Protecting the nation while upholding...

Protecting the nation while upholding our civil liberties

There are 90 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Dec 22, 2013, titled Protecting the nation while upholding our civil liberties. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

On Aug. 27, President Barack Obama met in the White House Situation Room with the five members of his newly appointed Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

“Hicksville Hootenanny”

Since: Sep 13

Kornfield Kounty

#62 Dec 27, 2013
Le Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>
Like America Texas is a republic. You poor moon beam.
Most of America laughs at wrexas. LMAO.
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#63 Dec 28, 2013
So you think living in a state as compared to a commonwealth has it's advantages in that the commonwealth the local government can set their own policies and laws in governing themselves, instead of having the State capital dictate to them restrictions?

That's part of that Marxist in you that favor State mandates over the individuality of the counties in a Commonwealth.

Wal Mart accepts Food Stamps and profits handsomely from the welfare state as does Farmers in America too, I'm in good company the kind that keeps America working.
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>I see you left out the obvious which I knew you would which is the reason I did it to see if you would try to post another Liberal Lie which you did but I will explain so everyone else here knows the difference between a State and a Commonwealth Government work but a Normal state is a country or a self-governing political body while a Commonwealth state is a political unit having local autonomy which is the Big Difference and the laws and regulations are inconsisent throughout a Commonwealth State like Kentucky were you have wet and dry counties where here in Indiana all 92 counties are the same and now everyone knows why you are for Welfare because you profit from the Welfare or Entitlement Society through the Section 8 Housing which I figured you did which we be the only way somebody that owns property would be for the expansion of the Federal Governments Welfare State which your livelihood depends on.
Alcohol laws of Kentucky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_...
Difference between a Commonwealth and a State?
A state is a country or a self-governing political body while a commonwealth state is a political unit having local autonomy but is freely united with the United States. In the U.S., there are fifty states; four out of the fifty states, namely Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Virginia, and Massachusetts, are officially called commonwealths.
A state is defined as a political unit or territory forming part of a government or country, whereas a commonwealth is a group of sovereign states associated by choice and linked by a similar history, aims and interests.
Commonwealth meant an organized political community. What we today call a 'state. The term 'commonwealth' meant an organized political community what we today call a 'state.
http://www.ask.com/question/what-is-the-diffe...
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#64 Dec 28, 2013
Just this week there were two judges who ruled that the NSA is in no way violating the Constitution, and this administration is careful to ensure there are no violations.

Out of my league, that's bizarre coming from someone suffering from paranoid delusions of being listened to ....... maybe you should keep up with the legal cases surrounding this issue and stop repeating the stooge opinions on the matter.

You're looking for problems that aren't there.

Bottom line it's a continuation of a program started by George Bush and so says Judges, in good hands under Obama.
lamer wrote:
Boy you are way out of your league here. At what point does it matter whom started the NSA 50 some years ago? Both side use it and expand it for over 50 years but you want to point at 1 party and try to lay all the blame there; not happening.
Meta data has not been found to violate our rights by the court. Many have tried to use this agruement but you see, you leave out all the acts they are doing as this metadata collection is simply 1 of many things they are currently collecting. And the legal ruling on this metadata collection is based on telecom dark age laws that were made in the early 70s and have not been updated since. Its pretty easy to justify a law as legal when that is the law you are dealing it. Just b/c it is legal doesnt make it right. But do you want to talk about all the programs judges have found unconstitutional? You seems to have left all those out and seemed to only want to focus on metadata.
Then again, you point at when the repubs could have moved the ball, they fumbled. THE DEMS COULD HAVE VOTED FOR IT AND PASSED BUT THEY ALSO FUMBLED IT AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. But facts be damned right as you are still trying to blame repubs for something the dems were doing AT THE SAME TIME. Atleast the repubs are trying to do something where the dems simply do not bring it up for a vote.

