Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32098 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

Livinginthelando fcrazy

Ozark, MO

#8751 Jun 3, 2012
janicefeather wrote:
<quoted text>Cary, listen, I think the members of the Mormon church are great people. Its just that Joseph Smith and every prophet since has been possessed with the spirit of like some sick, pissed off demon midget who can never seem to get a prophesy to stick or come true. Stay good, stay nice, don't stay Mormon. At the end of the day, I really do believe that Joseph Smith was going to finally throw up his hands and saw "April Fools". Unfortunately, we will never know, but from inference and thoughtful prayer, I feel that he was joking and the joke is over, its time to not believe that an 80 year old man knows what the fuck God knows. God bless you Cary, and welcome back to the board. I've missed you and people have been treating me pretty bad. I'm just a little old lady trying to make a difference you know?
You just can't seem to stick to the poor dying old lady schtick, can you? Too proud of who you really are?
Livinginthelando fcrazy

Ozark, MO

#8752 Jun 3, 2012
janicefeather wrote:
<quoted text>Cary, listen, I think the members of the Mormon church are great people. Its just that Joseph Smith and every prophet since has been possessed with the spirit of like some sick, pissed off demon midget who can never seem to get a prophesy to stick or come true. Stay good, stay nice, don't stay Mormon. At the end of the day, I really do believe that Joseph Smith was going to finally throw up his hands and saw "April Fools". Unfortunately, we will never know, but from inference and thoughtful prayer, I feel that he was joking and the joke is over, its time to not believe that an 80 year old man knows what the fuck God knows. God bless you Cary, and welcome back to the board. I've missed you and people have been treating me pretty bad. I'm just a little old lady trying to make a difference you know?
What's really funny is the anti's bought your BS from your first "Janice" post. And they think we lack intelligence and critical thinking skills. Ain't that right, HeHe? Just proof that you're the ones who'll believe anything you read. All you're missing now "Janice" is a YouTube cartoon, or two.:-)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8753 Jun 3, 2012
The sand man wrote:
Ive been reading posts the last few days and I still don't understand why when you leave a church and you can't leave it alone after you leave. It boggles my mind. It appears that some things the old men say are true....
Well I have noticed that some Momrons are a bit thick in the head. Mormonism, it left Christianity, but can't leave Christ alone.
Livinginthelando fcrazy

Ozark, MO

#8754 Jun 3, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>Free your mind Crazy and your a$$ will follow.
My mind is free, and it already does.
LynessaV

Hammonton, NJ

#8755 Jun 3, 2012
You need to follow Christ to be a Christian not some drunk wacko in the U.S. or some English King who disliked the Catholic Church.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8756 Jun 3, 2012
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
What's really funny is the anti's bought your BS from your first "Janice" post. And they think we lack intelligence and critical thinking skills. Ain't that right, HeHe? Just proof that you're the ones who'll believe anything you read. All you're missing now "Janice" is a YouTube cartoon, or two.:-)
I think Janice has gotten you worked up. I don't buy everything, but the info is compelling. Smith's freemason connection is well documented. I don't think you lack intelligence and critical thinking skills(OK, I do with Cary), I think you are blinded by your devotion, your emotional connection with the church. One example of this is your obsession with correct grammar. Even you admit it is a pet peeve. Yet you read the Book of Mormon(I assume) and have no issues with it. It is a hideous read. God help you if you should ever get a hold of a reproduction of the 1st edition, you'll lose your mind.
1 post removed
Livinginthelando fcrazy

Ozark, MO

#8758 Jun 3, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>I think Janice has gotten you worked up. I don't buy everything, but the info is compelling. Smith's freemason connection is well documented. I don't think you lack intelligence and critical thinking skills(OK, I do with Cary), I think you are blinded by your devotion, your emotional connection with the church. One example of this is your obsession with correct grammar. Even you admit it is a pet peeve. Yet you read the Book of Mormon(I assume) and have no issues with it. It is a hideous read. God help you if you should ever get a hold of a reproduction of the 1st edition, you'll lose your mind.
I like "Janice," she and her passive aggressive posts are fun. A little long winded, and what I do read, before my eyes go numb, make me laugh. I do hope she/he stays awhile.
Livinginthelando fcrazy

