Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 171599 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#50371 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Knightmare, could you please explain in a little more detail why werewolves, vampires, and zombies would prove Evolutionary theory?
I'm afraid I don't quite follow.
Blatant strawman attempt by him.

Amigo, when is the public holiday? The tenth, right?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50372 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
anonymous, what exactly is your point?
Are all Evolutionists advocates of the let-them-eat-cake attitude just because Spancer, and supposedly Darwin, were?
That's a rather hasty conclusion. Peter Kropotkin noticed such an attitude on the part of other Evolutionists, and replied with a book entitled Mutual Aid and Mutual Comfort. Furthermore, his book is replete with naturalistic observations.
Har! Darwin wasn't a "Let them eat cake" kind of person. He had to completely temper his language as to avoid being condemned by the Church. I'm not familiar with Spancer, but I'm only referring to modern proponents of Evolution and I really don't separate them from the majority of people who have to have to contend with modern media. Evolution is just one of those topics that is being forced into a political wedge issue, and that will result in bad science.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50373 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
Why would people think we aren't designed?
---because an Intelligent Designer would create us in our present form in the first place, rather than sending us through millions of years of evolution.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not clutter up our bodies with vestigial organs and junk DNA.
---because an Intelligent Designer would endow us with ideal optical organs, like those possessed by the squid.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not make human women suffer childbirth pains more intensely than do female quadrupeds.
---because an Intelligent Designer would recognize that a duodecimal system would be more efficient than a decimal system, and therefore endow us with six fingers on each hand rather than only five.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not leave us with inner brains which disturb the intended work of the outer brain.
---because an Intelligent Designer would design male heterosexuality and female heterosexuality as exact opposites of each other, so that there would be less misunderstanding between men and women.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50374 Oct 4, 2012
anonymous wrote:
"Unfortunately, people preaching Evolution rarely do observe scientific method."

I have a couple of comments in addition to those which Gillette made.

Firstly, only a small fraction of scientists who accept Evolutionary theory seem to preach it. Those few who are visible to us--Gould, Dawkins, Gardner, Sagan, Pigliucci--may give us the impression that all Evolutionist scientists are on the march.
But the fact is that most Evolutionary scientists are all wrapped up in their lab work and don't give a hoot in hades what the rest of us think.

Secondly, a conversion to Evolutionary theory is quite different from a religious conversion. Of those Evolutionist Crusaders mentioned above, I have been acquainted with only one, and that is Piliucci. He said that he has won very few if any instant converts. Rather, he has occasionally had a member of the audience come up to him with a few questions after the debate. He would give the person a suggested bibliography and send a few letters back and forth before the person would finally grasp the concept.

If Evolutionist speakers conducted their meetings with choir singing and altar calls, I would tend to agree with you.

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50375 Oct 4, 2012
greymouser wrote:
Harry Potter, who saved the virgin Hermione, will be known as the divine savior of the world in a few hundred years.
I thought it was Ginny Weasley that he saved from Voldemort.
But I could be wrong.
We'd both better get our facts right, because it's every bit as important to know our Harry Potter as it is for us to know our Bible.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50376 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
anonymous wrote:
"Unfortunately, people preaching Evolution rarely do observe scientific method."
I have a couple of comments in addition to those which Gillette made.
Firstly, only a small fraction of scientists who accept Evolutionary theory seem to preach it. Those few who are visible to us--Gould, Dawkins, Gardner, Sagan, Pigliucci--may give us the impression that all Evolutionist scientists are on the march.
But the fact is that most Evolutionary scientists are all wrapped up in their lab work and don't give a hoot in hades what the rest of us think.
Secondly, a conversion to Evolutionary theory is quite different from a religious conversion. Of those Evolutionist Crusaders mentioned above, I have been acquainted with only one, and that is Piliucci. He said that he has won very few if any instant converts. Rather, he has occasionally had a member of the audience come up to him with a few questions after the debate. He would give the person a suggested bibliography and send a few letters back and forth before the person would finally grasp the concept.
If Evolutionist speakers conducted their meetings with choir singing and altar calls, I would tend to agree with you.
I'm not really thinking about scientists as much as political activists. Preaching facts probably sounds silly to any professional scientist. Facts stand on their own. Evolution is a theory based on facts but it doesn't really compel you to change your behavior in any way.

