Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

Jun 25, 2013 Full story: Reuters 1,518

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Full Story
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1397 Sep 4, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
To be clear, not EVERY tall structure has killed birds that I'm aware of, but the potential is there to do significant harm as more and more are built, as has been proven in the past by multiple different mass casualties at various towers. Some not even located along a major migratory route.
Honestly, your memory is failing you. I posted a few weeks ago many dead birds in Washington, D.C. that the park service had documented.

Now you post this nonsense.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1398 Sep 4, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you at least post some photos of those "stunted growth" trees caused by air pollution?
Even a six year old would laugh at your request.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#1399 Sep 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Yes, I have all the proof I need that fossil fuel production & use causes more pollution than renewable energy. So do all the scientists. Btw, oil was once more expensive and less efficient than burning coal; and coal was once more expensive and less efficient than burning wood, but through mass production & govt backed monopolies & tax breaks, the prices & efficiencies of oil & coal got to where they are now.
Then, show me a comparison of waste produced by building solar panels, wind turbines and fossil fuel. BTW, prices always change; the market is a dynamic system.
Jeff

Beckley, WV

#1400 Sep 5, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Even a six year old would laugh at your request.
Just tell him you can't.
PHD

Fentress, TX

#1401 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
It's far more than just "some" for an industry that claims to be green.
If it was just "some," I wouldn't be adamently speaking out against it.
To date you provide no real data. You only speak out to support your political agenda. If you were at all concern about our feathered friends your agenda would be all inclusive.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1402 Sep 5, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Honestly, your memory is failing you. I posted a few weeks ago many dead birds in Washington, D.C. that the park service had documented.
Now you post this nonsense.
I saw no such post. I was off of here a few weeks ago.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1403 Sep 5, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Even a six year old would laugh at your request.
As they would about the claim that humans are stunting the growth of trees.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1404 Sep 5, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
DEATHS FROM FOSSIL FUEL POLLUTION
Science, one of the most prestigious scientific journals, states that: "Deaths from air pollution have been ranked as one of the top 10 causes of disability by the World Health Organization" of the United Nations.(5)
A research report by the World Health Organization and the World Resources Institute states that 700,000 lives could be saved per year from the diseases caused by particulate matter emitted by fossil fuels if their consumption were reduced by 18% in developed nations and by 9% in the developing nations. They also state that 2/3 of fossil fuels are consumed in developed nations.(6) This results in a: 18% x 2/3 + 9% x 1/3 = 15% reduction in total fossil fuel use, which means that: 700,000 lives 15%= 4.7 million people die each year from particulate pollution from fossil fuels.
This report further states: "Because the study followed a conservative approach, the benefits may be far greater than those estimated. For example, estimates include only avoidable deaths among adults more than 30 years old and infants less than one year old. In addition, by focusing only on deaths that could be avoided by reducing particulates, the study did not estimate health benefits less dramatic -- but much greater overall -- such as avoidable illness and days lost from work. Nor did it consider deaths associated with pollutants other than particulates." [italics added]
We assume that an approximately equal number of years of life are lost due to non-particulate fossil fuel pollutantion as are lost due to particulate pollutantion. These non-particulate pollutants include: nitric and sulfuric acids and oxides, ozone, carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, etc. We assume that an equal number of people die from non-particulate pollution or die between the ages of 1-30, then approximately: 4.7 million x 2 = 9.4 million people die each year from fossil fuel pollution.
(5) Science, August 17, 2001, p.1257-9, referring to: C. J. L. Murray, A. D. Lopez, Editors, "The Global Burden of Disease: A Comprehensive Assessment of Mortality and Disability from Diseases, Injuries and Risk Factors in 1990 and Projected to 2020", Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1996.(6) This Working Group included collaborators from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. Agency for International Development, Harvard University, and the University of California, Berkeley. Their report, "The Hidden Benefits of Climate Policy: Reducing Fossil Fuel Saves Lives Now", is available at: www.wri.org/publications/climate . This study refers to: "Short-Term Improvements in Public Health from Global-Climate Policies on Fossil-Fuel Combustion: an Interim Report", in the Lancet,(the most prestigious medical journal), vol.350, pp1341-1348.
Repeat needed.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1405 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw no such post. I was off of here a few weeks ago.
Hahaha six posts!

