Obama takes on power plant emissions ...

Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#713 Aug 1, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
WTS, why do the laws of supply and demand not work in the fuel market? I'm curious about your answer.
Because the oil & gas barons will charge the maximum possible price for a gallon of gas that the sheeple will tolerate regardless of how much oil & gas they may have.

They can just leave any excess oil in the ground or in storage, and though gasoline already refined does have a limitation on storage, they can take refineries off line for "maintenance" or "changing blends" or other "unexpected shutdowns" to keep from building up an excess of gas.

Gas is 3 times what we paid in the 1990's (even adjusted for inflation), while production is at record high levels not seen for over 20 years. If excess capacity/supply affected prices, then prices should be LOWER today than the $1/gal average of the 1990's. But instead gas is $3.50-$4 because the DEMAND is there.

So while the coming shortages in supply will indeed drive prices higher than we've ever contemplated, for now they are able to keep plenty of supply and are able to charge whatever the sheeple demand to pay.

Currently the sheeple are demanding to pay $3.50-$4/gal. In fact, they'll line up around the block just to pay $3.75/gal.

Now why would the oil & gas barons lower their price with that kind of demand?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#714 Aug 2, 2013
WTS, why do the laws of supply and demand not work in the fuel market"
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Because the oil & gas barons will charge the maximum possible price for a gallon of gas that the sheeple will tolerate regardless of how much oil & gas they may have.
And big labor barons or Big university barons don't "charge the maximum possible price"? Do you know of any other market where self interest doesn't define the pricing strategy?

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
They can just leave any excess oil in the ground or in storage, and though gasoline already refined does have a limitation on storage, they can take refineries off line for "maintenance" or "changing blends" or other "unexpected shutdowns" to keep from building up an excess of gas.
Just as a union might limit the number of members by raising qualification standards? Or MSNBC might limit the number of commercial minutes by filling the time with public service announcements? Can you name any producer who can't leave excess production in storage?

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Gas is 3 times what we paid in the 1990's (even adjusted for inflation), while production is at record high levels not seen for over 20 years. If excess capacity/supply affected prices, then prices should be LOWER today than the $1/gal average of the 1990's. But instead gas is $3.50-$4 because the DEMAND is there.
Before 12/1/90, California's state and federal excise taxes together were 18/gallon, now they are 53.7/gallon. Gas taxes are almost three times higher today than in the early 1990. And what have we gotten for these increased taxes?

Since the '70s and Jimmy Carter, our government has been telling us to use less gas, encouraging conservation. This must stop; we need an energy policy that encourages the production and use of energy and fuel. Let's start by cutting taxes, repealing intrusive regulations and stopping wasteful spending on new Solyndras.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
So while the coming shortages in supply will indeed drive prices higher than we've ever contemplated, for now they are able to keep plenty of supply and are able to charge whatever the sheeple demand to pay.
But WTS just said, production levels are at record highs; what "coming shortages"? With new technology, we have access to more fossil fuel than ever before; there is no shortage, just bad energy policy.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Currently the sheeple are demanding to pay $3.50-$4/gal. In fact, they'll line up around the block just to pay $3.75/gal.
People will always try to save money by spending less and producers will always try to get money by charging more; this is the law of supply and demand.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Now why would the oil & gas barons lower their price with that kind of demand?
Increased supply, lowering regulatory market restrictions will force oil and gas barons to lower prices; else customers will "line up around the block" at the next baron's gas station.
litesong

