"I Believe" License Plates May Never ...

"I Believe" License Plates May Never "See the Light of Day"

There are 602 comments on the snafu-ed.blogspot.com story from Jul 8, 2008, titled "I Believe" License Plates May Never "See the Light of Day". In it, snafu-ed.blogspot.com reports that:

In May, the South Carolina state legislature unanimously voted to endorse an "I Believe" license plate, bearing the image of a cross and a stained glass window. Governor Mark Sanford then allowed the bill to become law --- without his signature.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at snafu-ed.blogspot.com.

Keltec 9mm

Hollywood, FL

#602 Jul 15, 2008
underhay wrote:
<quoted text>
are you implying that the United States of America is a christian nation?
Depends what you mean by a Christian nation.
Population-Yes
perception-yes
legally -no.

"Two out of three ain't bad"
Meatloaf
underhay

Chapin, SC

#603 Jul 15, 2008
Keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
Depends what you mean by a Christian nation.
Population-Yes
perception-yes
legally -no.
"Two out of three ain't bad"
Meatloaf
perhaps population yes. but i will argue the perception with you. perception population-wise? perhaps. perception legally? a resounding NO.

but, remember, popular perception brought us American Idol!
Keltec 9mm

Hollywood, FL

#604 Jul 15, 2008
underhay wrote:
<quoted text>
perhaps population yes. but i will argue the perception with you. perception population-wise? perhaps. perception legally? a resounding NO.
but, remember, popular perception brought us American Idol!
Just plain old perception.

Large majorities of Republicans (87%), independents (65%) and Democrats (60%) denounced efforts by liberals to minimize religious influence in the public square, including 70% of conservative and moderate Democrats. Just 38% of liberal Democrats expressed this view.
The survey also found that two in three respondents (67%) characterize the United States as a Christian country. A decade ago, 60% so described the nation.
Sources: Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Note: The survey interviewed 2,003 adults nationwide by telephone, July 6-19, 2006.

2007
Sixty-five percent of Americans believe that the nation's founders intended the U.S. to be a Christian nation and 55% believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation, according to the “State of the First Amendment 2007” national survey released Sept. 11 by the First Amendment Center.
Four decades after the Supreme Court declared state-sponsored religious practices unconstitutional in public schools, 58% of respondents support teacher-led prayers and 43% favor school holiday programs that are entirely Christian. Moreover, 50% would allow schools to teach the Bible as a factual text in a history class.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx ...

Just plain old perception.
underhay

Chapin, SC

#605 Jul 15, 2008
Keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
Just plain old perception.
Large majorities of Republicans (87%), independents (65%) and Democrats (60%) denounced efforts by liberals to minimize religious influence in the public square, including 70% of conservative and moderate Democrats. Just 38% of liberal Democrats expressed this view.
The survey also found that two in three respondents (67%) characterize the United States as a Christian country. A decade ago, 60% so described the nation.
Sources: Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Note: The survey interviewed 2,003 adults nationwide by telephone, July 6-19, 2006.
2007
Sixty-five percent of Americans believe that the nation's founders intended the U.S. to be a Christian nation and 55% believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation, according to the “State of the First Amendment 2007” national survey released Sept. 11 by the First Amendment Center.
Four decades after the Supreme Court declared state-sponsored religious practices unconstitutional in public schools, 58% of respondents support teacher-led prayers and 43% favor school holiday programs that are entirely Christian. Moreover, 50% would allow schools to teach the Bible as a factual text in a history class.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx ...
Just plain old perception.
well then, thank goodness we have the constitution to protect us.
Keltec 9mm

Hollywood, FL

#606 Jul 15, 2008
underhay wrote:
<quoted text>
well then, thank goodness we have the constitution to protect us.
The states were not restricted by the establishment clause until 1947. So for 160 years we were at the whim of state constitutions many of which supported Christianity to one degree or another into the 1960s.(school prayer)
Recovering former xtian

Norwalk, OH

#607 Jul 15, 2008
Keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
Just plain old perception.
Large majorities of Republicans (87%), independents (65%) and Democrats (60%) denounced efforts by liberals to minimize religious influence in the public square, including 70% of conservative and moderate Democrats. Just 38% of liberal Democrats expressed this view.
The survey also found that two in three respondents (67%) characterize the United States as a Christian country. A decade ago, 60% so described the nation.
Sources: Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Note: The survey interviewed 2,003 adults nationwide by telephone, July 6-19, 2006.
2007
Sixty-five percent of Americans believe that the nation's founders intended the U.S. to be a Christian nation and 55% believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation, according to the “State of the First Amendment 2007” national survey released Sept. 11 by the First Amendment Center.
Four decades after the Supreme Court declared state-sponsored religious practices unconstitutional in public schools, 58% of respondents support teacher-led prayers and 43% favor school holiday programs that are entirely Christian. Moreover, 50% would allow schools to teach the Bible as a factual text in a history class.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx ...
Just plain old perception.
Religion: 2,000 plus years of tradition unchanged by science, logic or reason. Guns & Bibles, did you fall asleep in high school science, or was science abolished in Lexington KY? Land of 1 million people and 4 last names.
Recovering former xtian