Ozark, MO

#8759 Jun 3, 2012
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>I like "Janice," she and her passive aggressive posts are fun. A little long winded, and what I do read, before my eyes go numb, make me laugh. I do hope she/he stays awhile.
At least before the cancer eats what's left of her.:-)

Since: Jun 12

Herndon, VA

#8760 Jun 3, 2012
The sand man wrote:
Ive been reading posts the last few days and ... It appears that some things the old men say are true....
I am still a Mormon and I still go to Church. In fact, Sacrament meeting started at 9:00AM EST. I did leave early, so I missed Relief Society. Nevertheless, you are correct, what the Brethren say is true, and this has always been so.

Janice' Sacred Prayer of Thanksgiving to all Mormon Revelations:

"Lord, we thank thee for Mormon Prophets and Mormon Apostles for their prophesies have been great. To give thanks, I shall name a few such prophesies and their outcomes:

Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5, 31: The prophecy, given Sept. 1832, says a temple would be built on the temple lot in Jackson County, Missouri "in this generation." A century and a half has passed and yet no temple has been built. Compare the prophecy with comments about it in these Journal of Discourses volumes; Vol. 10, page 344; Vol. 11, page 269; Vol. 13, page 138 and 362; and Vol. 17, page 111.

Doctrine and Covenants 97:19: The prophecy says that "Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place...." But, Zion was moved from Jackson County, Missouri. D&C 101:17-21 says "...there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed;..." Salt Lake City cannot be Zion.

Doctrine and Covenants 114:1: This prophecy, given in 1838 by Joseph Smith, says that David W. Patten, one of the twelve apostles, was to perform a mission in the Spring of 1839. However, the History of the Church, Vol. 3, Page 175, tell us that David W. Patten died in October of 1838! His mission could not be performed in the spirit world, as some Mormons say, because the prophecy states that he will accompany the eleven other apostles "...into all the world."

Doctrine and Covenants 117:12: The prophecy says that the name of Oliver Granger would be held "in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord." But, who is Oliver Granger? Why have most Mormons never heard of him?

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, page 219: Heber C. Kimball said on September 6, 1856, that, "The Church and kingdom to which we belong will become the kingdom of our God and his Christ, and brother Brigham Young will become President of the United States... and I am Vice-President, and brother Wells is the Secretary of the Interior -- yes, and of all the armies in the flesh... You may think I am joking; but I am perfectly willing that brother Long should write every word of it; for I can see it just as naturally as I can see the earth and the productions thereof."

History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182: Joseph Smith said in 1835, "...it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh -- even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." Jesus did not come in 1891!"

In the name of the Lord of Lights, even the Mormon God, Amen.

-Now for a Promise!-

Although I've presented historical facts, I urge you to follow the advice of Moroni. Go ahead, ask the Lord if he can change history. Mormon leadership has been busy white washing history these last couple of years, so if God gave them permission to do that, then he will certainly give you permission to do the same, Amen, God bless you.

“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

“And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.”

Since: Jun 12

Herndon, VA

#8761 Jun 3, 2012
Be right back, the Mr. is coming home soon, I need to freshen up the old kitty and shock her to life again. I'm not sure what it is, but lately I've had a terrible case of clitty litter.

God Bless Joseph Smith so that he can bless God thereby re-blessing Joseph Smith who will then bless my old lady parts.

Since: Jun 12

Herndon, VA

#8762 Jun 3, 2012
Interesting find:

Did you know that Greek Philosophers spoke of various Books of Abraham and Books of Moses?

From Wikipedia:

"Philo (20 BCE – 50 CE), known also as Philo of Alexandria, Philo Judaeus, Philo Judaeus of Alexandria, Yedidia, "Philon", and Philo the Jew, was a Hellenistic Jewish Biblical philosopher born in Alexandria."

