Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 222780 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120875 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>My take on quantum mechanics is that it seems to defy the known laws of physics. Of course it doesn't assume a deity, but it deepens the mystery of what we think we know.
Um, quantum mechanics *is* part of the 'known laws of physics'. What it violates is our intuitions based upon classical physics. But classical physics is demonstrably wrong. That is why quantum mechanics was formulated in the first place: because classical notions were turning out to be wrong.

Since quantum mechanics violates our *intuitions*, some people see it as mysterious. But that sense is usually because they are holding onto some of the *wrong* notions from classical physics: such as causality, or that objects have definite properties at all times. If you attempt to understand quantum theory using notions from classical physics, you are guaranteed to fail. That is at least in part because classical physics is wrong.

The mystery, such as it is, is why classical notions are so useful above the atomic level. That was an issue that bothered Einstein and Bohr for a good part of their lives. But even that has been resolved using the quantum idea of decoherence.

One word of caution. There is a LOT of very poor 'explanations' of quantum mechanics out there. There are a LOT of overly dramatic descriptions of 'issues' of quantum mechanics. Every single one of those that I have found is attempting to understand QM from a classical viewpoint. They either want to assume that objects are only in one place at a time, or that objects have definite properties at all times, or some other classical (and intuitive) notions that actual experiments show to be wrong. And yet QM describes these experiments quite well. And *that* is why classical physics was replaced by quantum physics.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120876 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>I'll put it as plainly as I can. As I see it, It is reasonable to assume that primordial life had the instincts of fear, and the need to defend itself, thus an instinct for survival.
Do plants have such a feeling of fear? Do fungi? Do bacteria? No. Those feelings are products of the nervous systems of animals. But animals are far from being the only type of life on Earth.
Abiogenesis demonstrates none of those traits. Therefore it is not an adequate replication or explanation of the original life process.
But it *does* describe how the regulation of internal state arises and *that* is sufficient.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120877 Aug 27, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
DNA carries information, where did it come from?
From the interaction of the chemicals that produced it. Every causal interaction produces information.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#120878 Aug 27, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
Larry seems pretty harmless. I've been accused of much worse from Creationists of various stripes everything from my politics, sexual orientation (in the crudest forms imaginable), gender, race, religion, age, and even for some reason hair-color (red-headed step-child?). It's fun when they sputter and say many of the things you would assume their religion tells that is a sin. It's either the supposed anonymity of the Internet or their assumption is instant forgiveness from one deity or another that makes them say things in here they would never say face-to-face.
Worse than death threats? Wow.

I too have had some pretty horrendous verbals from creatards and they don’t usually bother me, except in 2 cases... verbal abuse and use of children counts as child abuse and death threats

I realise that his death threat was uttered from the sanctity of both the anonymous internet and his babble. Does that mean making death threats is the decent christian thing to do? Nope it just makes him a coward in the name of his god.

And of course, pointing out his cowardice and his abuse of his own god belief is my fun

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#120879 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Here we go again! I don't have a "god". Pay attention!
If there is anything I dislike more than a hyper-religious zealot, it is a "holier-than-thou" atheist.
So you have no answer to my question... fair enough. If there is anything in this world I dislike more than a created of little inelegance it is a deliberately ignorant hate merchant of even less intelligence who is too much of a coward to even admit that he cannot answer a simple question that he himself instigated.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120880 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Good points. But I do think we need to be open enough, and humble enough to consider, that while science should continue its pursuit, any "ultimate' answer may be beyond the reach of science. Please understand that in my saying this, I am not suggesting a religious alternative.
Like deGrasse Tyson, I would have any problem you invoking god or suggesting a religious alternative.
I only would point you out to the dangers of it, because invoking god tends to close minds and abandon further research.

But, assessed by your posts, I don't think that would happen to you easily though.
And I do agree when you say that eventually, even after centuries of scientific endeavour, there still could be questions left that exceed our mental proficiency.

Our brains and mental proficiency are evolved because they brought higher survival and reproduction chances to the early hominids in the particular habitat (environment) they were living in. Our brains and mental proficiency are not particularly evolved to understand the universe. Maybe reality comes in dimensions beyond our mental framework. As the dimensions we do fully understand and even take as granted were beyond the mental framework of apes or early hominids. Maybe that's the reason that we know that the universe contains dark matter and dark energy - by unexplained but yet observable interferences with gravity. Until now we have not a single clue what dark energy and matter actually is. Maybe in a decade or two someone pops up with some brilliant solution or explains it away by a shift in paradigm. Or some unexpected observation.