So so far in this thread you told jimbo it was the repubs fault for filibustering when in this issue they had not. You blame the repubs for these programs when they have been fully embraced by dem. You go as far to say "the point is clear that the Republicans in congress thwarted any Congressional attempt to revise or reform any of the Bush implemented laws and policies related to that Patriot Act. "
That is downright false as it has been the repubs being the only party to actually bring something up for a vote in regards to reigning in on the surveillance state but again, you blame the other side and defend yours when it's your own party at fault. You go on and on about fillibusters but that has nothing to do with this issue as the repubs have never fillibusters a vote on this issue. That would mainly be because THE DEMS HAVE NEVER BROUGHT IT UP FOR A VOTE.
And for some reason you seem to these these programs stop at the patriot act and metadata. I got news for your; there are over 60 surveillance programs actively running that we know about thanks to snowden's leak. the patriot act is simply another piece of legal framework that again, was put in place with the help of democrats. Yes Bush started it, but how many times has obama and the democratic senate passed extensions to it again? 3 times now? 4? Do you even know?
So feel free to keep blaming the other party for your own party's fault, but that still not going to stop us from calling a hypocrite a hypocrite. What it does do it stop me from ever voting for a democrat again.(dont feel bad as i dont vote repub either).
But for everyone else in this thread, when we call out the left's hypocrisy on this issue, you can see exactly where it is coming from in this very thread.
lamer

Piqua, OH

#65 Dec 28, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
Just this week there were two judges who ruled that the NSA is in no way violating the Constitution, and this administration is careful to ensure there are no violations.
Out of my league, that's bizarre coming from someone suffering from paranoid delusions of being listened to ....... maybe you should keep up with the legal cases surrounding this issue and stop repeating the stooge opinions on the matter.
You're looking for problems that aren't there.
Bottom line it's a continuation of a program started by George Bush and so says Judges, in good hands under Obama.
<quoted text>
so you going to point to the one case where the judge said it was legal and not the other that have been ruled not. You do not all these lawsuits are not the same right? As some focus on the programS (with and S) while other focus on specific programs or even specific parts of certain programs. This one suit you are now referencing was one focused on the spying apparatus as a whole and like all the other suits that focus on the whole and not a specific party, was ruled legal.

I see you chose to ignore the liberal hypocrisy part as well and again chose to focus on the tight and narrow. But as I have pointed it, it was so bad when bush did it, but here is the same people praising obama for not only continuing the practices, but expanding them; all the while still trying to lame the blame on someone who has not been in office for 6 years.
lamer

Piqua, OH

#66 Dec 28, 2013
A little snippet from the ruling you are referencing:
"But he said the program's constitutionality "is ultimately a question of reasonableness," and that there was no evidence that the government had used "bulk telephony metadata" for any reason other than to investigate and disrupt terrorist attacks."
Which is funny as the EFF won a lawsuit earlier this year on exactly those grounds:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and...
So even in this judge's own ruling, using public knowledge, we know that is false. But keep singing his praises...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#67 Dec 28, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
So you think living in a state as compared to a commonwealth has it's advantages in that the commonwealth the local government can set their own policies and laws in governing themselves, instead of having the State capital dictate to them restrictions?
That's part of that Marxist in you that favor State mandates over the individuality of the counties in a Commonwealth.
Wal Mart accepts Food Stamps and profits handsomely from the welfare state as does Farmers in America too, I'm in good company the kind that keeps America working.
<quoted text>
First of all you have to understand what it means to be a Marxist and that is someone that adhere's stricitly to the original writings & meanings of Capitalism, Communism, and Socialism by Marx which it was Marx that labeled the US being founded in 1776 on Socialism in the 1860's because of the Form of Government here in the US where the Government was not a provider then which you would be against and people had to work and not like today where they depend on the Nanny State which you depend on Nanny State too which is why your thinking is flawed which cannot sustain itself because you dont create something that has Use Value to society like Corn, Soybeans, Wheat and other products which is what creates wealth as where Government doesnt create wealth it can only tax and is the only way Government can pay people like you that chooses to be a service provider to the Government which makes you nothing more than a member & Advocate of the Welfare Society too who provide Section 8 Housing for their other members of the Welfare Society for your own economical existence in Society which Marx would reject in his writings besides you are not in the same company as farmers and that reason is because they produce items that have use value and can sold to Society where you cant and are totally dependent on Government keeping people held down economically and dependent on Section 8 housing so the Government can pay you and without that welfare society you are done for economically because you don't produce anything that has use value and the Commonwealth states are nothing but Police States at the Local Level in some counties which I know that too.
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#68 Dec 29, 2013
There were two cases this week and, to boot, in every case this has come before a Judge the opinion of the court has been consistent........ There are no violation of infringement and this administration is taking care to ensure no infringements take place.

