Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50363 Oct 4, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
Yes, the fundamentalists would like to see all those who disagree with them dead. Period.
Lest anyone accuse water_nymph of exaggerating, one of Pat Robertson's plans as Presidential candidate was to send certain groups of citizens to death camps.
President Bush didn't try to kill religious skeptics, but he tried to take away their voting rights. Too bad the press didn't cooperate with him, like they did with Hitler.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#50364 Oct 4, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> AL has not progressed to this point yet, I have no doubt it eventually will. But will anyone be ready for it when it does?
That's what that episode was about. It could be sooner than we think.
It would be interesting wouldn't it?

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#50365 Oct 4, 2012
davy wrote:
Atheism kills brains dead.
<quoted text>
Well...in your case...probably...but then you haven't "evolved" to a full human...therefore the missing link...

Evolution...so easy a davy could do it...LOL!

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50366 Oct 4, 2012
HTS quoted Dr. Provine as quoting Darwin as saying: "1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent."

Assuming that Darwin said that, what of it?

Martin Luther wanted his followers to go out with torches and burn down all the Jewish homesteads in the neighborhood.
Does that mean that that is what all Lutherans today would like to do?

Verdi was an atheist, so I guess no one can play the march from Aida without being an atheist.
Wagner hated Jews, so I guess no one can play Here Comes the Bride without hating Jews.
Kurt Weill was a Communist, so I guess no one can sing Mack the Knife's theme song without being a Communist.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50367 Oct 4, 2012
anonymous, what exactly is your point?
Are all Evolutionists advocates of the let-them-eat-cake attitude just because Spancer, and supposedly Darwin, were?
That's a rather hasty conclusion. Peter Kropotkin noticed such an attitude on the part of other Evolutionists, and replied with a book entitled Mutual Aid and Mutual Comfort. Furthermore, his book is replete with naturalistic observations.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50368 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare, could you please explain in a little more detail why werewolves, vampires, and zombies would prove Evolutionary theory?
I'm afraid I don't quite follow.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#50369 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
HTS quoted Dr. Provine as quoting Darwin as saying: "1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent."
Assuming that Darwin said that, what of it?
Martin Luther wanted his followers to go out with torches and burn down all the Jewish homesteads in the neighborhood.
Does that mean that that is what all Lutherans today would like to do?
Verdi was an atheist, so I guess no one can play the march from Aida without being an atheist.
Wagner hated Jews, so I guess no one can play Here Comes the Bride without hating Jews.
Kurt Weill was a Communist, so I guess no one can sing Mack the Knife's theme song without being a Communist.
Thomas, I dont believe HTS posted that Dr. Provine was QUOTING Darwin as saying that. Provine is an avowed atheist, and those quotes were Dr. Provine's own opinions.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50370 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad that Charlemagne didn't claim to have a vision upon which were inscibed the words CONQUER FOR CHRIST.
I'm glad that Toquemada didn't burn 2000 people at the stake during the Spanish Inquisition.
I'm glad that Cotton Mather didn't hang suspected witches on the flimsiest of evidence.
I'm glad that the Catholics and Protestants didn't fight each other from 1618 to 1648.
I'm glad that the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland have never fought each other.
And I'm certainly glad that the United States, this great and wonderful Christian nation of ours, has never threatened innocent civilians in such countries as Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan.
Methinks that your adopted family is watching over you! ;)

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#50371 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Knightmare, could you please explain in a little more detail why werewolves, vampires, and zombies would prove Evolutionary theory?
I'm afraid I don't quite follow.
Blatant strawman attempt by him.

Amigo, when is the public holiday? The tenth, right?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50372 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
anonymous, what exactly is your point?
Are all Evolutionists advocates of the let-them-eat-cake attitude just because Spancer, and supposedly Darwin, were?
That's a rather hasty conclusion. Peter Kropotkin noticed such an attitude on the part of other Evolutionists, and replied with a book entitled Mutual Aid and Mutual Comfort. Furthermore, his book is replete with naturalistic observations.
Har! Darwin wasn't a "Let them eat cake" kind of person. He had to completely temper his language as to avoid being condemned by the Church. I'm not familiar with Spancer, but I'm only referring to modern proponents of Evolution and I really don't separate them from the majority of people who have to have to contend with modern media. Evolution is just one of those topics that is being forced into a political wedge issue, and that will result in bad science.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50373 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
Why would people think we aren't designed?
---because an Intelligent Designer would create us in our present form in the first place, rather than sending us through millions of years of evolution.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not clutter up our bodies with vestigial organs and junk DNA.
---because an Intelligent Designer would endow us with ideal optical organs, like those possessed by the squid.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not make human women suffer childbirth pains more intensely than do female quadrupeds.
---because an Intelligent Designer would recognize that a duodecimal system would be more efficient than a decimal system, and therefore endow us with six fingers on each hand rather than only five.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not leave us with inner brains which disturb the intended work of the outer brain.
---because an Intelligent Designer would design male heterosexuality and female heterosexuality as exact opposites of each other, so that there would be less misunderstanding between men and women.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50374 Oct 4, 2012
anonymous wrote:
"Unfortunately, people preaching Evolution rarely do observe scientific method."

I have a couple of comments in addition to those which Gillette made.