Norwalk, OH

#608 Jul 15, 2008
Oops, Bubba, got your home town wrong, but the sentiment remains the same.
Keltec 9mm

Hollywood, FL

#609 Jul 15, 2008
Recovering former xtian wrote:
Oops, Bubba, got your home town wrong, but the sentiment remains the same.
Actually my hometown is Brooklyn N.Y. and we didn't have too many bubbas there. As I recall, we did manage to sell the bridge a few times to foreign tourists from Ohio.
Keltec 9mm

Hollywood, FL

#610 Jul 15, 2008
It was a Jesuit, Fr. J.B. Macelwane, who wrote Introduction to Theoretical Seismology, the first seismology textbook in America, in 1936. To this day, the American Geophysical Union, which Fr. Macelwane once headed, gives an annual medal named after this brilliant priest to a promising young geophysicist.

By the eighteenth century, the Jesuits

had contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter’s surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn’s rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon effected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics – all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents [Jonathan Wright, The Jesuits, 2004, p. 189].

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods40.html

George Ohm got his start by teaching in a Jesuit school, André Ampère attended one of their schools and worked for displaced Jesuit alumni during the 1830 Terror in France, and Alessandro Volta had for a short time belonged to the Jesuit Order.

At the entrance to the Smithsonian's Moon exhibit is a large copy of one of the earliest (1651) selenographs. This map taken from a Jesuit book Almagestum novum was composed by the Jesuit astronomers Riccioli and Grimaldi and across the top is written: "Neither do men inhabit the moon nor do souls migrate there". It is the best known of all selenographs and has been used by most scholars for lunar nomenclature for three centuries. During these centuries astronomers took turns naming and renaming craters which resulted in conflicting lunar maps. In 1922 the International Astronomical Union (I A U) was formed, and eventually eliminated these conflicts and codified all lunar objects: 35 of the 40 Jesuit names survived to be listed in the National Air and Space Museum (NASM) catalog which identifies about 1600 points on the moon's surface.
It would be a mistake to think that the Jesuit names are on selenographs only because other Jesuits put them there. Rather it was a convergence of astronomers' opinions over three centuries: map makers before and after Riccioli confirmed the decisions again and again that these 40 men deserved this honor. This is not surprising. Recent histories emphasize the enormous influence Jesuits had not only on mathematics but on the other developing sciences such as astronomy. Historians of science always listed a surprisingly large number of Jesuits among the greatest scientists and mathematicians of all time. They were at the cutting edge of the sciences. For instance, by the time of the suppression in 1773, of the world's 130 astronomy observatories, 30 were operated by Jesuits. Furthermore Jesuit names are still being added to the list by the I. A. U.
http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/jmac/sj/luna...

Your turn.
Recovering former xtian

Cuyahoga Falls, OH

#611 Jul 16, 2008
Keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually my hometown is Brooklyn N.Y. and we didn't have too many bubbas there. As I recall, we did manage to sell the bridge a few times to foreign tourists from Ohio.
Well, I have erred and I offer my Holy Confession. I'll say a Hail Odin and burn an owl feather.
Vince

Allen, TX

#612 Jul 16, 2008
Over 600 post about license plates...mamzing what some people think is important...LOL
Hunger, unemployment, war, high gas problems, recession, cancer...yeah this IS important. I check in from time to time for a good laugh. And I'm waiting for the usual and customary intelligent response if you don't care why come in here or the if you don't think it's imporant why come in here...for laughs will be the answer...LOL i like to see people deal with the important things in life...LOL

“Release the mind”

Since: Oct 07

Indy

#613 Jul 16, 2008
Vince wrote:
Over 600 post about license plates...mamzing what some people think is important...LOL
Hunger, unemployment, war, high gas problems, recession, cancer...yeah this IS important. I check in from time to time for a good laugh. And I'm waiting for the usual and customary intelligent response if you don't care why come in here or the if you don't think it's imporant why come in here...for laughs will be the answer...LOL i like to see people deal with the important things in life...LOL
It's not so much the license plate itself, it's the underpinnings behind it. I think the Constitution IS important and that's what the license plate issue comes down to.

BTW, looks like Kentucky will have to deal with this issue in the near future: http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/25466639.h...

