Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on Black Churches

Mar 1, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Skanner

With Maryland poised to legalize gay marriage, some conservative opponents and religious leaders are counting on members of their congregations, especially in black churches, to upend the legislation at the polls this fall.

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#9932
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
And thanks to you for admitting your willingness and desire to harm gay people is based on fear and prejudice, rather than any legitimate governmental interest.
The issue has nothing to do with a "desire to harm gay people" because many gay people want to keep marriage as one man and one woman:

Xavier Bongibault, a member of a group called Plus Gay Sans Mariage -- More Gay Without Marriage -- said the demonstration is not for the homophobic.

He said many people who are gay or support gay rights believe marriage should be reserved for heterosexuals.

"In France marriage is not a contract about love: it is a contract that creates the framework for the protection of children. I believe a child must have a mother and father," he said. "Everyone has the right to get married. I am homosexual but if I wanted to get married I could find a woman. Marriage has certain conditions, the main one of which is that it has to be between a man and woman."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/0...

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#9933
Jan 14, 2013
 
"But even if Congress believed at the time of DOMA's passage that children had the best chance at success if raised jointly by their biological mothers and fathers, a desire to encourage heterosexual couples to procreate and rear their own children more responsibly would not provide a rational basis for denying federal recognition to same-sex marriages. Such denial does nothing to promote stability in heterosexual parenting. Rather, it "prevents children of same-sex couples from enjoying the immeasurable advantages that flow from the assurance of a stable family structure, when afforded equal recognition under federal law.

Moreover, an interest in encouraging responsible procreation plainly cannot provide a rational basis upon which to exclude same-sex marriages from federal recognition because, as Justice Scalia pointed out, the ability to procreate is not now, nor has it ever been, a precondition to marriage in any state in the country. Indeed, "the sterile and the elderly" have never been denied the right to marry by any of the fifty states. And the federal government has never considered denying recognition to marriage based on an ability or inability to procreate.

Similarly, Congress' asserted interest in defending and nurturing heterosexual marriage is not "grounded in sufficient factual context for this court to ascertain some relation" between it and the classification DOMA effects.

What remains, therefore, is the possibility that Congress sought to deny recognition to same-sex marriages in order to make heterosexual marriage appear more valuable or desirable. But the extent that this was the goal, Congress has achieved it "only by punishing same-sex couples who exercise their rights under state law." And this the Constitution does not permit. "For if the constitutional conception of 'equal protection of the laws' means anything, it must at the very least mean" that the Constitution will not abide such "a bare congressional desire to harm a politically unpopular group."

http://docfiles.justia.com/cases/federal/dist...

Denial of marriage equality provides nothing for opposite sex couples, while only harming same sex couples and their children. It is irrational prejudice.

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#9934
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Prejudice, no matter how popular, has no place in the law.

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#9935
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Please tell us what you think is untrue in this statement:
Ssme seex marriage = gender segregation marriage
Same race marriage = racial segregation
Same ethnic group marriage = ethnic segregation
Sorry, but Gay and Lesbian couples getting married is not gender segregation........it has to do more with who one is attracted to!!!

There are interracial Gay and Lesbian couples as well as those of the same ethnic background.

You really keep trying to make this world stay in your view, but it isn't going to!!!

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

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#9936
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>The issue has nothing to do with a "desire to harm gay people" because many gay people want to keep marriage as one man and one woman:
Xavier Bongibault, a member of a group called Plus Gay Sans Mariage -- More Gay Without Marriage -- said the demonstration is not for the homophobic.
He said many people who are gay or support gay rights believe marriage should be reserved for heterosexuals.
"In France marriage is not a contract about love: it is a contract that creates the framework for the protection of children. I believe a child must have a mother and father," he said. "Everyone has the right to get married. I am homosexual but if I wanted to get married I could find a woman. Marriage has certain conditions, the main one of which is that it has to be between a man and woman."
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/0...
The United Stated of America is not France and therefore we don't follow they're thought process!!!

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#9937
Jan 14, 2013
 
They're should be their.....in my last post!!!

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#9938
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Please tell us what you think is untrue in this statement:
Ssme seex marriage = gender segregation marriage
Same race marriage = racial segregation
Same ethnic group marriage = ethnic segregation.
So, according to your formula, everybody must marry someone of a different race and ethnicity in order to assure diversity.

It makes far more sense to allow individuals to choose whether to marry someone outside their race, ethnicity, or gender if that's what they want to do. Nobody suggests that we should FORCE people to marry outside their race or ethncity.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

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#9939
Jan 14, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>The issue has nothing to do with a "desire to harm gay people" because many gay people want to keep marriage as one man and one woman....
Some black people think we should practice racial segregation. So what?

