Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#38449 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm afraid that is not correct. It has not been tested, and cannot be tested, on a scale that would be convincing. Most evolutionists don't even know what they are talking about, and so go along with the flow, or have simply been persuaded.
Persuasion is a powerful thing. Why, just look at how many non-scientists, who have no idea what evolution is really about, actually believe in it on faith.(Faith actually means to be persuaded.)
Why do you keep bringing up creationism? I haven't. I don't support creationism. I assert no claims about the origins of life or the universe.
That is just as about as bad assuming I support one political party if I am against another. Bad logic.
And you have not ben simply persuaded to 'go with the flow', huh?
Then please explain to us what you think the theory of e olution is about..., in you own word, not some cut and paste....

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38450 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, there are no Young Earth theories. If believers in a Young Earth came out with even a testable hypothesis evolutionists would have tested it. It would have failed, since YEC's are clearly wrong. The steps in science are observation, creating a workable testable hypothesis, testing that hypothesis, submitting your tested hypothesis in theory form for peer review, and finally peer review rigorously tests your idea and if it passes the test given to it then it can be declared a theory.
Currently in school ALL scientific theories are taught. There are no scientific theories of creationism.
Oh. I wouldn't know. I don't pay much attention to them. You would think the way evolutionist attack them, that they'd have a theory. Mm.

Yes, and by the way, evolution fails all those tests. No observable evidence. And there are no tests. And if you don't think some ideas can graduate to theories despite peer-reviews evidence, think again. The scientific community is just as corruptible as any institution or organization of men. Even more so, because of arrogance.

In a way, science was stolen from the people by aristocracies of one sort or another. Interesting, huh?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38451 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm afraid that is not correct. It has not been tested, and cannot be tested, on a scale that would be convincing. Most evolutionists don't even know what they are talking about, and so go along with the flow, or have simply been persuaded.
Persuasion is a powerful thing. Why, just look at how many non-scientists, who have no idea what evolution is really about, actually believe in it on faith.(Faith actually means to be persuaded.)
Why do you keep bringing up creationism? I haven't. I don't support creationism. I assert no claims about the origins of life or the universe.
That is just as about as bad assuming I support one political party if I am against another. Bad logic.
Wrong again. It is not convincing to you because you choose ignorance. Sorry but I must emphasize that fact. But evolution has been tested time after time, and it has always come out on top. Yes, nonscientists don't have a clue about a lot of things. Take Relativity for example. Most people don't really believe it. Since it does not threaten hardly anyone's religion it is not a controversial theory. And your statement about most evolutionists needs some qualifications. If you are taking about scientists you are obviously wrong. If you are talking about the average joe who does not have too much technical thinking you could be right.

To properly understand most scientific tests you need a fair amount of education in that particular science. The important thing is that scientists can explain how their theory works to those who have not had the education yet. For an example where the scientists have not had time to make a simplified explanation yet check out the info on the Higgs Boson. Your ignorance, or in the case of the Higgs even my ignorance is not an excuse to deny a theory. There are times that you go to the experts. Knowing when is extremely important in this world of ours.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38452 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh. I wouldn't know. I don't pay much attention to them. You would think the way evolutionist attack them, that they'd have a theory. Mm.
Yes, and by the way, evolution fails all those tests. No observable evidence. And there are no tests. And if you don't think some ideas can graduate to theories despite peer-reviews evidence, think again. The scientific community is just as corruptible as any institution or organization of men. Even more so, because of arrogance.
In a way, science was stolen from the people by aristocracies of one sort or another. Interesting, huh?
Why do you keep making these obviously wrong statements. There is all sorts of observable evidence. You simply choose to ignore it. For someone who does not believe in creationism you seem to be making the exact same mistakes as one. That is a very strange coincidence. The scientific community may be as corruptible as any other institution, can you name a corrupt institution and prove it? Science is self correcting because there is no "big money" in it. Yes you can earn a decent living, but it is all but impossible to get rich as just a scientist. The removal of excessive money tends to keep the institution incredibly honest.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38453 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yankee, you should not lie, in fact there is a double lie in your post.
First the bulk of all data supports the theory of evolution. In fact all of it supports evolution. That is one of the reasons it is such a strong theory. And as I stated already there is no theory of Creationism, nor are there any theories of ID.
Second, evolution is not based on "accident" far from it. Yes, there is a factor of randomness to it, but that in no way means it runs by accident. Natural selection is a much stronger factor for evolution than chance. Think of an old fashioned pachinko board. Exactly where the ball ends up side to side is dependent on chance, the fact that it is going to go down is the equivalent of natural selection. In other words the exact animals we got on Earth were due to chance, the fact that we have highly evolved animals is due to natural selection.
Not at all, and I don't lie, nor have a motive to lie. If you're going to go down the path of ad hominems, don't bother.

