Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 31997 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19306 Dec 9, 2012
Father Overtime wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture references please
Sure. The Temple endowment. Christians shouldn't even be building temples:

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

Eternal Marriage. Jesus said there will be no marriage in the resurrection:

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Becoming Gods. God makes it clear that there will be no other Gods:
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,“And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

That also blows out the teaching that God was once a man.

That's 3 from off the top of my head. Do you need more?
1 post removed

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19308 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure. The Temple endowment. Christians shouldn't even be building temples:
Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;
Eternal Marriage. Jesus said there will be no marriage in the resurrection:
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Becoming Gods. God makes it clear that there will be no other Gods:
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,“And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
That also blows out the teaching that God was once a man.
That's 3 from off the top of my head. Do you need more?
Temples were significant to the early Christians. Why shouldn't they be significant to us? Yes, I agree, God does not live in a temple built by man. The temple was significant to Christ, he took the time to cleanse it and he had reverence for it, so it is significant to us.

The early Christians seemed to spend a lot of time in the temple as well. See Acts 2:46 They were there daily. See Acts 3:1 I think the temple was more than just a meeting place for the early Christians.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19309 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
But that plan was not the "Plan of Salvation" as taught by the LDS church. You can not find it in the Bible. In fact you can find many thing things that teach against it.
What part of the plan can not be found in the bible?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19310 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Temples were significant to the early Christians. Why shouldn't they be significant to us? Yes, I agree, God does not live in a temple built by man. The temple was significant to Christ, he took the time to cleanse it and he had reverence for it, so it is significant to us.
The early Christians seemed to spend a lot of time in the temple as well. See Acts 2:46 They were there daily. See Acts 3:1 I think the temple was more than just a meeting place for the early Christians.
There is no evidence they did anything but taught in the temple. And they pull away from it the more they started converting gentiles. Gentiles were not allowed in. They certainly didn't build any temples of there own, and you find no teachings of any temple endowments being taught.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19311 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of the plan can not be found in the bible?
That man can become Gods. The teaching of eternal marriage. That your salvation or final glory depends on how well you keep the commandments.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19312 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;
Eternal Marriage. Jesus said there will be no marriage in the resurrection:
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Becoming Gods. God makes it clear that there will be no other Gods:
This explains the marriage situation.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Marriage/As_a_requir...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19313 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That man can become Gods. The teaching of eternal marriage. That your salvation or final glory depends on how well you keep the commandments.
Christ said that we would be rewarded according to our deeds.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19314 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That man can become Gods.
Rev 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things..."

Rev 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

1 John 3:2 "...but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him..."

John 10:34 "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

Matthew 25:21 "...thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things.."

Romans 8:16-17 "...and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ..."

Psalms 82:6
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

I think the Bible has it covered pretty well. Honestly, I don't think there is a better place out of which to teach the doctrine of our divine potential than the Bible.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19315 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That also blows out the teaching that God was once a man.
That's 3 from off the top of my head. Do you need more?
John 5:19 "...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

Jesus Christ and God the Father have a lot of similarities.

If you believe in the trinity and believe that God and Jesus Christ are the same, doesn't that line of thought follow that Jesus Christ is God in the form of a man? In essence, God was a man in Jesus Christ right?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19316 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
This explains the marriage situation.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Marriage/As_a_requir...
A lot of doubletalk, and speculation. They also conveniently left out this verse by Paul:

Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

If people where married for eternity, then they would be committing adultery if they remarried after losing their spouse. Paul is clearly saying at death they are no longer married. Hence, the "death do us part" saying of the wedding vows.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19317 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
John 5:19 "...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
Jesus Christ and God the Father have a lot of similarities.
If you believe in the trinity and believe that God and Jesus Christ are the same, doesn't that line of thought follow that Jesus Christ is God in the form of a man? In essence, God was a man in Jesus Christ right?
True, but Jesus was God lowering himself to become man. Not a man who exalted himself to become God. The whole tell Jesus was on earth, he was still God.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19318 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Rev 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things..."
Rev 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
That only means we will be with him in Heaven, not become a God.
1 John 3:2 "...but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him..."
Only a reference to becoming "flesh and bone". Incorruptible flesh. Just as Jesus now has a body of flesh and bone.
John 10:34 "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
A quote of Psalm 82, which was definely not saying they are Gods like the one most high, because in the very next verse of that Psalm it says: "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."
Context, you need to work on your context.
Matthew 25:21 "...thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things.."

What was the message of that parable?
29 “For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The master never stopped being the master, and the slave was still a slave.

