Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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37,001 - 37,020 of 115,169 Comments Last updated 17 min ago

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#38426 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
That's fine, I don't care about young-earth theories. The same holds true for evolution. It can't be tested, and the models don't work at all. Mutations are not common enough to result in transitions, and everything in nature currently resists change very fiercely. Nature is a very conservative woman that doesn't like surprises.
"...everything in nature currently resists change very fiercly.."?

what about the various strains of diseases that have developed immunity (change) to anti-biotics in the very short time since anti-biotics were discovered?

i sense a major flaw in your reasonings (skills).

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38427 Aug 15, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Right , exactly what do you find hostile about that statement?
All of your statements reflect a deep hostility to those that don't agree with you.

Such as:

"He thinks someone had to light the fuse to get a big bang."

So shape up or ship out if you want to have a fruitful discourse.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38428 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Here you go Yankee Yahoo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
"A Universe From Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss.
Mmm, instead of a youtube video, why not explain to me simply what you are asserting here? And then apply the scientific method, and look for holes in your assertion.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38429 Aug 15, 2012
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
1. When you say that the idea that nothing moves faster then light is false do you mean there is a documented event of something going faster then 186,000 miles per second, or are you referring to light being slowed by going through some medium?
2. Absolutely bias can happen, including institutionalization. But not all science are in the same institutions. Scientists in Japan or Germany or Australia can criticize the work of American scientists, for example. And there is a lot of incentive to question those institutions. Hell, just about every movie about science ever made usually involves someone challenging them, it is a very romantic notion. But lots of different scientists with different agendas all analyzing the same data and coming up with the same conclusion is pretty telling.
3. What corruption could possibly result in somebody pushing the Theory of Evolution forward? No one benefits. There is no money to be made. It's not like the entire field of biology disappears if Evolution gets replaced.
4. So, 150 years of scientists saying there is scientific evidence for Evolution has just been a massive, global conspiracy? Did they rent out Madison Square Garden to meet and plan the biggest practical joke in history?
Don't remember the details, but there was an article about ten years ago. Here is something more recent, but a different experiment.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

Yes, it would be telling. But that is not what has happened with evolution. There is not enough data for anyone to come to any conclusions about. This is more a case of scientific peer pressure, the same thing that pushed eugenics despite the reservations of many that stayed silent. The fact is, if you don't come up with results about evolution that everyone else likes, you loose your job ... period.

And I agree. Why is evolution being pushed? Who profits? Why, the scientific community does, of course. Countless billions have been wasted in these last 150 years in a futile attempt to prove evolution correct, in the hopes that enough fossils will be found to justify it.

It would have been far cheaper to let the issue go and move on to more pressing concerns like finding new source of energy or space travel, and other innovations.

Evolution is an extreme and criminal waste of intellectual time and money.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38430 Aug 15, 2012
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution has nothing to do with Atheism.
From the Clergy Letter, signed by over 12,000 Clergy:
We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as "one theory among others" is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God's good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God's loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.
Yes, all true.

But it still doesn't change the fact that science itself does not support evolution.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38431 Aug 15, 2012
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
Scientists always accept the fact that any scientific Theory might be overturned at any time by new evidence. That is one of the great strengths of Science.
The problem is, opponents of Science use that as a weakness. For one thing, they since that since Evolution or the Big Bang can be overturned by new evidence, then the Theory is obviously weak.
Second, when they attack Evolution, it prompts people to defend it. But when people defend Evolution, they use that defend to make it seem like Evolution is some kind of religion. Let me be very clear, neither I nor anyone else here has anything invested in Evolution being true. If Evolution was disproved tomorrow, we would be stunned and excited and thrilled for biologists because that would probably be the most interesting time to work in biology ever.
I don't care about Evolution, or the Big Bang. I care about proper science education in our schools and I care about proper scientific and medical research in our country and I care about Creationists willing to sacrifice the education of children just so they can have their religion taught in schools.
No, that SHOULD be how science works, but it does not. Political pressure and economics is the driving factors behind all science today, either by government or by corporate interests.

That is why there have been very few real advances compared to history, when science in the Nikola Telsa and Wright Brother days, from the private and open-source sector, resulted in real innovations.

Why, we don't even bother curing anything any more. We just invent new drugs at great expense to keep the profits rolling in.

I don't think you appreciate, or realize, the utter tragedy that has befallen humanity in the form of Big Business and Big Government, and there total and absolute negative effect on science.

Behold a simple fact of all human history. All innovative ages in all of history, in all civilizations, are from the early period of time before governments and mercantilism take it over. For example, the Greeks and Celts invented almost everything the later Romans would use to conquer them both, but the Romans invented almost nothing at all.