Where are you getting your information, apparently it's not coming from the courts. You sir, are repeating common gossip that has no basis in fact to speak of on the matter of NSA.

You've allowed your chain to be yanked by salesmen .
lamer wrote:
<quoted text>
so you going to point to the one case where the judge said it was legal and not the other that have been ruled not. You do not all these lawsuits are not the same right? As some focus on the programS (with and S) while other focus on specific programs or even specific parts of certain programs. This one suit you are now referencing was one focused on the spying apparatus as a whole and like all the other suits that focus on the whole and not a specific party, was ruled legal.
I see you chose to ignore the liberal hypocrisy part as well and again chose to focus on the tight and narrow. But as I have pointed it, it was so bad when bush did it, but here is the same people praising obama for not only continuing the practices, but expanding them; all the while still trying to lame the blame on someone who has not been in office for 6 years.
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#69 Dec 29, 2013
You'd have to first identify the founders and agitators of the Revolution, and all of them to the man were Subjects of England, a Socialist State. The Ideas and programs institued in the colonies were very much socialist programs. Social Security is an extension of the poor laws from England scoped to fit the Colonies here in America in the colonial era. The concept of shared living was a necessity in carving out a living in the wilderness.

It's bunk to believe America was founding on Capitalism it's never existed by the definition, for years afer the creation of America or before the Creation of America.

America functioned under a concept of closed markets for a long time, Minorities like Native Americans, Blacks and any other were locked out of the market place in being denied opportunities to purchase and sell goods and materials or basic access to capital for investment.

The constitution gave congress authority to regulate markets, capitalism involves no regulation from the State. however, what would have been the cost of building a strong, stable society with the rule for law and order as it's stabilizing force?

You can look at third world communities to see the result of a society without stable institutions and no law and order.
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>First of all you have to understand what it means to be a Marxist and that is someone that adhere's stricitly to the original writings & meanings of Capitalism, Communism, and Socialism by Marx which it was Marx that labeled the US being founded in 1776 on Socialism in the 1860's because of the Form of Government here in the US where the Government was not a provider then which you would be against and people had to work and not like today where they depend on the Nanny State which you depend on Nanny State too which is why your thinking is flawed which cannot sustain itself because you dont create something that has Use Value to society like Corn, Soybeans, Wheat and other products which is what creates wealth as where Government doesnt create wealth it can only tax and is the only way Government can pay people like you that chooses to be a service provider to the Government which makes you nothing more than a member & Advocate of the Welfare Society too who provide Section 8 Housing for their other members of the Welfare Society for your own economical existence in Society which Marx would reject in his writings besides you are not in the same company as farmers and that reason is because they produce items that have use value and can sold to Society where you cant and are totally dependent on Government keeping people held down economically and dependent on Section 8 housing so the Government can pay you and without that welfare society you are done for economically because you don't produce anything that has use value and the Commonwealth states are nothing but Police States at the Local Level in some counties which I know that too.
angel