Everett, WA

#715 Aug 2, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
Did b_gone graduate from hs in the last five years of posting the same stuff?
'lyin' brian' is proud of its poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa, which had no science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc that it successfully completed. Its major omissions of its education is reflected in its erroneous flights of mystical mathematics, earning errors of 1 million TIMES, 1000 TIMES, 3000 TIMES, 73 million TIMES, & 2.5+trillion TIMES.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#716 Aug 2, 2013
litesong wrote:
'lyin' brian' is proud of its poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa, which had no science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc that it successfully completed. Its major omissions of its education is reflected in its erroneous flights of mystical mathematics, earning errors of 1 million TIMES, 1000 TIMES, 3000 TIMES, 73 million TIMES, & 2.5+trillion TIMES.
litesong is a liar about everything except being proud of my diploma. Why does he repeat this lie?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#717 Aug 2, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
WTS, why do the laws of supply and demand not work in the fuel market"
<quoted text>And big labor barons or Big university barons don't "charge the maximum possible price"? Do you know of any other market where self interest doesn't define the pricing strategy?
.
<quoted text>Just as a union might limit the number of members by raising qualification standards? Or MSNBC might limit the number of commercial minutes by filling the time with public service announcements? Can you name any producer who can't leave excess production in storage?
.
<quoted text>Before 12/1/90, California's state and federal excise taxes together were 18/gallon, now they are 53.7/gallon. Gas taxes are almost three times higher today than in the early 1990. And what have we gotten for these increased taxes?
Since the '70s and Jimmy Carter, our government has been telling us to use less gas, encouraging conservation. This must stop; we need an energy policy that encourages the production and use of energy and fuel. Let's start by cutting taxes, repealing intrusive regulations and stopping wasteful spending on new Solyndras.
.
<quoted text>But WTS just said, production levels are at record highs; what "coming shortages"? With new technology, we have access to more fossil fuel than ever before; there is no shortage, just bad energy policy.
.
<quoted text>People will always try to save money by spending less and producers will always try to get money by charging more; this is the law of supply and demand.
.
<quoted text>Increased supply, lowering regulatory market restrictions will force oil and gas barons to lower prices; else customers will "line up around the block" at the next baron's gas station.
Of course others charge the maximum price as well- it's called capitalism. That doesn't change fact that supply has nothing to do with the price of gas- at least as long as we have enough to meet demand. Excess oil doesn't bring down the price of gas- only decreased demand does that.

Most food producers can't leave excess supply in storage, but the big difference is manufactured goods must be stored at a cost to the person storing it. Oil can just be left in the ground indefinitely with no charge to the oil companies at all.

I'd rather we stop giving TRILLIONS is special breaks to the oil, gas, & coal barons. We could balance the budget tomorrow just by charging them what they owe in environmental, health, and war costs.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#718 Aug 2, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
WTS, why do the laws of supply and demand not work in the fuel market"
<quoted text>And big labor barons or Big university barons don't "charge the maximum possible price"? Do you know of any other market where self interest doesn't define the pricing strategy?
.
<quoted text>Just as a union might limit the number of members by raising qualification standards? Or MSNBC might limit the number of commercial minutes by filling the time with public service announcements? Can you name any producer who can't leave excess production in storage?
.
<quoted text>Before 12/1/90, California's state and federal excise taxes together were 18/gallon, now they are 53.7/gallon. Gas taxes are almost three times higher today than in the early 1990. And what have we gotten for these increased taxes?
Since the '70s and Jimmy Carter, our government has been telling us to use less gas, encouraging conservation. This must stop; we need an energy policy that encourages the production and use of energy and fuel. Let's start by cutting taxes, repealing intrusive regulations and stopping wasteful spending on new Solyndras.
.
<quoted text>But WTS just said, production levels are at record highs; what "coming shortages"? With new technology, we have access to more fossil fuel than ever before; there is no shortage, just bad energy policy.
.
<quoted text>People will always try to save money by spending less and producers will always try to get money by charging more; this is the law of supply and demand.
.
<quoted text>Increased supply, lowering regulatory market restrictions will force oil and gas barons to lower prices; else customers will "line up around the block" at the next baron's gas station.
While there is adequate supply now-(even excess supply- yet prices remain high)- the coming shortages will be when the billions of people in China & India start consuming oil & gas at the level of Americans.

When that happens, there is no way production will ever keep up with demand. That's when we will see actual shortages and empty pumps as we wait for the warships to escort another tanker safely to our refineries.

Nope, adequate or excess supply has nothing to do with gas prices. Only demand affects gas prices.