That is the tragedy of human history. Science always gets corrupted by government. Evolution and climate change are just two politicized examples, where neither the supporters nor the deniers know what is really happening.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38432 Aug 15, 2012
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
I can buy that, but here's the thing: Christians accept Evolution, Atheists accept Evolution, Jews accept Evolution, Hindus accept Evolution, Democrats accept Evolution, Republicans accept Evolution. People of all different religions, political ideologies, philosophies, creeds agree on Evolution. It does not support or promote any specific ideology.
And they all accept evolution not because of the science (there is non) but because of the media, and the vast majority of science fiction (which even Hindus happen to love since it strikes a cord in their mythology of ancient nuclear bombs and flying machines.)

Ah, we haven't touched on the other, incredible corrupter of science ... Big Media. And how often have facts been twisted and misreported by the media, even on genuine scientific discoveries?

Do not confuse public opinion, which has been duped into accepting a hoax, with real science.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#38433 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that SHOULD be how science works, but it does not. Political pressure and economics is the driving factors behind all science today, either by government or by corporate interests.
That is why there have been very few real advances compared to history, when science in the Nikola Telsa and Wright Brother days, from the private and open-source sector, resulted in real innovations.
Why, we don't even bother curing anything any more. We just invent new drugs at great expense to keep the profits rolling in.
I don't think you appreciate, or realize, the utter tragedy that has befallen humanity in the form of Big Business and Big Government, and there total and absolute negative effect on science.
Behold a simple fact of all human history. All innovative ages in all of history, in all civilizations, are from the early period of time before governments and mercantilism take it over. For example, the Greeks and Celts invented almost everything the later Romans would use to conquer them both, but the Romans invented almost nothing at all.
That is the tragedy of human history. Science always gets corrupted by government. Evolution and climate change are just two politicized examples, where neither the supporters nor the deniers know what is really happening.
You're delving deep into tin-foil hat territory here.

You DO realize that Fox News sued in court to have the right to lie to you, correct?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#38434 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
All of your statements reflect a deep hostility to those that don't agree with you.
Such as:
"He thinks someone had to light the fuse to get a big bang."
So shape up or ship out if you want to have a fruitful discourse.
There absolutely nothing hostile about saying ..

You think someone had to light the fuse to get a big bang.

It just means that you think it could not have happened without something causing it, that is how all believers and creationists think.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#38435 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
All of your statements reflect a deep hostility to those that don't agree with you.
Such as:
"He thinks someone had to light the fuse to get a big bang."
So shape up or ship out if you want to have a fruitful discourse.
As far as shaping up or shipping out , though.... please do not give me hysterical fits of laughter.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#38436 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
All of your statements reflect a deep hostility to those that don't agree with you.
Such as:
"He thinks someone had to light the fuse to get a big bang."
So shape up or ship out if you want to have a fruitful discourse.
Maybe if you quit blowing smoke out your butt without a shred of evidence to back it up you wouldn't think everyone was out to get you.

We've just dismissed KJV and HTS for doing exactly what you're doing. Eventually you'll just wander off into the sunset and another uneducated blowhard will tale your place.
1 post removed

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38438 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
That's fine, I don't care about young-earth theories. The same holds true for evolution. It can't be tested, and the models don't work at all. Mutations are not common enough to result in transitions, and everything in nature currently resists change very fiercely. Nature is a very conservative woman that doesn't like surprises.
You don't know what you are talking about when you say that evolution cannot be tested. It has been tested both in the short term and in the long term. Creationists have been using the "that's just homology" claim to the breaking point. When you make an unsupported claim like that all that takes to equal it is for me to simply gainsay it. Since you offered no proof at all I can beat it with a slam dunk by offering not only one example, but two. On the long run the finding of Tiktaalik was a positive test of the theory of evolution. It was not something that would have been found using any creation hypothesis. In the short term they have managed to get E. coli to evolve so it could digest citrate. Not only once but several times. And also in the short term there is the evolution of nylonaise. Oops, I couldn't help myself. Those are three examples that bust your claim of nontestability.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38439 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Mmm, instead of a youtube video, why not explain to me simply what you are asserting here? And then apply the scientific method, and look for holes in your assertion.
That video explains how the appearance of mass from the Big Bang does not violate conservation of energy. It is an hour long, but he is an excellent speaker and the time flies.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38440 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
That's fine, I don't care about young-earth theories. The same holds true for evolution. It can't be tested, and the models don't work at all. Mutations are not common enough to result in transitions, and everything in nature currently resists change very fiercely. Nature is a very conservative woman that doesn't like surprises.
By the way, there are no Young Earth theories. If believers in a Young Earth came out with even a testable hypothesis evolutionists would have tested it. It would have failed, since YEC's are clearly wrong. The steps in science are observation, creating a workable testable hypothesis, testing that hypothesis, submitting your tested hypothesis in theory form for peer review, and finally peer review rigorously tests your idea and if it passes the test given to it then it can be declared a theory.