From Philo's Book: "Philo, Vol. 6. On Abraham, On Joseph, On Moses"

This English translation of the above philosophy o Philo. This should be very appealing to those Mormons who still support the "white horse theory" still support Mittens for president.
"For Moses, through God's providence,
became king and lawgiver and high priest and
prophet; and in each function he won the highest place. But why it is fitting that they should all be combined in the same person needs explanation.
It is a king's duty to command what is right
and forbid what is wrong. But to command what
should be done and to forbid what should not be
done is the peculiar function of law ; so that it
follows at once that the king is a living law, and the law a just king.a But a king and lawgiver ought to have under his purview not only human but divine things; for, without God's directing care, the affairs of kings and subjects cannot go aright. And therefore such as he needs the chief priest-hood, so that, fortified with perfect rites and the perfect knowledge of the service of God, he may ask that he and those whom he rules may receive prevention of evil and participation in good from the gracious Being Who assents to prayers. For surely that Being will grant fulfillment to prayers, seeing that He is kindly by nature and deems worthy of His special favor those who give Him genuine service. But, since to this king, lawgiver and high priest who, though possessed of so generous a heritage of fortune's gifts, is after all but a mortal creature, countless things both human and divine are wrapped in obscurity, Moses necessarily obtained prophecy also, in order that through the providence of God he might discover what by reasoning he could not grasp. For prophecy finds its way to what the mind fails to reach. Beautiful and all-harmonious is the union of these four faculties; for, intertwined and clinging to each other, they move in rhythmic concord, mutually receiving and repaying benefits, and thus imitate the virgin Graces whom an immutable law of nature forbids to be separated."

That's right Good old esoteric Christianity and esoteric Freemasonry combine to form ... Mormon Theocracy; welcome to the self-fulfilling of Joseph Smith's wet dream. Right, Joseph Smith only wanted everyone in the world to subject to his power, that's why he anointed himself "King of the Earth" and "King of Israel" in the meeting called the "Council of Fifty" and this is why Mormons believe that Joseph Smith is the "King and Ruler of the Afterlife" and this is why Joseph Fielding Smith said:

"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it." D&C 135:3

Oh yes, Philo spoke to Freemasons who spoke to Joseph Smith who spoke to his "delusional mind-gams" who spoke to Joseph who told Joseph that he should be the rightful king of Israel and the Spirit world. So, here we are just months before we have a new Moses representing Mormon belief. The good thing is that at least the Mormon Church already knows that is what the world needs, I mean they already asked God. Even though Mormons represent less than 0.008% of the US population, and even though Mormon membership is rapidly declining so that in a few years Mormons will represent even less than than 0.0003% of US population, Mittens STILL knows whats best for you and everyone in your family. You all just need a good dose of Mormon priesthood, Mormon theocracy, and Mormon Zionism.