Boise, ID

#70 Dec 29, 2013
Le Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>True, not a single attack, more like seven or eight.......starting with Boston and Ft. Hood.
White House Tries to Prevent Judge From Ruling on Surveillance...I guess that is better than sending a hit team.
Its a pity brainless teabaggers such yourself lack the self insight to understand what it says about YOU....having the need to qualify there being no organized attacks by Alqueada on U.S.soil...hell what it says about you and your sick idealogy that you percieve it as BAD NEWS for your side.
Those Studies that pointed out that the Stupid and Personality Disordered gravitate to the Radical Right werent kidding!Lmao!
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#71 Dec 29, 2013
The more you put on these post the clearer it's become you have no idea about America, how the country developed, and who were the framers of the Constitution and where they got their idea for Government.

They were socialist........ the Constructs of the American Social Aid programs came with founders from England, many of them who where fortunate to have lands had them because they were granted lots to farm and build on from the State of England.

This social security program that is the most popular program was a program duplicated from the social aid programs in England.

What you think you know about capitalism, socialism and communism is laughable and out right ridiculous for an Adult to repeat.......

What group of immigrants in the 234 years after independence, that came from across the Atlantic where not socialist, or communist? Stop fooling yourself, hell there are a lot of you who families didn't come until the land was tame and settled after the industrial revolution. You have no connection to America as a wilderness.

Most all of us came from totalitarian regimes trying to escape a life of destitute and poverty. If there were any opportunity and freedom to be and live like human beings we would not have come to America.

Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>First of all you have to understand what it means to be a Marxist and that is someone that adhere's stricitly to the original writings & meanings of Capitalism, Communism, and Socialism by Marx which it was Marx that labeled the US being founded in 1776 on Socialism in the 1860's because of the Form of Government here in the US where the Government was not a provider then which you would be against and people had to work and not like today where they depend on the Nanny State which you depend on Nanny State too which is why your thinking is flawed which cannot sustain itself because you dont create something that has Use Value to society like Corn, Soybeans, Wheat and other products which is what creates wealth as where Government doesnt create wealth it can only tax and is the only way Government can pay people like you that chooses to be a service provider to the Government which makes you nothing more than a member & Advocate of the Welfare Society too who provide Section 8 Housing for their other members of the Welfare Society for your own economical existence in Society which Marx would reject in his writings besides you are not in the same company as farmers and that reason is because they produce items that have use value and can sold to Society where you cant and are totally dependent on Government keeping people held down economically and dependent on Section 8 housing so the Government can pay you and without that welfare society you are done for economically because you don't produce anything that has use value and the Commonwealth states are nothing but Police States at the Local Level in some counties which I know that too.
lamer

Piqua, OH

#72 Dec 29, 2013
Where are you getting your information, apparently it's not coming from the courts

From the snowden leaks which are not immiscible in court currently. feel free to google around. You will find NSA techs spying on girlfriends and love interested. You have the above as well that sites that they are sharing that info with other agencies that have nothing to do with terrorism. You again, obviously arent paying much attention. And no, not every case has been consitant or even arguing on the same grounds. I have already explained that to you.

It is going to be pretty funny watching all the libs here walk this back over the next year as more and more leaks come out. Besides the billions in damage already done to our tech industry; its about to get a lot worse:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/cat...

privacy rules break:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nsa-abuses-contra...
lamer

Piqua, OH

#73 Dec 29, 2013
And just so you can see the economic effect, those backdoors from the spiegel article includes the following companies:

IMB, Junipor, Dell, Cisco, Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor and many more. The US tech industry is about to get a bomb dropped on its head by its own gov.
Cat74

Bolingbrook, IL

#74 Dec 29, 2013
I bet I can find Conservative Judges that rule the NSA did in fact violate my Constitutional rights. Going before a couple pansy judges proves nothing.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#75 Dec 29, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
Just this week there were two judges who ruled that the NSA is in no way violating the Constitution, and this administration is careful to ensure there are no violations.
Out of my league, that's bizarre coming from someone suffering from paranoid delusions of being listened to ....... maybe you should keep up with the legal cases surrounding this issue and stop repeating the stooge opinions on the matter.
You're looking for problems that aren't there.
Bottom line it's a continuation of a program started by George Bush and so says Judges, in good hands under Obama.
<quoted text>
hahahahaha liberal appointed judges are about as real as judge Judy.
1 post removed

