In America, atheists are still in the...

In America, atheists are still in the closet

There are 51414 comments on the Spiked story from Apr 11, 2012, titled In America, atheists are still in the closet. In it, Spiked reports that:

So do many other interest and identity groups. Complaint is our political lingua franca: it's what Occupiers, Tea Partiers, Wall Street titans, religious and irreligious people share.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Spiked.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#9815 May 24, 2012
uIdiotRacesMAkeWorldPeace wrote:
<quoted text>Interjecting! They, the Xtain Fundie -Neocons still say US born a Christian nation and is the law... how you will counter this?
The US is a Christian nation in the sense that the majority of its citizens call themselves Christians, and have been influenced by Christian doctrine. As a result, many Christian values are American values - or are only recently ceasing to be - such as homophobia and atheophobia. In that sense, America is a Christian nation in many ways.

But the American government is not Christian. It is secular. The rights it guarantees are not god given. They arise from the mind of humanist philosophers, and gain their legitimacy through the consent of the governed. And I don't care of the Founders were Christian, deist, atheist, or anything else.

Americanism as a political philosophy is radically different from the Christian biblical model for government. And there is no Christian law except the little bit that has leaked through the wall of separation since the inception of the nation - some blue laws, laws inserting god in the pledge and currency, etc,

Is that what you meant?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#9816 May 24, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
The UK has a state religion.
The USA has a Constitution
And the Constitution in the USA prohibits state religion.
For those that speak English, the USA is a secular state.
The UK is not.
Perhaps next time you are in England, you can ask Queen Elizabeth her opinion... as the head of state, and of the head of the state religion.
And yet, the US is more religious than the UK.

Imagine that.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#9817 May 24, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Good career choice, she has a solid future ahead.
Fine, I'll be the imp on your shoulder. Bwahahahahah!
Ayup. She turned 23 in February. Want to go work overseas.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#9818 May 24, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Mmmmm! Scalp!
Optimally, the scalp should be marinated in Head and Shoulders for several hours first, not just for the selenium flavoring, but also because scalp tends to be a little chewy and scurfy.
Keep an eye on the scalp though, they'll dry up and frizz like nobody's dirty business.

If that happens all you can really use them for is a place to sit your teapot.

Possibly a pad for an orbital buffer, that might be a solution.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#9819 May 24, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Secular humanism is what the US was founded on.
Hmm.

Dunno if I can agree with that 100%

The US was founded with humanistic values in mind, certainly. But I am sceptical about the 'secular' part.

Although, I readily admit, I am no expert. I am sure IANS, Darwin's Stepchild, Catcher, Madscot and Aerobatty will be able to correct me

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#9820 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
I may be your equal, but you have boobs.
Not even Double Fine can match that.
Uhm. Ah. Heh-heh.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#9821 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Yo
Your name calling, although juvenile, is not too bad.
Promoting violence against women is disgusting, though.
I could take him! I mean, really, all you'd have to do is kick the walker away.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#9822 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Give an exaple of a US politician who announced he is/was an atheist.
What is his stature within the party he is serving?
Nicely said, sir!

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#9823 May 24, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhm. Ah. Heh-heh.
Erm.

Yeah..

Heh heh

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#9824 May 24, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Nicely said, sir!
Yes.

You said 'nicely'.

You said it very nicely

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#9825 May 24, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I could take him! I mean, really, all you'd have to do is kick the walker away.
Hey. Walkers make great defensive weapons.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#9826 May 24, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Secular humanism is what the US was founded on.
The U.S. was founded on many ideals, but not secular humanism. Perhaps certain ideals overlapped with secular humanism, but other ideals contradict it completely.

Up till today, the U.S. has by far the highest military expenditure in the world, has the most active army in the world, and since the collapse of the soviet union, has been the most active invading force in the world. Historically, the Civil War, black human rights, and now recently homosexual rights had to be constantly fought for. This is not indicative at all, of a country founded on secular humanism.

Perhaps if you talk about Canada or Scandinavia, it is more plausible to suggest secular humanism as their philosophy.

“Just a very naughty boy.”

Since: Dec 08

Dodge

#9827 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
I heard the lads were reforming! Since Cornell has joined Soundgarden again (who, face it, is pretty much the greatest rock act ever), so RATM are going to release another album!!
*Jumps around with joy!*

They had a christmas number one here a couple of years back with Killing in the name of. It was a show of people power. We have the XFactor here(you probably heard of it?) its a all singing all dancing competition where the eventual winner after many drawn out heart destroying weeks normally releases a single(always a cover) just in time for christmas. Now for the past 5-6 years these Xfactor winners and their horrible covers have always gone to number one for christmas. Well a couple of years back there was a massive push on places like facebook and myspace to download R.A.T.M Killing in the name off to gazump Simon cowells Xfactor robot singers number one spot. It worked! It was fantastic waking up Chrimbo morning and listening to Rage!!!