And they all lived happily ever after under the Mormon Jesus and King Joseph Smith the minister of Science, Amen.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#8763 Jun 3, 2012
janicefeather wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure I heard this story from the nice news ladies correctly, but let me tell you what I know about education vs. leadership and other social movements.
Lets see if I can remember, sometimes this frail brain doesn't work like it use to; oh yes, there it is:
Celebrities, Chefs, & Business Owners without college degrees that did quite a bit more writing and analyzing and acting and artist creations than Joseph Smith could have ever imagined:
Halle Berry, Abraham Lincoln, Amancio Ortega Gaona, John D. Rockefeller, Julie Andrews, Sean Connery, Simon Cowell, Walt Disney, Dave Thomas, Michael j. Fox, Rachael Ray, Wolfgang Puck
and...
S. Daniel Abraham, billionaire founder of Slim-Fast. Joined the Army at the age of 18 and fought in Europe during World War II. Did not attend college.
Roman Abramovich, richest man in Russia, billionaire. Dropped out of college. He studied at the Moscow State Auto Transport Institute before taking a leave of absence from academics to go into business. He later earned a correspondence degree from the Moscow State Law Academy.
Abigail Adams, U.S. first lady. Home schooled.
Ansel Adams, photographer. Dropped out of high school.
Bryan Adams, singer, songwriter. High school dropout.
Calpernia Adams, showgirl, transsexual. Never attended college. As she noted,“My parents thought that college leads you away from God, so they hadn't saved any money.”
Sandy Adams, U.S. congressperson. Dropped out of high school at the age of 17 to join the Air Force. Later got her GED and attended the police academy before being hired as a deputy sheriff.
Gautam Adani, commodities billionaire from India. Dropped out of college.
Adele, aka Adele Laurie Blue Adkins, singer and songwriter. Intended to go to college but got signed to a recording deal just after her high school graduation.
Sheldon Adelson, billionaire casino owner. Dropped out of City College of New York to become a court reporter. He made his first fortune doing trade shows.
Mortimer Adler, author, educator, editor. Left high school at the age of 15 to work. Later received his high school equivalency degree and attended Columbia University.
Ferran Adria, chef. Has been called the world's greatest chef. Did not finish high school.
Miguel Adrover, fashion designer. High school dropout.
Ben Affleck, actor, screenwriter. Left the University of Vermont after one semester; then dropped out of Occidental College to pursue acting.
You didn't respond to the statement. You deflected an answer with a bunch of crap I could have posted to find something ill against my own points. Like the fact the only other book written by a single individual that could be compared to the BOM is the Koran authored by Muhammad.
But since you claim such an educational back ground in writing, you should have willingly responded to my post and not deflected from it.
So here is my question again. Exempting Muhammad, name me a single person who has written a book as Smith did that his enemies 180 years later hold up and say..."See how easy it is to write a book about a people on a far away continent that began on another?" This book has to begin with an actual country that exists with actual cities that still exist as it was began with in the BOM.
Now either you have knowledge of this celebrated BOM compared author or, they don't exist.
Next, I would like to hear your explanation of the following since you want people to believe you have the answers for Smith that others don't have.
An ancient form of Hebrew poetry called Chiasmus used by Hebrew writers was discovered in the Bible the 20th century. This form of Hebrew poetry has been discovered in the BOM.
How did Smith know about an ancient form of Hebrew poetry that wouldn't be discovered till after his death and how did he know how to use it correctly?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8764 Jun 3, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
It's very easy:
www.mormon.org
You are so deep within the cult that you cannot tell the difference between research and propaganda.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8765 Jun 3, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text> No darlin' I'm not Ms.Cary and I have never even been close to SLC. I'm from NC. I'm not ashamed of anything. Not ashamed to be Mormon, not ashamed to be an opinionated woman and not ashamed of my choices, even the bad ones. I own them all.
Ms. Cary, stop hiding what you are and who you are behind a facade of darlin's. No one is your darlin' here and no one believes you. You have zero credibility and lots of anger, defensiveness and resentment.

None of which is a surprise.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8766 Jun 3, 2012
Janice wrote:
Also, for those wondering how this relates to my earlier posts, well the ESOTERIC Freemasons of the 1700s, before Joseph Smith's time, absorbed and then taught the idea that the "dark rites" of ancient Egypt were in fact the rites to the Melchezidek priesthoods. For those who didn't know, once a man turns 18 in the Mormon church he will receive this priesthood, its the same priesthood that Mitt Romney holds. So can Mitt Romney turn water into gold through alchemy? If so, then vote for him, maybe that's what he's getting at with his campaigning but just can't tell us yet; only time will tell.
Please excuse my poor grammar, word choice, and writing style; I am trying to put these posts together in a rush while I work on a book about the occult-Mormon connection.
Mutt Romputz's favorite novel is Battlefield Earth by L Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology. He is nuts, the other one is nuts and neither of them are fit to be POTUS.

In Mutt's last year in office as Governor of Massachusetts his popularity rating was 34% the 3rd lowest in the country. Obviously they didn't think he was fit to be GOM so he certainly isn't fit to be POTUS.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8767 Jun 3, 2012
Mormonism and Scientology.