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#77 Dec 29, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
You'd have to first identify the founders and agitators of the Revolution, and all of them to the man were Subjects of England, a Socialist State. The Ideas and programs institued in the colonies were very much socialist programs. Social Security is an extension of the poor laws from England scoped to fit the Colonies here in America in the colonial era. The concept of shared living was a necessity in carving out a living in the wilderness.
It's bunk to believe America was founding on Capitalism it's never existed by the definition, for years afer the creation of America or before the Creation of America.
America functioned under a concept of closed markets for a long time, Minorities like Native Americans, Blacks and any other were locked out of the market place in being denied opportunities to purchase and sell goods and materials or basic access to capital for investment.
The constitution gave congress authority to regulate markets, capitalism involves no regulation from the State. however, what would have been the cost of building a strong, stable society with the rule for law and order as it's stabilizing force?
You can look at third world communities to see the result of a society without stable institutions and no law and order.
<quoted text>
If the Founding Fathers were for providing for people they would been for Communism but they were not and did not believe in Government providing for People or it would have been spelled out in the Original US Constitution to begin with which it wasn't and they were not for public welfare programs like Social Security which is why Marx labeled the US is being founded on Socialism and what is called Marxism Socialism since the Government does not take care of and provide for people their basic needs which is not the role of Government in Socialism as Marxs states in his writings and it is up to people to provide for themselves their basics needs and not the Governments responsiblity like Liberals today think and no the Founding Fathers were not for Capitalism either because US Constitution is proof of that which goes against Capitalism and the reason is people can interfere with Government Economical Policy and have the ability to vote themselves other peoples wealth through Taxation by representation were in Capitalism the people cant intefere with Government Economical Policy where they have no say and do not have to fear Redistribution of Wealth by Taxation like we have seen here in the US recently.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#78 Dec 29, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
The more you put on these post the clearer it's become you have no idea about America, how the country developed, and who were the framers of the Constitution and where they got their idea for Government.
They were socialist........ the Constructs of the American Social Aid programs came with founders from England, many of them who where fortunate to have lands had them because they were granted lots to farm and build on from the State of England.
This social security program that is the most popular program was a program duplicated from the social aid programs in England.
What you think you know about capitalism, socialism and communism is laughable and out right ridiculous for an Adult to repeat.......
What group of immigrants in the 234 years after independence, that came from across the Atlantic where not socialist, or communist? Stop fooling yourself, hell there are a lot of you who families didn't come until the land was tame and settled after the industrial revolution. You have no connection to America as a wilderness.
Most all of us came from totalitarian regimes trying to escape a life of destitute and poverty. If there were any opportunity and freedom to be and live like human beings we would not have come to America.
<quoted text>
We all already know and it has become clear with every post you post that you don't know or have a clue or Idea that everything you advocate for goes against the what the US and the US Constitution was founded on and it is you that is laughable because you depend on government supported welfare programs & a welfare society which you have confirmed in one of post for your income is funded by Section 8 tax money by the Federal Government and a you have no clue of what Marxism Socialism, Capitalism, and Communsim are but it is obivous you favor a society that Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky advocated which means you are for a Totalitarian Society which todays Liberals are.
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#79 Dec 30, 2013
Then you have proven to know absolutely about America and it's creation or separation from England. It's doubtful based on your idea in the below post that you paid attention to the subject of American history in elementary school.
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>If the Founding Fathers were for providing for people they would been for Communism but they were not and did not believe in Government providing for People or it would have been spelled out in the Original US Constitution to begin with which it wasn't and they were not for public welfare programs like Social Security which is why Marx labeled the US is being founded on Socialism and what is called Marxism Socialism since the Government does not take care of and provide for people their basic needs which is not the role of Government in Socialism as Marxs states in his writings and it is up to people to provide for themselves their basics needs and not the Governments responsiblity like Liberals today think and no the Founding Fathers were not for Capitalism either because US Constitution is proof of that which goes against Capitalism and the reason is people can interfere with Government Economical Policy and have the ability to vote themselves other peoples wealth through Taxation by representation were in Capitalism the people cant intefere with Government Economical Policy where they have no say and do not have to fear Redistribution of Wealth by Taxation like we have seen here in the US recently.
Eric Gustafson