Maybe if our 'leaders' would put forth their efforts on important things like hunger, cancer, etc. and not worry about shoving religion in everyones' faces on a stupid license plate, the country might actually move forward.
underhay

Lexington, SC

#614 Jul 16, 2008
Vince wrote:
Over 600 post about license plates...mamzing what some people think is important...LOL
Hunger, unemployment, war, high gas problems, recession, cancer...yeah this IS important. I check in from time to time for a good laugh. And I'm waiting for the usual and customary intelligent response if you don't care why come in here or the if you don't think it's imporant why come in here...for laughs will be the answer...LOL i like to see people deal with the important things in life...LOL
wow. you certainly seem to have time to fuss and complain in here, like the rest. why aren't YOU out improving this world?

sheesh...
keltec 9mm

New Orleans, LA

#615 Jul 16, 2008
Richey wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not so much the license plate itself, it's the underpinnings behind it. I think the Constitution IS important and that's what the license plate issue comes down to.
BTW, looks like Kentucky will have to deal with this issue in the near future: http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/25466639.h...
Maybe if our 'leaders' would put forth their efforts on important things like hunger, cancer, etc. and not worry about shoving religion in everyones' faces on a stupid license plate, the country might actually move forward.
The fine print says if you can read this you are driving too close.
Vince

Allen, TX

#616 Jul 16, 2008
underhay wrote:
<quoted text>
wow. you certainly seem to have time to fuss and complain in here, like the rest. why aren't YOU out improving this world?
sheesh...
Yes it took 1 whole minute of my ttime to fuss and complain...LOL
Yes 1 minute I lost to improving the world. Are you saying all this commotion about license plates is improving the world...LOL
Gee had to you make the limp from my post to I should be out improving the world. Who says I'm not...are you seeing you are in here?..improving the world that is...LOL

“Racin' Pagan”

Since: Oct 07

Columbia, MO

#617 Jul 16, 2008
OK There are a few problems with this.

1. The Lt Gov paid the fee and will be reembersed no body eles gets thier fee back.

2. If I want a image of a different religion I could do so following the same process and fee but I couldn’t have “I believe” under it. Why? I would be proclaiming my belief. I wouldn’t get my fee back. I wouldn’t get my plate fast tracked through the commity. There is a deffinate apperence of bias here favoring christianity.

3. The real problem here is the APPERENCE of the state favoring 1 religion over another.

There are a few ways to fix this.

1 The Lt Gov needs to with draw his money I am sure some church or another could raise the money very quickly to pay the fee and not be reembersed.

2. Any plate with religious implacations should be allowed to have the words “I Believe” across the bottom. Maybe even go as far as that being the only phrase allowed on a religious plate.

3.Any religious group requesting a plate like this should have thiers fast tracked as this one was. limiting the words at the bottom to “I Believe” would facilitate this. It would also show equality.

I am not against this plate what I don’t like is the limitations against the other plates not being allowed to use the same phrase”I Believe”. I also am against the fact that an elected official paid the fee and will get his money back when no other group would. The Lt Gov should have known better. He should have known this would be seen as him and through him the state indorcing one religion above another. Remember apperence is everything even in the court of law and public opnion.

The only exception to the “I Believe” phrase would be for the non-believers plates which would get “I Don’t Believe” at the bottom.

I really think I just solved everybodies problems.
underhay

Chapin, SC

#618 Jul 17, 2008
Columbia_MO wrote:
OK There are a few problems with this.
1. The Lt Gov paid the fee and will be reembersed no body eles gets thier fee back.
2. If I want a image of a different religion I could do so following the same process and fee but I couldn’t have “I believe” under it. Why? I would be proclaiming my belief. I wouldn’t get my fee back. I wouldn’t get my plate fast tracked through the commity. There is a deffinate apperence of bias here favoring christianity.
3. The real problem here is the APPERENCE of the state favoring 1 religion over another.
There are a few ways to fix this.
1 The Lt Gov needs to with draw his money I am sure some church or another could raise the money very quickly to pay the fee and not be reembersed.
2. Any plate with religious implacations should be allowed to have the words “I Believe” across the bottom. Maybe even go as far as that being the only phrase allowed on a religious plate.
3.Any religious group requesting a plate like this should have thiers fast tracked as this one was. limiting the words at the bottom to “I Believe” would facilitate this. It would also show equality.
I am not against this plate what I don’t like is the limitations against the other plates not being allowed to use the same phrase”I Believe”. I also am against the fact that an elected official paid the fee and will get his money back when no other group would. The Lt Gov should have known better. He should have known this would be seen as him and through him the state indorcing one religion above another. Remember apperence is everything even in the court of law and public opnion.
The only exception to the “I Believe” phrase would be for the non-believers plates which would get “I Don’t Believe” at the bottom.
I really think I just solved everybodies problems.
i have a problem with the spell-check on your computer. i think it must be broken.
underhay

Chapin, SC

#619 Jul 17, 2008
Vince wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it took 1 whole minute of my ttime to fuss and complain...LOL
Yes 1 minute I lost to improving the world. Are you saying all this commotion about license plates is improving the world...LOL
Gee had to you make the limp from my post to I should be out improving the world. Who says I'm not...are you seeing you are in here?..improving the world that is...LOL
thanks for your one minute. now, go away. improve my world!
Vince

Allen, TX

#620 Jul 17, 2008
underhay wrote:
<quoted text>
thanks for your one minute. now, go away. improve my world!
Improve your own world...... you have plenty to say and then want someone else to improve your world...LOL Take the license plate battle world wide that will improve things...LOL
underhay

Lexington, SC

#621 Jul 17, 2008
Vince wrote:
<quoted text>
Improve your own world...... you have plenty to say and then want someone else to improve your world...LOL Take the license plate battle world wide that will improve things...LOL
go on, now! git!

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