Let's be perfectly clear.

There is absolutely no evidence for evolution. None. It is not, and has never been a strong theory. It is not a real theory at all. What evolution is, is the profound and sad evidence of absolute corruption of the minds of good men, and the loss of a great deal of revenue and time in a dead end when there are much more important things to be spending money on.

Natural selection is an entirely different subject. Evolution may depend upon natural selection, but natural selection does not depend upon evolution.

And what I meant my accident, if that somehow, the vast and ever-growing complexity of ALL the scientific disciplines is somehow the result of an accident.

No, friend. ALL evidence, in ALL of the sciences, points to design. I do not care to speculate on WHO or WHAT the designer is. All I am interested in is the amusing and unbelievable superstition (yes, superstition) that all this magically came together on its own, from the laws of physics to biological systems vastly more complex and capable of processing data than all the super computers ever made.

Of course, I don't expect you to understand it. There is simply too much brainwashing and human conditioning in modern media to erase this nonsense from the planet. But I am certain, absolutely certain, than centuries from now scientists will look at this time period with the same amused disbelief as we do with Medieval folks that thought the world was flat.

Evolution is equal in stupidity and intellect as flat-earthers, hands down. But of course, Medieval folks never thought the earth was flat to begin with, and we modern humans have so many misconceptions on just about everything, that it's a wonder there is any progress at all.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38454 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
The equivalence in possibility only seems that way to the uneducated. In the Dover trial one thing that the Evolution side had to do was to educate the judge as to how science is done. By the time the trial was done he made a slam dunk decision for the Evolutionists. In fact he was close to charging some of the IDiots with perjury, but he figured they had already suffered enough.
In other words, the judge was convinced about how science is done, rather than how it actually applied to evolution. In other words, he was duped, and the fraud was on the part of the evolutionists.

Yes, that is standard operating procedure since the time of the Royal Academy and convincing kings to finance dumb ideas, and get more funding for them.

I don't know of the court hearing you speak of, but I know history, and court hearings from the time of Rome that went against all logic and reason, by using logic and reason itself rather than applying those tools to the problem at hand.

Invented by the Greeks, and called sophistry.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#38455 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep making these obviously wrong statements. There is all sorts of observable evidence. You simply choose to ignore it. For someone who does not believe in creationism you seem to be making the exact same mistakes as one. That is a very strange coincidence. The scientific community may be as corruptible as any other institution, can you name a corrupt institution and prove it? Science is self correcting because there is no "big money" in it. Yes you can earn a decent living, but it is all but impossible to get rich as just a scientist. The removal of excessive money tends to keep the institution incredibly honest.
I do not believe you understand how gov't funding of scientific research works...

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38456 Aug 15, 2012
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>And you have not ben simply persuaded to 'go with the flow', huh?
Then please explain to us what you think the theory of e olution is about..., in you own word, not some cut and paste....
Even better, I'll tell you WHAT evolution is about. An otherwise valid hypothesis if mutations were numerous enough, and generally beneficial enough, to result in complex higher development in biology.

Unfortunately, there is no evidence for such a model, mutations are not common enough at all, nor do the extremely few mutations ever result in anything beneficial, let alone a new species.

Now, if a new model could be found, such as the possibility that evolution is slowed down dramatically, or become nonexistent, because we have reached near the apex of refinement, you might have something.

All current species on earth are only a tiny fraction of all life that has ever existed on earth. That means we are the best of the best, the most evolved of the evolved, the cream of the crop.

But that also suggest that there is some evolutionary goal, and that's a scary idea that borders on the lunacy of creationism. Nor is there evidence for any of this, of any variable accelerated rate of evolution over billions of years.