The problem, I'm sure, is that most scientists don't want to put their careers at risk by allowing themselves to be turned into mouthpieces by political types. However, in places such as this forum, you kind of invite it upon yourself, eh?

I don't like seeing lighting strike near me. I'd rather bleed off those charges before anything that could be interpreted as "divine intervention" occurs! ;)

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#50377 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
---because an Intelligent Designer would create us in our present form in the first place, rather than sending us through millions of years of evolution.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not clutter up our bodies with vestigial organs and junk DNA.
---because an Intelligent Designer would endow us with ideal optical organs, like those possessed by the squid.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not make human women suffer childbirth pains more intensely than do female quadrupeds.
---because an Intelligent Designer would recognize that a duodecimal system would be more efficient than a decimal system, and therefore endow us with six fingers on each hand rather than only five.
---because an Intelligent Designer would not leave us with inner brains which disturb the intended work of the outer brain.
---because an Intelligent Designer would design male heterosexuality and female heterosexuality as exact opposites of each other, so that there would be less misunderstanding between men and women.
Um...you do realize that some of that came after the fall right?

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50378 Oct 4, 2012
anonymous wrote:
Don't dodge the political implications. Deal with them!
Thanks for the exhortation, but no thanks.
Like the population at large, the members of the skeptic group in Tennessee abounded in political disagreement.
(Contrary to those on this thread who try to establish that all Evolutionists are Communists.)
I tried to tell them that those on both sides were wasting their time, because neither party will ever take over the world.
Dogs tend to hunt in groups, so dogs are more gregarious than most other animals.
That is why a dog comes wagging his tail when his master comes home.
Cats tend to hunt solo, so cats are less gregarious than most other animals.
That is why a cat DOESN'T come wagging his tail when his master comes home.
If we were dogs, we would all be socialists.
If we were cats, we would all be libertarians.
It so happens, however, that we are simians, and simians hunt in groups some and hunt solo some.
That is why we run the whole gamut.

PS This is off the subject, but I would like to vote for any minor party candidate who promises to get out of Afghanistan.
If you know of such a candidate, please reply quick, so I can send in for an absentee ballot.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#50379 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Um...you do realize that some of that came after the fall right?
Meaning what?

Not your deity's doing?

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#50380 Oct 4, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
Um...you do realize that some of that came after the fall right?
Oh, so that's it!
Then please dig me up a pre-Precipitate fossil.
I'd like to see one.

Duane Gish tells us that all animals are vegetarians before the Fall.
But every picture of a carnivorous dinosaur that I have ever seen had a proportionately larger head and sharper teeth.

If you can find a pre-Precipitate tyrannosaurus, I'd like to see that too.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#50381 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, so that's it!
Then please dig me up a pre-Precipitate fossil.
I'd like to see one.
Duane Gish tells us that all animals are vegetarians before the Fall.
But every picture of a carnivorous dinosaur that I have ever seen had a proportionately larger head and sharper teeth.
If you can find a pre-Precipitate tyrannosaurus, I'd like to see that too.
Double Fine found one!

AND, it's teeth were flat! True story!

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

UK

#50382 Oct 4, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Running from what?
The arguments Christian creation that didn't involve evolution or that tried to defend evolutionů
You haven't forgotten them have you, there's only three.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

UK

#50383 Oct 4, 2012
Against Christian creation
I have no idea how that got left out

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

UK

#50384 Oct 4, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Double Fine found one!
AND, it's teeth were flat! True story!
Is this a joke or a genuine claim?
If it's genuine then I'll save Thomas some time and ask for a link and a photo.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#50385 Oct 4, 2012
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this a joke or a genuine claim?
If it's genuine then I'll save Thomas some time and ask for a link and a photo.
It's genuine!

It is at my house. You and any scientist can come see it.