But, nevertheless, our mental proficiency IS restricted.
Somewhere we indeed could well bump into principally unresolvable problems.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#120881 Aug 27, 2014
inbred Genius wrote:
I don't believe in reincarnation, but I did in a previous life.
Lol. I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120882 Aug 27, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
you did nothing but give an opinion.
No I didn't, I pointed you out to the state of affairs in geology. If I was rendering an ""opinion", it was the "opinion" of geology of the last millennium.

The nonsense you wrote was already addressed by the Chinese polymath Shen Kuo (1031–1095) who formulated a hypothesis for the process of land formation: based on his observation of fossil animal shells in a geological stratum in a mountain hundreds of miles from the ocean, he inferred that the land was formed by erosion of the mountains and by deposition of silt.

Islamic Scholar Ibn Sina (Avicenna, 981–1037) wrote: "Either mountains are the effects of upheavals of the crust of the earth, such as might occur during a violent earthquake, or they are the effect of water, which, cutting itself a new route, has denuded the ancient valleys, the strata being of different kinds, some soft, some hard ... It would require a long period of time for all such changes to be accomplished, during which the mountains themselves might be somewhat diminished in size".

After having shed the Christian caboodle after the Middle Ages, science also emerged in Europe. After Nicolas Steno (1638–1686) formulated the defining principles of stratigraphy, geology ad a start in Europe. James Hutton is often viewed as the first true modern geologist. He explained the Earth must be much older than had previously been supposed in order to allow enough time for mountains to be eroded and for sediments to form new rocks at the bottom of the sea, which in turn were raised up to become dry land.

Hence, since a millennium we know that one of the most profound geological processes known is EROSION.

Got the picture?
Not my opinion, observations of geology of the last millennium.

For good sake, STOP TATTLING ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NOT THE FAINTEST UNDERSTANDING OF.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120883 Aug 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol. I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
How do you combat ignorance and apathy?

I don't know and I don't care.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#120884 Aug 27, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
The "Creator" that created himself out of nothing for no good reason? How did that work exactly?
The scriptures indicate that the ha shamayim (heavens) were bara (increased or made more substantial) by God (power) IN the beginning. Jesus taught that the kingdom of heaven began very small and then became great and things came to the branches of it.

Since: Oct 08

Alpharetta, GA

#120885 Aug 27, 2014
so are you guys suggesting that God did not create the earth, and rested on the 7th day?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#120886 Aug 27, 2014
inbred Genius wrote:
so are you guys suggesting that God did not create the earth, and rested on the 7th day?
Why would God -- an omnipotent being -- need to "rest" at all?

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#120887 Aug 27, 2014
inbred Genius wrote:
so are you guys suggesting that God did not create the earth, and rested on the 7th day?
So are you suggesting god?
FREE SERVANT

United States

#120888 Aug 27, 2014
inbred Genius wrote:
so are you guys suggesting that God did not create the earth, and rested on the 7th day?
Some see the scriptures as saying God made the heavens and the earth what it was to become in a day, and the first six days were when he saw that his work was good and then he rested on the seventh day.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#120889 Aug 27, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Some see the scriptures as saying God made the heavens and the earth what it was to become in a day, and the first six days were when he saw that his work was good and then he rested on the seventh day.
Mere interpretation.

The book (kjv and others) says god dunitwiv magic out of nothing but you never seem to interpret that into your belief for some strange reason
FREE SERVANT

United States

#120890 Aug 27, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Mere interpretation.
The book (kjv and others) says god dunitwiv magic out of nothing but you never seem to interpret that into your belief for some strange reason
He done it with power and Jesus now has all power.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#120891 Aug 27, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you combat ignorance and apathy?
I don't know and I don't care.
I promised myself that one of these days I'll stop procrastinating.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#120892 Aug 27, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I promised myself that one of these days I'll stop procrastinating.
Did you promise yourself to quit promising yourself?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#120893 Aug 27, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Did you promise yourself to quit promising yourself?
Some day.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#120894 Aug 27, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Some day.
When someday comes I guess?

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