It is a popular theory because in one way it does make sense. But it is utterly unsupported by science on all counts for pure lack of evidence. You might as well believe in ET's seeding of the earth, there is more evidence for it with all the mysteries of archeology that go unexplained.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38457 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again. It is not convincing to you because you choose ignorance. Sorry but I must emphasize that fact. But evolution has been tested time after time, and it has always come out on top. Yes, nonscientists don't have a clue about a lot of things. Take Relativity for example. Most people don't really believe it. Since it does not threaten hardly anyone's religion it is not a controversial theory. And your statement about most evolutionists needs some qualifications. If you are taking about scientists you are obviously wrong. If you are talking about the average joe who does not have too much technical thinking you could be right.
To properly understand most scientific tests you need a fair amount of education in that particular science. The important thing is that scientists can explain how their theory works to those who have not had the education yet. For an example where the scientists have not had time to make a simplified explanation yet check out the info on the Higgs Boson. Your ignorance, or in the case of the Higgs even my ignorance is not an excuse to deny a theory. There are times that you go to the experts. Knowing when is extremely important in this world of ours.
Sigh ... same argument again.

It has never been tested, because it can't be tested. The ignorance is in your corner, and I am trying not to be insulting, but it is what it is. You are playing the argument by authority card. There is no authority on this matter, there is no scientific support for evolution at all. None. I hope in my lifetime the scientific community is finally liberated from this century-old waste of time.

I know, it's hard. I bought into all my life. And now I have liberated my mind from it, and everyone else that things they know the answer. You know how I liberated my mind from it? I actually STUDIED evolution, deeply. I learned all I could. And I was amazed by the unbelievable nonsense of it and its supporters. Astounded. Knowing a little psychology and sociology helped I guess, because I knew how false ideas could be believed by the masses very easily, and I saw all the patterns in the scientific community itself, which I ASSUMED was immune. Not only are scientists not immune, I think it is because of their profound arrogance that they have fallen for such an obvious fraud.

No one knows the answer. Everyone is wrong, and no one knows the answer. It seems fear of the unknown has won the day again, and new superstitions and a new priesthood born to give answers, because people would rather have lies than the truth that no one knows.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38458 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep making these obviously wrong statements. There is all sorts of observable evidence. You simply choose to ignore it. For someone who does not believe in creationism you seem to be making the exact same mistakes as one. That is a very strange coincidence. The scientific community may be as corruptible as any other institution, can you name a corrupt institution and prove it? Science is self correcting because there is no "big money" in it. Yes you can earn a decent living, but it is all but impossible to get rich as just a scientist. The removal of excessive money tends to keep the institution incredibly honest.
Because they are not obviously wrong. And there is no observable evidence. And there is no coincidence, because the Creationists at least know you don't have a leg to stand on. Nor do they.

Are you kidding me? If you don't know about the enormous amounts of money in science from both Big Business and Big Government, since the late 1800's in fact, then I don't know what to tell you. There has always been big money in science, since ancient times. Good grief.

It's not Big Money for the scientists, its for the corporations (including universities) and governments that pay them just enough to live well ... but never enough for them to become powerful enough to come out in public and denounce the false findings.

Don't be naive. When corporations are denied all property rights and patents, and scientists are liberated from them, and able to become independently wealthy again, then we will see the real science emerge.
HTS

Williston, ND

#38459 Aug 15, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no religion, I am a non-religious atheist.
As for you using Ben Stein, who is a real laughing stock, as a reference ... well, there you go, it makes you a laughing stock of a laughing stock. At least now we know the incredibly low level of intelligence and study you have.
Every person has a religion, and those who say they don't are deceiving themselves. Atheists are bigger religious zealots than most evangelical Criatians. They worship natural selection, and place man as th supreme intelligence in the universe.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#38460 Aug 15, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Every person has a religion, and those who say they don't are deceiving themselves. Atheists are bigger religious zealots than most evangelical Criatians. They worship natural selection, and place man as th supreme intelligence in the universe.
the way you lie to yourself seems to point to you supplanting yourself as the god of all...

It's funny hoe the ultimate arrogant people never see their fault until history points to them with the wagging finger and the furrowed brow...

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#38461 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's how any honest scientists thinks, and has thought, for centuries, because the bulk of all scientific data point to design, not accident.
Oh, and so you claim you are not generally hostile with those that disagree with you?

I may get aggressive with liars evolution/science deniers and trolls on occasions. But not perhaps you feel threatened when you know you are lying and trolling with your denial and false representation of science. Like saying this..

