Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

anonymous

Franklin, PA

#47285 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>This is an accepted fact of embryology. If you seriously doubt my claims, I will find a link for you.
Please!

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#47286 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You are correct in that most scientists are theists. They therefore reject the founding assumption of evolution... that of atheism. If they believe in evolution, they reject natural selection as the sole mechanism of evolution.
No, evolution is not based upon atheism. That is clearly a lie on your part. It only disagrees with one silly book in your Bible. Only crazy ass Christians and Muslims think that god was constantly stirring the pot. Sane theist, many of them Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. have no problem with the theory of evolution.
wolverine

Greeley, CO

#47287 Sep 21, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think she has a position. It would have come out by now. Her opinions are all over the place. All that they have in common is that they are always in the form of disagreement. I'm pretty sure that she just likes to be contrarian in order to seem knowledgeable and confident. But if you look closer, you'll notice that her posts are content-free and noncommittal.
Incidentally, I support the Druids as a model for Christianity. What are the Druid views on gays? Or abortion? Who knows, who cares, and that is exactly the point. When the day comes that a person asks, "What is the Christian view on gays and abortion?" then the Druidization of Christianity will be complete, and the rest of us will never have to hear from either the Christians or the Druids.
Havent Seen Hiding Around....I know You Two Talk....Is She OK ??

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47288 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure how you define "scientific research". A book with numerous scientific references is scientific research.

No, it is not. Scientific research is generally published in professional peer review journals. Sanford published his as a pop science book. That is all.'Debunked' is not a strong enough word for the reception the book received in the genetics community.

Actual research has shown that the genome does not work the way he conjectured.

Here is a site that debunks the entire book, chapter by chapter. There are many references in its 68 pages (and a lot of noise from the variety of posters).

http://www.talkrational.org/showthread.php...

Of course Lenski's experiments (and others related to it) is the death knoll for this idea.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#47289 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
None of those examples you've listed requires acceptance of evolution.
Examples don't ever require anything.
HTS wrote:
What you have done is plugged evolution into a predefined paradigm, and it seems to fit. Creative design fits just as well. Tell me specifically how any of those observations could not have been made without acceptance of Darwinism.
Those observations are explained by the theory of evolution.

There is only one supernatural hypothesis possible: a god created the earth to appear that life evolved over deep time. It carefully seeded the earth with stratified fossil evidence, made human chromosome 2 appear to be a fused pair of lower ape chromosome, generated nested hierarchies of ERVs and proteins, and more.

If that god exists, it isn't your god. That god doesn't want to be found. Can't you respect that? I can and do.

You should consider that there may be an afterlife, and get ready for it. How are you going to justify what you've been doing in this life promoting such a cheap and ridiculous god? Say you didn't know better? That would be your fault, since you've been told. Perhaps you have a responsibility not to just glom onto the first myth that was dropped into your crib for the rest of your life without a second (first?) thought. If we have a creator, perhaps we were expected to use the faculties of reason and conscience bequeathed us.

Here's a tip: if we wake up after death, it won't be Jesus that we see, so whatever it is, don't go curling up into the fetal position screaming, "Get thee behind me, Satan!" That will only compound your offense.

I'll see what I can do to try to put in a good word for you, but not if you're on the floor insulting our hosts and calling them demons.

I don't know. But you have no chance of being right. Your best hope is for oblivion after death.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47290 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Why do you persist in making irrelevant comments?

I wanted to make sure you understood what you were claiming. You just admitted that ID was religion. You HAD been claiming it was somehow science. Why the sudden confession?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47291 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> Evolution would predict that homologous structures would be produced by homologous genes... and they clearly are not in many cases. That is a failed prediction of DArwinism and offers strong evidence of intelligent design.

I hope you caught the actual scientific claim that I posted awhile ago. Evolution does not show that to be the case and DOES explain why.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#47292 Sep 21, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think she has a position. It would have come out by now. Her opinions are all over the place. All that they have in common is that they are always in the form of disagreement. I'm pretty sure that she just likes to be contrarian in order to seem knowledgeable and confident. But if you look closer, you'll notice that her posts are content-free and noncommittal.
Incidentally, I support the Druids as a model for Christianity. What are the Druid views on gays? Or abortion? Who knows, who cares, and that is exactly the point. When the day comes that a person asks, "What is the Christian view on gays and abortion?" then the Druidization of Christianity will be complete, and the rest of us will never have to hear from either the Christians or the Druids.
At first, I thought she was young because she seems a bit contradictory. Most kids would move on after a while without gratification though, so who knows?

Like with most people, I probably didn't respond to her in a predictable fashion. I'm used to it. I think I'm a kind of a Johnny Depp personality myself, probably part Native American and fully aware that nobody really cares. I'm not a performer type myself, though. I just tune them all out.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47293 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Nice distraction. The question was... is there scientific evidence of God? I quoted Einstein. He saw scientific evidence of God. You bring up irrelevant arguments that he didn't believe in a personal god, or that he didn't mix God and science. YOu are wrong. Science lead him to believe in some sort of intelligent force.