Currently in school ALL scientific theories are taught. There are no scientific theories of creationism.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38441 Aug 15, 2012
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
You're delving deep into tin-foil hat territory here.
You DO realize that Fox News sued in court to have the right to lie to you, correct?
Ah, the ignorant masses display their usual rhetoric.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38442 Aug 15, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> There absolutely nothing hostile about saying ..
You think someone had to light the fuse to get a big bang.
It just means that you think it could not have happened without something causing it, that is how all believers and creationists think.
No, that's how any honest scientists thinks, and has thought, for centuries, because the bulk of all scientific data point to design, not accident.

Oh, and so you claim you are not generally hostile with those that disagree with you?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38443 Aug 15, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe if you quit blowing smoke out your butt without a shred of evidence to back it up you wouldn't think everyone was out to get you.
We've just dismissed KJV and HTS for doing exactly what you're doing. Eventually you'll just wander off into the sunset and another uneducated blowhard will tale your place.
Doing exactly what, friend? I'm not here making assertions ... the evolutionists are ... and the common man and woman that follow along without actual know what the science is about.

I have nothing to assert here. As I've stated, Creationists and Evolutionists are both equally as batty and don't have enough evidence one way or another.

Are you claiming that KJV and HTS (whoever they are) make this EXACT same claim?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38444 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know what you are talking about when you say that evolution cannot be tested. It has been tested both in the short term and in the long term. Creationists have been using the "that's just homology" claim to the breaking point. When you make an unsupported claim like that all that takes to equal it is for me to simply gainsay it. Since you offered no proof at all I can beat it with a slam dunk by offering not only one example, but two. On the long run the finding of Tiktaalik was a positive test of the theory of evolution. It was not something that would have been found using any creation hypothesis. In the short term they have managed to get E. coli to evolve so it could digest citrate. Not only once but several times. And also in the short term there is the evolution of nylonaise. Oops, I couldn't help myself. Those are three examples that bust your claim of nontestability.
I'm afraid that is not correct. It has not been tested, and cannot be tested, on a scale that would be convincing. Most evolutionists don't even know what they are talking about, and so go along with the flow, or have simply been persuaded.

Persuasion is a powerful thing. Why, just look at how many non-scientists, who have no idea what evolution is really about, actually believe in it on faith.(Faith actually means to be persuaded.)

Why do you keep bringing up creationism? I haven't. I don't support creationism. I assert no claims about the origins of life or the universe.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38445 Aug 15, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know what you are talking about when you say that evolution cannot be tested. It has been tested both in the short term and in the long term. Creationists have been using the "that's just homology" claim to the breaking point. When you make an unsupported claim like that all that takes to equal it is for me to simply gainsay it. Since you offered no proof at all I can beat it with a slam dunk by offering not only one example, but two. On the long run the finding of Tiktaalik was a positive test of the theory of evolution. It was not something that would have been found using any creation hypothesis. In the short term they have managed to get E. coli to evolve so it could digest citrate. Not only once but several times. And also in the short term there is the evolution of nylonaise. Oops, I couldn't help myself. Those are three examples that bust your claim of nontestability.
I'm afraid that is not correct. It has not been tested, and cannot be tested, on a scale that would be convincing. Most evolutionists don't even know what they are talking about, and so go along with the flow, or have simply been persuaded.

Persuasion is a powerful thing. Why, just look at how many non-scientists, who have no idea what evolution is really about, actually believe in it on faith.(Faith actually means to be persuaded.)

Why do you keep bringing up creationism? I haven't. I don't support creationism. I assert no claims about the origins of life or the universe.

That is just as about as bad assuming I support one political party if I am against another. Bad logic.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#38446 Aug 15, 2012
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's how any honest scientists thinks, and has thought, for centuries, because the bulk of all scientific data point to design, not accident.
Oh, and so you claim you are not generally hostile with those that disagree with you?
Yankee, you should not lie, in fact there is a double lie in your post.

First the bulk of all data supports the theory of evolution. In fact all of it supports evolution. That is one of the reasons it is such a strong theory. And as I stated already there is no theory of Creationism, nor are there any theories of ID.

Second, evolution is not based on "accident" far from it. Yes, there is a factor of randomness to it, but that in no way means it runs by accident. Natural selection is a much stronger factor for evolution than chance. Think of an old fashioned pachinko board. Exactly where the ball ends up side to side is dependent on chance, the fact that it is going to go down is the equivalent of natural selection. In other words the exact animals we got on Earth were due to chance, the fact that we have highly evolved animals is due to natural selection.

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