"Mormons, Scientologists face uphill battle against Wikileaks

....Can Mormon women wear pants when visiting a temple? Can men wear cummerbunds during a marriage ceremony? Are vasectomies an appropriate birth control option? The answers to these (no, no, and not really) and similar questions about Mormon practice and leadership might not seem to be especially secret, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't pleased about secret church documents hitting the Internet. In this case, the cause of the displeasure is the confidential Church Handbook of Instructions, published by Wikileaks on April 16. The church is currently trying to get the information pulled down using copyright infringement notices, but Wikileaks doesn't respond to such requests. The church has turned instead to targeting other sites that host or link the handbook. "

Why is everything so secretive? What are they hiding?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8768 Jun 3, 2012
Why can't Mormon women wear pants when visiting a temple? What's wrong with a cummerbund...I mean, good God, a cummerbund?

Really?

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#8769 Jun 3, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Ms. Cary, stop hiding what you are and who you are behind a facade of darlin's. No one is your darlin' here and no one believes you. You have zero credibility and lots of anger, defensiveness and resentment.
None of which is a surprise.
Who the hell is Ms. Cary and why would I be angry???

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#8770 Jun 3, 2012
janicefeather wrote:
Okay, I'm all set and ready to discuss more fun topics. But let me ask "No Surprise" should I link more names? That's all I could think of given my lady brain is so old. I just remembered a list of uneducated successful people, but this one is more than 1,000 names long and covers world history from now all the back to Joesph Smith's time. Let me know if you need the list for your research, I wouldn't want you listening to your current church leadership who will tell you, "Poppy COCK! Joseph Smith was a mere child, and idiot, heck, he probably didn't even know what it meant to not know that he didn't know anything, He COULDN'T HAVE written the Book of Mormon, IMPOSSIBLE." I guess they are right in one sense, but lets see what Mark Twain said about the Book of Mormon; he's a pretty good guy, and perhaps this might secure a few more nails into the coffin where your argument lays right now. I figured 400 nails were enough, but this is just to make sure:
Mormon History
Mark Twain on the BOM - 1861
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it." Page 85

"Hid up" is good. And so is "wherefore"--though why "wherefore"? Any other word would have answered as well--though--in truth it would not have sounded so Scriptural.
You left out a few statements of Twains concerning his looking over the BOM.
"Some people have to have a world of evidence before they can come
anywhere in the neighborhood of believing anything; but for me, when a man tells me that he has "seen the engravings which are upon the plates," and not only that, but an angel was there at the time, and saw him see them, and probably took his receipt for it, I am very far on the road to conviction, no matter whether I ever heard of that man before or not, and even if I do not know the name of the angel, or his nationality either."
"And when I am far on the road to conviction, and eight men, be they grammatical or otherwise, come forward and tell me that they have seen the plates too; and not only seen those plates but "hefted" them, I am convinced. I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified."
"It seems a pity he did not finish, for after all his dreary former
chapters of commonplace, he stopped just as he was in danger of becoming interesting.
The Mormon Bible is rather stupid and tiresome to read, but there is nothing vicious in its teachings. Its code of morals is unobjectionable--it is "smouched" [Milton] from the New Testament and no credit given."
..........
People have called the Bible stupid and the constitution stupid so a person calling the BOM stupid, even a critic is not surprising. You did note that though Twain was unimpressed with the BOM, the testimonies held a certain fascination for him as credible :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#8771 Jun 3, 2012
janicefeather wrote:
Ahh yes, correct and perfect are not the same words, great point. Remember, I am not here to prove anything. I am only here to provide fair and balanced circumstantial evidence. It's you who must prove that Joseph Smith saw Jesus, Heavenly Father, Holy Ghost, John the Baptist, Enoch, Peter, James, John, other angels and probably a hobbit and forest fairies to boot; why not throw a few goblins in the mix just for the hell of it. God bless you.
Fair and balanced evidence? Plllleeeeeaseeee...lolol. You tried twice to circumvent what Smith said of the German Bible to imply he said things he never stated! Fair and balanced? Yeeahhhrighty! You made a funny and I did laugh! Thank you :)
By the way, I'm not contending Smith to be right or wrong but you have been supplying evidence to prove Smith is contrary to what his church teaches of him. So I can challenge your statements and it's up to you to prove them :)

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