??? No, just because some scientists believe in god or felt they saw evidence of god does not mean there is scientific evidence of god. It was their opinion and clearly communicated it as such.

Why do you feel the need to portray it in such a dishonest fashion?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#47294 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You obviously have no concept of evolution. You think by attaching a label that you've solved the problem? Evolution does not predict identical endpoints to evolve through independent pathways. Evolution, by universal agreement, is RANDOM.
But natural selection isn't. Thus, parallel evolution.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47295 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Einstein saw evidence of God through science. If you in your twisted logic think that he didn't see evidence of ID, then how could he have concluded that God existed?
YOu think by pulling out the "quote mining" card that you can categorically refute anything I say... How about trying to refute what Einstein said with coherent logic?

No, you are being dishonest. Here is a collection of what Einstein said about god collected on a Christian site:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/eins...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47296 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Give me your defenition of "scientific research" I suppose "Origin of Species" wasn't scientific research?

In his place an time the way he published Origin was quite appropriate and standard. Today scientific research is published in peer review journals and not in pop science books.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47297 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Yet another irrelevant dodge.

Not at all. You want to prove that a scientists philosophy or religion is actually science. When it gets spelled out like that it is obviously absurd. I have religious beliefs, but I don't confuse them with science. When I say I think god exists I do not mean that as a scientific statement.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#47298 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
I know many physicians who feel that same as I do... evolution is worthless and irrelevant to any element of medicine.
So do I. And they're all fundie Christians. What a coincidence.

I would never trust such a physician for a few reasons:

[1] Faith is just plain bad thinking. I need an evidence based thinker - one who is thorough and rigorous in his or her thinking. If you're willing to engage in faith based thinking in one area, you'll do it elsewhere.

[2] You can't trust a Christian to be honest. Look at you. You won't confess to trying to promote Christianity by attacking evolution. You pretend that your objections to evolution are purely scientific - it's not possible, it's not logical, it has no supporting evidence, etc. But everybody knows your real reason.

[3] How can I trust my life to somebody that believes that I belong in hell for being a skeptic, or that physical existence is trivial? Half of the Christians posting here would love most of us dead and suffering. They gloat over it.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47299 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You obviously have no concept of evolution. You think by attaching a label that you've solved the problem? Evolution does not predict identical endpoints to evolve through independent pathways. Evolution, by universal agreement, is RANDOM.

No. MUTATION is random. Evolution has a random element working in it, but that does not make it random. The other (plural) mechanisms of evolution are not random but based on environmental pressures.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47300 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>What's your point? Einstein believed in a God. He said that science lead him to that belief. So your repeated references to the flying spaghetti monster insult the likes of Einstein.

I have not referenced the great and powerful FSM.

You are confused.

I believe in god. I do not believe that belief is science.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#47301 Sep 21, 2012
wolverine wrote:
How Does One Never Bore Of Debating Theory ?
Are You More Comfortable In Speculation, Then Fact ?
Is Life's Experiences Equal To Theory, Or Fact ?
Do We Really Have Ten Fingers And Toes, Or Is It An Illusion ?
I Applaud Those Of You Who Can Spend Countless Hours Philosophizing About Theory......I For One, Am Much More Comfortable In The Real Life Method Of Reality.
I Can End The Recession, Once And For All Sever All Ties With Foreign Oil, Put Millions Back To Work, And Bring Prosperity Back To America....Am I A Genius ?....No.....I Just Have Commonsense.
Sever all ties to foreign oil...instant depression and humongous gas lines.

Put millions back to work...Sure...Where?

Bring prosperity back to America...How? You just put America into a depression by by cutting off foreign oil.

I'll be sure to NOT vote for you if you ever run for political office.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#47302 Sep 21, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I think you're insane to post that. Literally. Not necessarily dangerous or unable to function. But significantly deranged in your thinking to diagnose it as abnormal..
HTS wrote:
Please explain how my non-acceptance of man evolving from a worm is "dangerous".
Why?
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#47303 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You make absurd statements such as "no evidence of God", while ignoring the opinions of the most brilliant scientists in history.
And NONE of them were able to produce any research or empirical evidence for the existence of "god" either.

You will note that the OPERATIVE word in your own assertion is "opinions".

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#47304 Sep 21, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You are correct in that most scientists are theists. They therefore reject the founding assumption of evolution... that of atheism.

Atheism is not the founding assumption of evolution. The observation that life changes over time is the foundation of evolution.
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> If they believe in evolution, they reject natural selection as the sole mechanism of evolution.

NO ONE thinks natural selection is the sole mechanism of evolution.

Descent, Mutation, migration (gene flow), genetic drift, genetic variation, natural selection and coevolution are the mechanisms of evolution that are generally accepted. There are a couple of other in the hypothesis stage.

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