[QUOTE]Romans 8:16-17 "...and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ..."
Again, we it is only saying we will get to be with him in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Psalms 82:6
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
How can a person be like the real God if they can die? We are only like God in the what know the difference between good and evil.
I think the Bible has it covered pretty well. Honestly, I don't think there is a better place out of which to teach the doctrine of our divine potential than the Bible.
Yes, the Bible did cover this topic well when it said:
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,“And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

Words mean something, and "none" definitely means "none." Take this verse into account with the fact that the Bible said that the Devil was cast out of Heaven for wanting to become a God, and the whole "Plan" is blown away.
1 post removed

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19320 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
A lot of doubletalk, and speculation. They also conveniently left out this verse by Paul:
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
If people where married for eternity, then they would be committing adultery if they remarried after losing their spouse. Paul is clearly saying at death they are no longer married. Hence, the "death do us part" saying of the wedding vows.
I disagree. In the lds church it is my understanding that one can marry someone for all eternity and if the partner dies the person left can marry some one else, but just not for eternity.

Whether Paul is talking about "the law" as in the old mosaic law or "the law" as in the new gospel which fulfilled the law would determine if this quote is relevant at all to current Christianity. He is speaking of things past because he says in verse 6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

See also Romans 7 verse 4, which seems to say we can be married after the Resurrection. "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

It sounds like Paul is saying that the law doesn't matter any more to us because we are "dead to the law by the body of Christ." It also sounds like Paul is saying that now that Christ has risen and fulfilled the old law, "ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead..." or in other words, "you should be married for eternity, even after you are Resurrected."

Married after the Resurrection? It looks like Paul thinks so.

Thank you for bringing that scripture to my attention.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19321 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
A lot of doubletalk, and speculation. They also conveniently left out this verse by Paul:
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
If people where married for eternity, then they would be committing adultery if they remarried after losing their spouse. Paul is clearly saying at death they are no longer married. Hence, the "death do us part" saying of the wedding vows.
Regarding my prior post, you could argue that "him who is raised from the dead" is Christ and that we need to be figuratively married to Christ, but the statement "bring forth fruit unto God" seems to indicate that you are intended to have children with this partner. "Fruit" is used in other areas of the bible to indicate posterity or offspring. Example: "Fruit of the womb", "fruit of thy body," "fruit of thy cattle"....

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19322 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but Jesus was God lowering himself to become man. Not a man who exalted himself to become God. The whole tell Jesus was on earth, he was still God.
Can a God die? Jesus Christ's parents endowed him two essential traits necessary to give him the capacity to perform the atonement, or suffer for our sins. He had the ability to live under pain no normal man could survive (A trait given him from his Heavenly Father), yet he had the ability to willingly lay down his life (Mortality, a trait inherited from his mortal mother Mary).

I know that doesn't progress the discussion, but I think its a really awesome point to think about.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19323 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,“And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
Words mean something, and "none" definitely means "none." Take this verse into account with the fact that the Bible said that the Devil was cast out of Heaven for wanting to become a God, and the whole "Plan" is blown away.
God is ALWAYS be our God, no matter what happens. There will never come a time when we rise above Him. A Father never becomes anything less than a Father to the son as he matures and enters adulthood and the Son never becomes more than a Son to that Father as he rises in wisdom and age.

The point Isaiah is getting at is illustrated in 1 Corinthians 8: 5-6 (to be considered later), that to US there is only one God. Isaiah is making it clear that we only worship one God, where as with the heathen, there are Gods and fathers and sons of Gods, all of which must be taken into consideration when worshiping.(like Zeus and Hercules maybe...I don't know I'm no expert on heathen Gods)

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 acknowledges that there are many Gods, but we only acknowledge and worship one. "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,(as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Paul acknowledges that "there be gods many, and lords many." But to us, there is only one.
2 posts removed

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19326 Dec 12, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We believe that the Bible contains the word of God and Jesus Christ is our Savior. How is that Satanic?
I don’t have your original post, but as far as I remember, it was a story about Mormonism -- a fantasy about what you want, and totally ignored the reality as revealed by those who were in that cult, and escaped.
I listed a link to their stories on post 191969. but those who are too cowardly to face reality won’t ever check that out. You have the freedom to believe what you want, but others have the right to be free of oppression, lies, and abuse.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19327 Dec 12, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t have your original post, but as far as I remember, it was a story about Mormonism -- a fantasy about what you want, and totally ignored the reality as revealed by those who were in that cult, and escaped.
I listed a link to their stories on post 191969. but those who are too cowardly to face reality won’t ever check that out. You have the freedom to believe what you want, but others have the right to be free of oppression, lies, and abuse.
Which post #? I don't think we have that many on this thread. You might have an extra digit.
1 post removed

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19329 Dec 12, 2012
Check out this link for some awesome Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas music: http://mormon.org/christmas...

My favorite is "For unto us a child is born"

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19330 Dec 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Which post #? I don't think we have that many on this thread. You might have an extra digit.
Yes, it should be 19169, although I've noticed that Topix often holds comments for review, then inserts them back, giving my posts a different number.

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