It is on display, next to my Cambrian rabbit
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50386 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the exhortation, but no thanks.
Like the population at large, the members of the skeptic group in Tennessee abounded in political disagreement.
(Contrary to those on this thread who try to establish that all Evolutionists are Communists.)
I tried to tell them that those on both sides were wasting their time, because neither party will ever take over the world.
Dogs tend to hunt in groups, so dogs are more gregarious than most other animals.
That is why a dog comes wagging his tail when his master comes home.
Cats tend to hunt solo, so cats are less gregarious than most other animals.
That is why a cat DOESN'T come wagging his tail when his master comes home.
If we were dogs, we would all be socialists.
If we were cats, we would all be libertarians.
It so happens, however, that we are simians, and simians hunt in groups some and hunt solo some.
That is why we run the whole gamut.
PS This is off the subject, but I would like to vote for any minor party candidate who promises to get out of Afghanistan.
If you know of such a candidate, please reply quick, so I can send in for an absentee ballot.
And I guess if you're part dog and part cat, you're SOL! Hmm.

I don't know why you can't mix libertarian and socialist ideas.

Getting out of Afghanistan is a no-brainer. Obama has dodged the issue by sticking to the Bush plan for withdrawal. The real issue was whether or not we should have been there to begin with. I believe that Colin Powell thought of it as a "You break it, you buy it" political trap. I agree with Colin.

The Middle East is in an artificial state of oil wealth combined with cultural poverty. They can't defend their own borders because they are constantly engaged in internal conflicts. The problem is made worse by oil which external factions want, and are quite ready to destabilize governments to get.

It's a waste of our time. Just engage in surgical strikes when terrorists home-base there. Apologize afterwards, and punish the corporations who disregard U.N. efforts to keep the peace.

My cat is not a tail-wagger. He is a social critter though. When I come home, he's at the door and plays point man as I go up the stairs. My hero! I think the better distinction is that cats don't like to follow alphas. There are exceptions. Lions and (heh!) Smilodons do or did hunt in packs but at least with lions we don't see alpha males leading a hunt.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#50387 Oct 4, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
It's genuine!
It is at my house. You and any scientist can come see it.
It is on display, next to my Cambrian rabbit
Does your Cambrian rabbit carry a cane and answer to the name "Uncle Wiggily"?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#50388 Oct 4, 2012
MazHere wrote:
Evolutionists come up with definitions and change them as suits.
All humans come up with definitions and change them as suits. The nature of language itself is that definitions change over time.
MazHere wrote:
There is no point asking the definition of anything according to evolutionists as they ignore differences and play pick a box of traits that suit.
On the contrary, we do indeed notice differences. And the theory of evolution *explains why* there are differences. It has to do with both reproduction with variation and with natural selection.
MazHere wrote:
An ape is a tailess primate that has a fur coat, uses quadrapedal movement, is unable to make meaning of the world by the use of abstract thought, is not an obligate biped, has 38 chromosomes.
The definition of "ape" does not require a "fur coat", nor "quadrapedal movement", nor the inability to make meaning of the world, nor not being an "obligate biped". Oh, and chimpanzees have 48 chromosomes, not 38. I guess chimps aren't apes, eh?
MazHere wrote:
A human is a primate that does not have a fur coat,is an obligate biped, is able to make meaning of the world through abstract thought and sophisyticated language, has 36 chromosomes.
Then you must not be human. You have 46 chromosomes, not 36.
MazHere wrote:
Indeed a child can spot the odd one out with a human in with a bunch of apes.
A child can identify each species of ape and what makes it unique among all other apes.
Johny

League City, TX

#50389 Oct 4, 2012
Drew Smith,
The information problem of evolution is obvious. How did added function develop in life-forms that are highly coupled from a systems point of view. How improbable is probable? These are the questions that evolutionists can't answer and where their faith sets in.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#50390 Oct 4, 2012
Johny wrote:
Drew Smith,
The information problem of evolution is obvious. How did added function develop in life-forms that are highly coupled from a systems point of view. How improbable is probable? These are the questions that evolutionists can't answer and where their faith sets in.
You confuse knowing every detail with seeing the whole picture. It is not necessary to know exactly why something happens,
but you can see that it did happen. We then try to understand why these things happened. We are pretty close to solving many of these riddles, but the riddles will never end.

So there is no problem with understanding evolution took place, the problem is our questions as to why get ever more complicated and precise. We see the whole picture but as we magnify it more and more. We find more details and inevitably ask more questions.

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