"because the bulk of all scientific data point to design"

That is complete garbage.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38462 Aug 15, 2012
Sorry Yankee, you are facepalmingly wrong about evolution. The fact that you don't understand the evidence for it does not make it a weak theory. To judge how strong a theory is you need to poll scientists and you will find that the vast majority will say that evolution is a very very very strong theory.

You might not think you are lying, but once you are corrected and cannot find evidence to disprove the correction if you continue with the same claims then you are lying. In the first case you might not have known better. In the second case you did. So please stop lying, or prove that there is no evidence for evolution.

Odds are that you are just another lying creationist. We have had a few of them here lately. They know that they cannot defend their belief in creation so they deny it, while trying to disprove evolution at the same time.

Now you can say that you are not convinced. That would not be a lie. But to say it is not a strong theory is a lie. To say that there is no evidence of it is a lie. To say that it cannot be tested is a lie.

Do you understand?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38463 Aug 15, 2012
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>I do not believe you understand how gov't funding of scientific research works...
Oh no, another conspiracy theorist nut.

Yes, I suppose a scientist pulling down a cool $100,000.00 a year seems like a rich person to you. Many of them could make much more in the private sector. Researchers love to find out things, that is why they take jobs that pay below their education level. They would rather learn what makes the world tick than to pull down the big bucks.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38464 Aug 15, 2012
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Every person has a religion, and those who say they don't are deceiving themselves. Atheists are bigger religious zealots than most evangelical Criatians. They worship natural selection, and place man as th supreme intelligence in the universe.
Atheists do not worship anything, at least not in the religious sense. You are projecting your own flaws upon others again. And you are at least 99% atheist too, and I can prove it.

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#38465 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words, the judge was convinced about how science is done, rather than how it actually applied to evolution. In other words, he was duped, and the fraud was on the part of the evolutionists.
Yes, that is standard operating procedure since the time of the Royal Academy and convincing kings to finance dumb ideas, and get more funding for them.
I don't know of the court hearing you speak of, but I know history, and court hearings from the time of Rome that went against all logic and reason, by using logic and reason itself rather than applying those tools to the problem at hand.
Invented by the Greeks, and called sophistry.
It's hard to believe such an projector of falsehoods can live with the shame.
wolverine

Greeley, CO

#38466 Aug 16, 2012
Atheists Seem To Believe That Nothing Can Be More Authorative Then Science....Yet, Much Of Reality Lies Outside Of Sciences Understanding.

In My Opinion, You kneel At The Feet Of Sciences Elites.

All Of Which Is Fine And Your Right. But, When And Where Do You Draw The Line....??
Is It Acceptable To Dismiss Any And All Other Beliefs ?
And, If So, Then Arent We All Able To Do The Same About Sciences Unproven Theories ?

At Some Point, You Need To Accept The Fact That Science Soes Not Have The Answers, And Never Will.
And, That Your Life Experiences Should Lead You To Know That Something Much Greater Then Chance Is At The Center Of Our Exsistence.
O Fortuna

Kitchener, Canada

#38467 Aug 16, 2012
wolverine wrote:
Atheists Seem To Believe That Nothing Can Be More Authorative Then Science....Yet, Much Of Reality Lies Outside Of Sciences Understanding.
In My Opinion, You kneel At The Feet Of Sciences Elites.
All Of Which Is Fine And Your Right. But, When And Where Do You Draw The Line....??
Is It Acceptable To Dismiss Any And All Other Beliefs ?
And, If So, Then Arent We All Able To Do The Same About Sciences Unproven Theories ?
At Some Point, You Need To Accept The Fact That Science Soes Not Have The Answers, And Never Will.
And, That Your Life Experiences Should Lead You To Know That Something Much Greater Then Chance Is At The Center Of Our Exsistence.
Science earns its respect because it is not only foundationed on Facts...it is provable facts that anyone can reproduce if they don't believe it. Science is the only truly objective field of study because it is open to be criticized and revised based on the evidence with the ultimate goal of telling the truth.

Religion and its superstition magic nonsense isnt about truth as it is about control over its low iq cult followers.
MAZ

Richmond, VA

#38468 Aug 16, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Systems, Cycles, Patterns. The systems make things cycle which makes patterns and the cycles make patterns in the systems and the patterns in the systems are due to cycles and everything in the universe is SCP therefore Goddidit Amen.
I'm not joking.
Patterns cycle? Who knew?

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