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...

There you are on the same page:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...

You say anything without evidence.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1406 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
As they would about the claim that humans are stunting the growth of trees.
You are playing dumb again.

Have you heard of the Love Canal?

What about the dead great lakes?

Oh the smoke chimneys?

You definitely have the most overgrown arrogance in this forum.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1407 Sep 5, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Just tell him you can't.
Let's hear from you!

Check out how that poster is dishonest about pollution or anything else.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1408 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
NOTHING can be safely 100% of the time.
Which is precisely why we need to stop drilling oil; all the safety measures in the world won't prevent the next oil spill. It's only a matter of when & where the next spill occurs, and how bad it will be this time.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1409 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
None of that is nonsense when you are the one that has to live near it.
I'd rather look at this:
http://www.bing.com/images/search...
Than this:
http://www.bing.com/images/search...
First one is quieter too and it won't give you turbine syndrome.
That's your choice.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1410 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, if they weren't such a hazard to birds,(and a huge wildlife habitat destroyer) I'd have no problem with the noise or obstructed view. I just simply wouldn't live near them. I don't like noise and I love beautiful views of the horizon.
Exactly how I feel about oil wells, coal mines, oil refineries, coal-fired power plants, etc.

Unfortunately it's not just the noise or the view which is being destroyed by our addiction to oil & coal.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1411 Sep 5, 2013
WARRIOR wrote:
<quoted text>Not me. I like OIL! We are an OIL driven nation! We will always use OIL in your lifetime! Drill baby drill!
That's because you're an idiot.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1412 Sep 5, 2013
WARRIOR wrote:
<quoted text>Electric vehicles? LMAO! I can see an electric Semi hauling freight across the United States! How do you propose electricity move something this big and heavy? How about electric vehicles in extreme cold temperatures at high elevations? You don't think things out well do you!
Again, you're an idiot.

Electricity is able to move a carrier or supertanker across oceans from one continent to another. The only limit is how that electricity is generated.

Why do we need semis hauling freight across country? That's what rail lines are for.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1413 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
If I wasn't 100% sure that tall structures.... ALL tall structures....kill birds- sometimes by the thousands in one single evening....I wouldn't spend so much precious time talking about this sh** and trying to make people see what's happening before it's too late.
So what's your solution for all those other tall structures?

Are you lobbying to prevent any new buildings over a single story from being built anywhere in the country?

Are you lobbying to prevent any more cell towers from being built?

No, your entire focus is on wind turbines, because you're an anti-wind power nutjob.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1414 Sep 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Then, show me a comparison of waste produced by building solar panels, wind turbines and fossil fuel. BTW, prices always change; the market is a dynamic system.
If you need that info feel free to google it.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1415 Sep 5, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
If I wasn't 100% sure that tall structures.... ALL tall structures....kill birds- sometimes by the thousands in one single evening....I wouldn't spend so much precious time talking about this sh** and trying to make people see what's happening before it's too late.
No. Not that. I was asking if you were sure that you would not be speaking out so adamantly if it were just some instead of many birds being killed. I suspect you would speak out adamantly even if it were only one dead bird.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1416 Sep 5, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Suburbs of Toledo?
My neighbor's land is an undeveloped tract, also cleared by the tornado. There are no houses close to me.
Pine seedlings can grow three feet a year.
Back to the books, little girl.
They can, can they?
The average is only about 1 foot per year. Only one or two varieties of pines in the world can grow as you say, and the only one that commonly meets your stretch of growth per year would be the Afghan Pine, or the Aleppo Pine. Not many of those in your neck of the woods.
The only domestic pine that can hope to meet your 3 feet per year is the White Pine, and it will not grow that fast in the wild. It only grows that fast with individual care and proper fertilizer.
You are correct that some can grow that fast, but you make it sound like it is the norm. That is simply not true. Pines, as a rule are rather slow growing trees.

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