Colorado Shooting Rekindles Gun Control Debate

[Tray]

Where Is My America wrote:

<quoted text>I am not sure I want to give people on line lessons on how to kill but I could.
I was a firefighter and what your saying sounds good but is not true in practical terms.
No hour bleed out , I am looking at more like 5 Min's. before unconcense.
Urban areas you don't have 1 to 2 hour bleed outs.

The point I'm making is in a life or death situation you want your opponent down now not minutes from now. Shot placement always trumps caliber. In a real life situation when adrenalin is flowing or drugs are involved your opponent may not even know they are hit unless severe damage is done immediately. As I've said they can do a lot of damage in those few minutes. Ask any deer hunter who has had to track a deer a half mile or better after hitting it with a high powered rifle, no mouse gun, even with a lethal hit.

[eternal cynic]

okb2 wrote:

47% of Americans are either drunk, illiterate or both.
47% of Americans usually don't vote.
Unfortunetly for America, they are not the same 47%.

I vote, am literate and seldom drink. Where does that place me?

[eternal cynic]

barefoot2626 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah... thing is: it isn't self-defense if you get out of a car and chase someone down the street (against the orders of the police), confront him, and then shoot him in the chest because you bit off more than you can chew.

You might want to review all the evidence before making an idiot statement like that.

[eternal cynic]

Tray wrote:

<quoted text> I could pave my driveway with the 1911's I've had, the last was a Springfield loaded about a year ago, it grouped 19 inches at 20 feet and cost $1400. The most accurate out of the box was a Llama I gave $300 for but it still could not keep up with most of my "cheap" revolvers and had a jam issue. My first 1911 issued was a Colt but I could throw it and hit you faster than shooting you. I took it to a gun smith who charged me another $600 to get it to be even close to accurate and that was years ago $600 not today's $600. As I tell everyone, when you look to buy a gun if they sell a lot of parts or upgrades for it then it's because you need them. If there are none or few upgrade parts then it's because it don't need them. Big supply = big demand , Small supply = small demand. 1911 = extremely large supply of upgrade parts. Hmmm.

I’ve never seen a 1911 that bad. 19” group at 20 feet? Were the sights loose and flapping in the wind? At 20’ with no sights I would expect better than 19” at 20 feet.

[Tray]

eternal cynic wrote:

<quoted text>
I’ve never seen a 1911 that bad. 19” group at 20 feet? Were the sights loose and flapping in the wind? At 20’ with no sights I would expect better than 19” at 20 feet.

Imagine how I felt after dropping that kind of money.

[Prep-for-Dep]

Armed Veteran wrote:

<quoted text>.380ACP = 9 x 17 (also called the 9mm Kurz)
9mm Luger or Parabellum = 9 x 19

Yep. There's several names for the .380 ACP including .380 Auto, 9mm Browning, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurtz, 9mm Short, and 9X17mm.
With that many names, you'd think James Bond would be mentioned in there somewhere. Lol.

[Tray]

Prep-for-Dep wrote:

<quoted text>
Yep. There's several names for the .380 ACP including .380 Auto, 9mm Browning, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurtz, 9mm Short, and 9X17mm.
With that many names, you'd think James Bond would be mentioned in there somewhere. Lol.

Using a larger frame .380, hotter powder, replace the recoil spring with a stronger one and load a 115 grain bullet and BOOM you have a 9mm. Don't expect to reload the spent cases though. "LEGAL NOTICE" don't try this at home. All stunts performed by experts on a closed course.

[barefoot2626]

eternal cynic wrote:

.
Statistics prove conceal carry works with minimal unjustified use of firearms..

They prove no such thing.

Then, statistics don matter much to the gun gnutters who make them up on the fly.

[barefoot2626]

eternal cynic wrote:

.
I agree, carrying a gun doesn’t always ensure your safety. But, it does level the playing field..

Not so much for women who end up looking at the barrel end of the gun hubby bought for "self-defense".

[Gods shoeshine]

just another guy wrote:

<quoted text>I have not seen a decent 1911 at $300 for a long time. The min now is probably $500 for a functional gun.$300 might6 get you a frankengun.

Of course I figure any gun I buy will require an equal amount of $ be spent on accessories.