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#9940
Jan 14, 2013
 
NorCal Native wrote:
Sorry, but Gay and Lesbian couples getting married is not gender segregation........it has to do more with who one is attracted to!!!
That's true; homosexuals have always married under the same laws as everyone else. Oscar Wilde and Meredith Baxter are two examples, even a gay man is attracted to the woman who will be the mother of his child.

Changing the definition of marriage to create a new standard of marriage apartheid harms marriage diversity of male/female union.

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NorCal Native wrote:
There are interracial Gay and Lesbian couples as well as those of the same ethnic background.
You really keep trying to make this world stay in your view, but it isn't going to!!!
They can be gender segregated but not racially segregated; what's your point? They are still fostering a new model of gender discrimination in marriage.

Same sex marriage is bad for so MANY reasons; even many homosexuals agree to protect marriage"
Xavier Bongibault, a member of a group called Plus Gay Sans Mariage -- More Gay Without Marriage -- said the demonstration is not for the homophobic.

He said many people who are gay or support gay rights believe marriage should be reserved for heterosexuals.

"In France marriage is not a contract about love: it is a contract that creates the framework for the protection of children. I believe a child must have a mother and father," he said. "Everyone has the right to get married. I am homosexual but if I wanted to get married I could find a woman. Marriage has certain conditions, the main one of which is that it has to be between a man and woman."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/0...

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#9941
Jan 14, 2013
 

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nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
So, according to your formula, everybody must marry someone of a different race and ethnicity in order to assure diversity.
It makes far more sense to allow individuals to choose whether to marry someone outside their race, ethnicity, or gender if that's what they want to do. Nobody suggests that we should FORCE people to marry outside their race or ethncity.
This silly argument seems to rely on the false belief everyone would be required to marry a person of the same sex. But marriage equality would actually expand the choice from one gender to two, giving bisexual people a choice, and thereby expanding diversity rather than restricting it.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

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#9942
Jan 14, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>That's true; homosexuals have always married under the same laws as everyone else.
Who cares what Gays and Lesbians did in the past? The fact remains that they DON'T have to live a lie anymore and should be able to marry the person of their choosing, NOT based on what's between their legs!!!!

If you are happy with things in France......then maybe you should go live there, but this protest doesn't mean the end of the fight......it's just a protest!!!

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#9943
Jan 14, 2013
 
I've made no arguments about race or ethnicity in marriage; I'm just pointing out the fact:

Same sex marriage creates a new standard of gender apartheid in marriage. Where traditional marriage has always been gender diverse; same sex marriage introduces gender segregation in marriage.

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#9944
Jan 14, 2013
 
Some homosexuals choose to marry their child's other parent; I commend that wisdom.

Here's an example of another bit of wisdom from a gay man:

Xavier Bongibault, a member of a group called Plus Gay Sans Mariage -- More Gay Without Marriage -- said the demonstration is not for the homophobic.

He said many people who are gay or support gay rights believe marriage should be reserved for heterosexuals.

"In France marriage is not a contract about love: it is a contract that creates the framework for the protection of children. I believe a child must have a mother and father," he said. "Everyone has the right to get married. I am homosexual but if I wanted to get married I could find a woman. Marriage has certain conditions, the main one of which is that it has to be between a man and woman."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/0...

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

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#9945
Jan 14, 2013
 
DIDN'T Lincoln set the Blacks FREE?? Are we NOT FREE CITIZENS living in the good ole USA?? So, WHY THE FREAK should Maryland bar worried THAT the Blacks SHOULD vote this down?? If you are GAY..You could be of any race, culture and social class... WE in America are going backwards NOT forward.. FOR Equal Rights for One and All..sometimes, I truly am ashamed to be an American. Like when the President and their competitor are vying for the Presidential seat for the next four year term..THEY single out a certain group of citizens.. such as the Hispanics, Asians or Geographical states.. the North , Central or Southern states.
WHY?? Are we NOT As One Country.. WHY are some STILL being Segorated??

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#9946
Jan 14, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
I've made no arguments about race or ethnicity in marriage; I'm just pointing out the fact:
Same sex marriage creates a new standard of gender apartheid in marriage. Where traditional marriage has always been gender diverse; same sex marriage introduces gender segregation in marriage.
Brian, if you don't even understand what you write. I'm not sure why you write at all. You said:
Brian_G wrote:
Ssme seex marriage = gender segregation marriage
Same race marriage = racial segregation
Same ethnic group marriage = ethnic segregation
Obviously, you are implying some sort of parallel. Of course, this is an argument we have ourselves been making, but you have previously tried to pretend doesn't exist.

If these idea are parallel, what can we conclude?

People should be free to marry someone of the same or different ethnicity.

People should be free to marry someone of the same or different race.

Therefore, people should be free to marry someone of the same or different gender.

