinfeld" episode - nothing, brilliantly presented. All tactics, no strategy.

“WHERE DID COMMON SENSE GO?”

Since: Aug 08

NEW YORK

#5 Sep 19, 2009
Hoosier: If you read the entire memo you will see that the torture produced results. KSM did in factr reveal crucial info that led to the capturing of other terrorists. As far as I am concerned, that was good enough. The pill, drugging, truth serum thing doesnt always work. Sujects usually lose complete sense of reality and enter into a very delusional state. Torture however, does make you talk. Everyone has a breaking point. I am competely against torturing "suspects', it is like applying a sentence to a person who has not been found guulty. But, if you are a OBL or KSM, oh yes, torture the shit out of them. My friend, I will send principles to hell when comes to dealing with monsters. 911 still very much fresh in my mind. We have not been attacked by al-qaida since then and that was not pure coincidence or luck.

“Death of literacy - few notice”

Since: May 09

Alamo

#6 Sep 19, 2009
Lukas @#5 - OK, what memo?

“WHERE DID COMMON SENSE GO?”

Since: Aug 08

NEW YORK

#7 Sep 21, 2009
Hoosier, the infamous "enhanced interrogation techniques" memo that the Obama administration made public after being pressured by the UCLA. Google it.

“Death of literacy - few notice”

Since: May 09

Alamo

#8 Sep 21, 2009
Lukas @#7 - There's too many memos in re. Can you provide the date of the particular memo?

Or some way of IDing the particular memo we're talking about here?

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