I was talking 12gage I'd pay no less then 7-800 for the greatest pistol around

[Gods shoeshine]

I wanted a cc gun that I felt would fire when I needed it to I could of got 2 hi point 45 but I got a .380 keltech I'll get a 45 soon but I'll take a small round that fires over a large that jams

[NoBlamer 2012]

I saw this sign at the gun show

"my neighbor is anti gun
they dont believe in protecting their property
you can rob my neighbor risk free"

I protect my property with shotguns and handguns.

you decide which house to rob"

its a true story where the sign bearer got sued

[Prep-for-Dep]

Tray wrote:

<quoted text>Using a larger frame .380, hotter powder, replace the recoil spring with a stronger one and load a 115 grain bullet and BOOM you have a 9mm. Don't expect to reload the spent cases though. "LEGAL NOTICE" don't try this at home. All stunts performed by experts on a closed course.

I personally like the 41 Magnum. It's perfect combination of bullet mass and velocity with the reliability of a revolver.
Hardly anyone seems to have heard of it though. I don't know why it never caught on.

[Where Is My America]

Prep-for-Dep wrote:

<quoted text>
I personally like the 41 Magnum. It's perfect combination of bullet mass and velocity with the reliability of a revolver.
Hardly anyone seems to have heard of it though. I don't know why it never caught on.

Expensive ammo.

I remember this gun being marketed to state police agencies as a good gun for cops who have to operate without the luxury of back up , having superior knock down power over the 9mm.

Hollywood put the .44 mag. on the map for a lot of people and the price of both the gun and ammo came down but this never happened for the .41 mag.

I was going to buy a .41 for the reasons you like it but went with a .44 for the economics.

[Dr Freud]

eternal cynic wrote:

<quoted text>
I’ve never seen a 1911 that bad. 19” group at 20 feet? Were the sights loose and flapping in the wind? At 20’ with no sights I would expect better than 19” at 20 feet.

All things considered, there really are but two things to consider when judging performance:
The crown treatment of the muzzle
The quality of the ammo
In the former, the crown determines the overall accuracy of the gun. If even one part of the rifling is just a tad bit off, that will throw the accuracy significantly. Remember: It's that last bit of the rifling which may very well bias the bullet's direction.
In the latter, the balance of the bullet itself determines the accuracy otherwise.
If you employ match ammo with the gun, and the accuracy is crappy, then you should have gunsmith evaluate the crown treatment of the muzzle.
If after the muzzle has been checked, and the accuracy is still 'wild,' then either the ammo is crap, or the gunsmith is.

[Dr Freud]

barefoot2626 wrote:

<quoted text>
They prove no such thing.
Then, statistics don matter much to the gun gnutters who make them up on the fly.

"Then, statistics don matter much ..."
According to yourself, right?

[Dr Freud]

barefoot2626 wrote:

<quoted text>
Not so much for women who end up looking at the barrel end of the gun hubby bought for "self-defense".

When was the last time that happened?
Got news story?

[NoBlamer 2012]

Gun Control Yard Sign

Jack, my neighbor is a "lefty" of sorts (Obama bumper stickers,
gung-ho socialized medicine, "guns should be banned", etc.). So last
week I put this sign up in my yard after one of his anti-gun rants at a
neighborhood cocktail party. The sign wasn't up more than an hour before
he called the police and wanted them to make me take down the sign.

Fortunately, the officer politely informed him that it was not their job to take
such action without a court order and that he had to file a complaint "downtown"
first, which would be reviewed by the city attorney to see if it violated any city,
county, or state ordinances, which if there was a violation a court order would be sent to the offending party (me) to "remove the sign in seven days".

After several weeks he was informed that the sign was legal (by a quarter of an inch) and there was nothing the city could do, which obviously made him madder. I tried to smooth things over by inviting him to go shooting with me and my friends at the hunt club but that seemed to make him even more angry.

I then asked him if he wanted to go to a Tea Party rally but again he declined my outreach efforts to bring about a better understanding between political and social opponents...

I am at a loss how to reconcile our long relationship (notice I did not say friendship), any suggestions would be welcome. Anyway, that's life in our neck of the woods. How's about yours?

http://www.panamalaw.org/images/gun_yard_sign...
http://www.panamalaw.org/gun_control_yard_sig...

[Prep-for-Dep]

Where Is My America wrote:

<quoted text>Expensive ammo.

I remember this gun being marketed to state police agencies as a good gun for cops who have to operate without the luxury of back up , having superior knock down power over the 9mm.

Hollywood put the .44 mag. on the map for a lot of people and the price of both the gun and ammo came down but this never happened for the .41 mag.

I was going to buy a .41 for the reasons you like it but went with a .44 for the economics.

Yes. Ironically, the reloading potential is much better for the .41 than the .44.

[NoBlamer 2012]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ea48E3Vodcs/SuXtrFq...