If you ever get a clue how logic works, you could become dangerous.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

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#9947
Jan 14, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
I've made no arguments about race or ethnicity in marriage; I'm just pointing out the fact:
Same sex marriage creates a new standard of gender apartheid in marriage. Where traditional marriage has always been gender diverse; same sex marriage introduces gender segregation in marriage.
Again Brian, you have NO facts!!!

Sorry, but if you deny one to marry based on gender, than you really don't understand DIVERSITY at all!!!

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#9948
Jan 14, 2013
 
Colorado Chick wrote:
DIDN'T Lincoln set the Blacks FREE?? Are we NOT FREE CITIZENS living in the good ole USA?? So, WHY THE FREAK should Maryland bar worried THAT the Blacks SHOULD vote this down?? If you are GAY..You could be of any race, culture and social class... WE in America are going backwards NOT forward.. FOR Equal Rights for One and All..sometimes, I truly am ashamed to be an American. Like when the President and their competitor are vying for the Presidential seat for the next four year term..THEY single out a certain group of citizens.. such as the Hispanics, Asians or Geographical states.. the North , Central or Southern states.
WHY?? Are we NOT As One Country.. WHY are some STILL being Segorated??
Happily, the election is over and a majority of blacks, along with a majority of all Marylanders, voted for equality. We are moving forward.

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

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#9949
Jan 14, 2013
 

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nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Happily, the election is over and a majority of blacks, along with a majority of all Marylanders, voted for equality. We are moving forward.
AND..this is WHY America WILL remain STRONG with her Values..For We Are One Nation GOD..
sickofit

Hayfield, MN

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#9950
Jan 14, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Please tell us what you think is untrue in this statement:
Ssme seex marriage = gender segregation marriage
Same race marriage = racial segregation
Same ethnic group marriage = ethnic segregation
[]Before the 21st century, all written law defined marriage as gender integrated, between male and female. In the West we had a perfect affirmative action of 1:1, man and woman. That gender integrated institution had gender diversity harmony.
Now, same sex marriage supporters want a new standard of gender apartheid marriage; that's why I support marriage as one man and one woman.
.
<quoted text>I stand by what I wrote before:
[]You can see from the [quote] above; many same sex marriage supporters don't use reason; this is an example of the ad hominem fallacy. They base their opinions on how it makes them feel instead of considering the consequences. From the question above; they find it difficult to think about the things they support.[ That's why they defame their political opponents and post hate speech!]
If you love rationality; keep marriage one man and one woman.
You dont ecver post 1 single fact or truth..YOU ONLY POST YOUR NAZI FASCIST KKK LIES......

Now sit down and wait for your rapture ..........WE THE PEOPLE WILL MOVE FOWARD AND INTO THE MODERN AND FUTURE TIMES....Your kind is dying off.....GOOD..........
Most people under 40 support same sex marriage..WHEN YOU OLD BIGOTED NAZI PIGS DIE OFF ALL THE BETTER FOR THE WORLD.....HOPE YOU GET CANCER AND DIE IN PAIN YOU TRASH...

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#9951
Jan 14, 2013
 
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Who cares what Gays and Lesbians did in the past? The fact remains that they DON'T have to live a lie anymore and should be able to marry the person of their choosing, NOT based on what's between their legs!!!!
If you are happy with things in France......then maybe you should go live there, but this protest doesn't mean the end of the fight......it's just a protest!!!
By qualifying his statement using the word "laws" he hopes to discount the documentation demonstrating gay people have been forming committed relationships at various times and places throughout history.

But I agree that a history of irrational prejudice and discrimination is not a valid justification for continuing that prejudice and discrimination, no matter how popular.

"At times throughout history, same-sex relationships have enjoyed relative freedom within their respective places.

Evidence exists that same-sex marriages were tolerated in parts of Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. Artifacts from Egypt, for example, show that same-sex relationships not only existed, but the discovery of a pharaonic tomb for such a couple shows their union was recognized by the kingdom. Meanwhile, accounts of the Israelites' departure for Canaan include their condemnation of Egyptian acceptance of same-sex practice. In actuality, same-sex marital practices and rituals are less known in Egypt compared to Mesopotamia, where documents exist for a variety of marital practices, including male lovers of kings and polyandry. None of the recorded laws of Mesopotamia, including the Code of Hammurabi, contain restrictions against same-sex unions despite the fact that marriages are otherwise well regulated. "
http://www.randomhistory.com/history-of-gay-m...

A book by the Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes same sex ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books,“Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae”(Paris, 1667).

Another book by Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries.

"Historical evidence, including legal documents and gravesites, can be interpreted as supporting the prevalence of homosexual relationships hundreds of years ago, said Allan Tulchin of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania.

Gay Marriage Is As Old As History www.gaychristian101.com/Gay-Marriage.html

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