“Just a very naughty boy.”

Since: Dec 08

Dodge

#9828 May 24, 2012
I'll add because of that R.A.T.M put on a special gig in london for charity that year.

“Just a very naughty boy.”

Since: Dec 08

Dodge

#9829 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
The UK is what one calls a UNITARY state. It is a country in it's own right. However, each of the Home Nations are considered countries as well.
That's why we have the nations cups in rugby. We used to in football too. The united kingdoom is the unity of the nations withing great Britain.

You're quite right DF.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#9830 May 24, 2012
Skitz wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why we have the nations cups in rugby. We used to in football too. The united kingdoom is the unity of the nations withing great Britain.
You're quite right DF.
Lol.

You said 'United Kingdoom'

“Just a very naughty boy.”

Since: Dec 08

Dodge

#9831 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol.
You said 'United Kingdoom'
Ah yes, the old King-doom. He was an awful king. He was the one who put the water between us and Ireland.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#9832 May 24, 2012
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The U.S. was founded on many ideals, but not secular humanism. Perhaps certain ideals overlapped with secular humanism, but other ideals contradict it completely.
Up till today, the U.S. has by far the highest military expenditure in the world, has the most active army in the world, and since the collapse of the soviet union, has been the most active invading force in the world. Historically, the Civil War, black human rights, and now recently homosexual rights had to be constantly fought for. This is not indicative at all, of a country founded on secular humanism.
Perhaps if you talk about Canada or Scandinavia, it is more plausible to suggest secular humanism as their philosophy.
Strictly speaking, I would say you are correct. Secular Humanism is a later development than the Constitution. Many of the ideals, though, of the Founding Fathers are the same as those later incorporated into Secular Humanism.

The ideals of the Constitution were products of the Enlightenment, which was a philosophical movement in Europe in the 18th century.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#9833 May 24, 2012
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The U.S. was founded on many ideals, but not secular humanism. Perhaps certain ideals overlapped with secular humanism, but other ideals contradict it completely.

Up till today, the U.S. has by far the highest military expenditure in the world, has the most active army in the world, and since the collapse of the soviet union, has been the most active invading force in the world. Historically, the Civil War, black human rights, and now recently homosexual rights had to be constantly fought for. This is not indicative at all, of a country founded on secular humanism.
That's a good point. America did embody some Christian values such as continuous war, genocide of the indigenes, slavery and systematic homophobia.

But I'd still call secular humanism the dominant philosophy of Americanism and the American Constitution. Ideas like guaranteed personal freedoms, liberal education, and democracy were contaminated with Christian traditions, like school prayer and the death sentences, the modern stonings.

You can just feel the two traditions at work during the Constitutional Convention:

"All men are created equal!" says the humanist.

"Except the n****rs, the accursed descendents of Cain, who are only 3/5 of a person, and can be our slaves as long as our lethal beatings of them result in slow deaths of more than two days duration," cry the children of Jesus.

With time, we've made many corrections, all in the direction of substituting a humanist value such as abolition and suffrage for the corresponding Christian values of slavery and misogyny.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#9834 May 24, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
It amuses me to think that you fundementalist lot are so easy to insult some very, very intelligent people, who have studied for the largest part of their lives.

I have seen your ilk, who has never done one experiment, EVER, debating the creation of energy and matter with Ph.D level physicists.

I have seen your ilk, never having visited a fossil site in their lives, argue about the age of fossils with a professor in the field of geology, with 40 years of field work under his belt.
I have seen your ilk, themselves clueless about anything relating to math, debating simple mathematic principles with Ph.D level mathematicians.

I have seen your ilk, never having looked through a microscope ever in their lives, argue with Ph.D level anthropologists and microbiologists.

Why the hate towards education and experts? Where is the instinct to show these people respect? I am not asking you to believe what they say on faith alone, but why not show respect for their opinions? Was it the way you were raised? Is it an ingrained hatred to anyone who studied after school, or towards people of stature? Do you resent them because you think they make more than you in a month (not always the case, I can assure you that), or do you simply hate the fact that they cast doubt upon the myths of organised religion?
None of that surprises you any more, I'll bet.

Christian anti-intellectualism is famous, especially its contempt for science. This ancient tradition begins with the proscription against eating from the tree of knowledge. The biggest setbacks to Christianity have included the biggest advances in learning, such as the printing press and the Internet.

Faith is the enemy of reason, and reason is the enemy of faith. Many Christians on these pages have used words the words "science" and "philosophy" like they are the enemies of their faith, and that's not completely wrong. Here's a nice example from http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... :
wolverine wrote:
Speculation By Science, To Try To Explain The Unexplainable. Scientific Method Cannot Explain GOD....Never Will. Philosophy, Elitist Banter And Bloviating Cannot Explain GOD. Why Do The Minority Demand To Be In Charge ?

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