Firstly, only a small fraction of scientists who accept Evolutionary theory seem to preach it. Those few who are visible to us--Gould, Dawkins, Gardner, Sagan, Pigliucci--may give us the impression that all Evolutionist scientists are on the march.
But the fact is that most Evolutionary scientists are all wrapped up in their lab work and don't give a hoot in hades what the rest of us think.

Secondly, a conversion to Evolutionary theory is quite different from a religious conversion. Of those Evolutionist Crusaders mentioned above, I have been acquainted with only one, and that is Piliucci. He said that he has won very few if any instant converts. Rather, he has occasionally had a member of the audience come up to him with a few questions after the debate. He would give the person a suggested bibliography and send a few letters back and forth before the person would finally grasp the concept.

If Evolutionist speakers conducted their meetings with choir singing and altar calls, I would tend to agree with you.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50375 Oct 4, 2012
greymouser wrote:
Harry Potter, who saved the virgin Hermione, will be known as the divine savior of the world in a few hundred years.
I thought it was Ginny Weasley that he saved from Voldemort.
But I could be wrong.
We'd both better get our facts right, because it's every bit as important to know our Harry Potter as it is for us to know our Bible.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50376 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
anonymous wrote:
"Unfortunately, people preaching Evolution rarely do observe scientific method."
I have a couple of comments in addition to those which Gillette made.
Firstly, only a small fraction of scientists who accept Evolutionary theory seem to preach it. Those few who are visible to us--Gould, Dawkins, Gardner, Sagan, Pigliucci--may give us the impression that all Evolutionist scientists are on the march.
But the fact is that most Evolutionary scientists are all wrapped up in their lab work and don't give a hoot in hades what the rest of us think.
Secondly, a conversion to Evolutionary theory is quite different from a religious conversion. Of those Evolutionist Crusaders mentioned above, I have been acquainted with only one, and that is Piliucci. He said that he has won very few if any instant converts. Rather, he has occasionally had a member of the audience come up to him with a few questions after the debate. He would give the person a suggested bibliography and send a few letters back and forth before the person would finally grasp the concept.
If Evolutionist speakers conducted their meetings with choir singing and altar calls, I would tend to agree with you.
I'm not really thinking about scientists as much as political activists. Preaching facts probably sounds silly to any professional scientist. Facts stand on their own. Evolution is a theory based on facts but it doesn't really compel you to change your behavior in any way.

The problem, I'm sure, is that most scientists don't want to put their careers at risk by allowing themselves to be turned into mouthpieces by political types. However, in places such as this forum, you kind of invite it upon yourself, eh?

I don't like seeing lighting strike near me. I'd rather bleed off those charges before anything that could be interpreted as "divine intervention" occurs! ;)

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#50377 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
---because an Intelligent Designer would create us in our present form in the first place, rather than sending us through millions of years of evolution.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not clutter up our bodies with vestigial organs and junk DNA.
---because an Intelligent Designer would endow us with ideal optical organs, like those possessed by the squid.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not make human women suffer childbirth pains more intensely than do female quadrupeds.
---because an Intelligent Designer would recognize that a duodecimal system would be more efficient than a decimal system, and therefore endow us with six fingers on each hand rather than only five.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not leave us with inner brains which disturb the intended work of the outer brain.
---because an Intelligent Designer would design male heterosexuality and female heterosexuality as exact opposites of each other, so that there would be less misunderstanding between men and women.
Um...you do realize that some of that came after the fall right?

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50378 Oct 4, 2012
anonymous wrote:
Don't dodge the political implications. Deal with them!
Thanks for the exhortation, but no thanks.
Like the population at large, the members of the skeptic group in Tennessee abounded in political disagreement.
(Contrary to those on this thread who try to establish that all Evolutionists are Communists.)
I tried to tell them that those on both sides were wasting their time, because neither party will ever take over the world.
Dogs tend to hunt in groups, so dogs are more gregarious than most other animals.
That is why a dog comes wagging his tail when his master comes home.
Cats tend to hunt solo, so cats are less gregarious than most other animals.
That is why a cat DOESN'T come wagging his tail when his master comes home.
If we were dogs, we would all be socialists.
If we were cats, we would all be libertarians.
It so happens, however, that we are simians, and simians hunt in groups some and hunt solo some.
That is why we run the whole gamut.

PS This is off the subject, but I would like to vote for any minor party candidate who promises to get out of Afghanistan.
If you know of such a candidate, please reply quick, so I can send in for an absentee ballot.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#50379 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Um...you do realize that some of that came after the fall right?
Meaning what?

Not your deity's doing?

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50380 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
Um...you do realize that some of that came after the fall right?
Oh, so that's it!
Then please dig me up a pre-Precipitate fossil.
I'd like to see one.

Duane Gish tells us that all animals are vegetarians before the Fall.
But every picture of a carnivorous dinosaur that I have ever seen had a proportionately larger head and sharper teeth.

If you can find a pre-Precipitate tyrannosaurus, I'd like to see that too.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#50381 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, so that's it!
Then please dig me up a pre-Precipitate fossil.
I'd like to see one.
Duane Gish tells us that all animals are vegetarians before the Fall.
But every picture of a carnivorous dinosaur that I have ever seen had a proportionately larger head and sharper teeth.
If you can find a pre-Precipitate tyrannosaurus, I'd like to see that too.
Double Fine found one!

AND, it's teeth were flat! True story!

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

UK

#50382 Oct 4, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Running from what?
The arguments Christian creation that didn't involve evolution or that tried to defend evolutionů
You haven't forgotten them have you, there's only three.

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