Newport News, VA

#80 Dec 30, 2013
You're contradicting yourself, anyone that takes government contracts and benefits from servicing aid programs such as supplying housing to section 8 recipients, or furnishing arms for the department of defense or accepts food stamps like Wal Mart does for a profit,.

It's not possible to believe in Communism, or Socialism and pursue profits from the Government for services rendered.

You really don't understand the words you fling around on these post. You should spend some time studying and researching the popular phases you want to use so that you can understand the positions you take.
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>We all already know and it has become clear with every post you post that you don't know or have a clue or Idea that everything you advocate for goes against the what the US and the US Constitution was founded on and it is you that is laughable because you depend on government supported welfare programs & a welfare society which you have confirmed in one of post for your income is funded by Section 8 tax money by the Federal Government and a you have no clue of what Marxism Socialism, Capitalism, and Communsim are but it is obivous you favor a society that Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky advocated which means you are for a Totalitarian Society which todays Liberals are.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#81 Dec 30, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
Then you have proven to know absolutely about America and it's creation or separation from England. It's doubtful based on your idea in the below post that you paid attention to the subject of American history in elementary school.
<quoted text>
you have proven that you no absolutely nothing about US of America and ifts foundings, creation, or separation from England and you so called Liberals want to be supported just like England wanted to be supported by the colonies which they rejected just like people are rejecting that same Ideology today but it is called Liberalism and if you paid real close attention to the subject of American History in Elementary School you would be able to see the similarities between the Modern day Liberals and How England wanted things which is just like how today's Modern Liberals want it too and this to profit from somebody elses work and wealth which the Liberals want to tax too.
anonymous

Absecon, NJ

#82 Dec 30, 2013
Eric Gustafson wrote:
You're contradicting yourself, anyone that takes government contracts and benefits from servicing aid programs such as supplying housing to section 8 recipients, or furnishing arms for the department of defense or accepts food stamps like Wal Mart does for a profit,.
It's not possible to believe in Communism, or Socialism and pursue profits from the Government for services rendered.
You really don't understand the words you fling around on these post. You should spend some time studying and researching the popular phases you want to use so that you can understand the positions you take.
<quoted text>
Disinformation is your bag, ain't it? How close IS Newport News to Arlington anyway?

OK, evoking the Founding Fathers is usually lame. They knew nothing of technology or terrorists. The best analogies would probably be to equate terrorists to privateers and guerrilla warfare. Let's face it, we weren't really the good guys there.

Technology? Well, in war, anything goes. The question is, ARE WE at war? No! Just plain NO! Now, we did have all sorts of important Constitutional stuff going on about protecting the American citizens against abuses by a professional military. There's the right to bear arms, the right to not quarter troops and so on.

Now, the question is: IS the NSA a military organization or isn't it? It's staff are mostly civilians but who is in charge there? That would be GENERAL Keith Alexander!

Now, there's also all that junk about unlawful search and seizure. We all know that the FISA courts have been rubber-stamping anything that anyone even takes the time to put on paper for them, but the honest truth is that you've got a NASTY weapon pointed at the public and I really doubt a single founding father would go along with that, and to heck with whether or not anyone's pulled the trigger.

I don't care what the current batch of pension chasing judges say, I see unconstitutional through and through.

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