Nope, since the oil & gas barons are all in collusion and charge within a penny of each other in the same market, you have no option but to pay the price they tell you to pay. There is no competition.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#719 Aug 3, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Of course others charge the maximum price as well- it's called capitalism. That doesn't change fact that supply has nothing to do with the price of gas- at least as long as we have enough to meet demand. Excess oil doesn't bring down the price of gas- only decreased demand does that.
In every market, increasing supply brings down prices when demand doesn't increase too. There is no magic that protects oil barons from supply and demand; except their crony pals in Washington.

Did you notice how WTS skips over the effect of taxes and regulations on the energy and fuel markets? He has a vested interest in high energy prices; he's on the side of OPEC.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Most food producers can't leave excess supply in storage, but the big difference is manufactured goods must be stored at a cost to the person storing it. Oil can just be left in the ground indefinitely with no charge to the oil companies at all.
Every produces manages supply and oil left in the ground means continued lease payments without offsetting income from production.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
I'd rather we stop giving TRILLIONS is special breaks to the oil, gas, & coal barons. We could balance the budget tomorrow just by charging them what they owe in environmental, health, and war costs.
Please describe these TRILLIONS in "special breaks to the oil, gas, & coal barons"; I could use a good laugh.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#720 Aug 3, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>In every market, increasing supply brings down prices when demand doesn't increase too. There is no magic that protects oil barons from supply and demand; except their crony pals in Washington.
Did you notice how WTS skips over the effect of taxes and regulations on the energy and fuel markets? He has a vested interest in high energy prices; he's on the side of OPEC.
.
<quoted text>Every produces manages supply and oil left in the ground means continued lease payments without offsetting income from production.
.
<quoted text>Please describe these TRILLIONS in "special breaks to the oil, gas, & coal barons"; I could use a good laugh.
Obviously not in oil & gas markets, otherwise prices would have been dropping over the past few years with all the excess oil we've been producing.

Obviously those lease payments aren't enough to cause the oil companies to drill on all the land they currently have leased but aren't pumping on. And gas prices still stay high even will all that excess supply they maintain.

Yep, just more proof that only a decrease in demand can bring prices down.

The trillions in special breaks include forgiving the environmental destruction, damage to Americans health, and of course all the war costs to keep the cheap oil flowing.

And I don't support OPEC or ANY oil/gas corporation; all oil/gas imports should be banned immediately. The OPEC nations can go back to humping camels.

And our own oil & gas reserves should be nationalized and used ONLY for Americans.
SpaceBlues

United States

#721 Aug 3, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
'lyin' brian' is proud of its poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa, which had no science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc that it successfully completed. Its major omissions of its education is reflected in its erroneous flights of mystical mathematics, earning errors of 1 million TIMES, 1000 TIMES, 3000 TIMES, 73 million TIMES, & 2.5+trillion TIMES.
Thanks for the update.

Have a nice weekend.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#722 Aug 3, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Obviously not in oil & gas markets, otherwise prices would have been dropping over the past few years with all the excess oil we've been producing....
Nor if the dollar has been falling faster than oil prices. Our government has been borrowing and printing money at unprecedented rates; oil prices have been falling against gold prices.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#723 Aug 3, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
...And I don't support OPEC or ANY oil/gas corporation; all oil/gas imports should be banned immediately. The OPEC nations can go back to humping camels. And our own oil & gas reserves should be nationalized and used ONLY for Americans.
WTS claims he isn't supporting OPEC but his fascist government policies play into OPEC's hand. Get the government out of the energy markets and encourage the production and use of energy and fuel.

“Liberal Teachers ruin Kids”

Since: Mar 09

Paradise Valley Arizona

#724 Aug 3, 2013
The problem is these liberals haven't a clue of what a smoke stack or a cooling tower is.
One has exhaust from burning fuel, and the other just sheds condensation, and they do not know which is which, because they are naturally ignorant.

what they do know is they want to tax and regulate anything they can.
conservative crapola

Bethlehem, PA

#725 Aug 3, 2013
Vance1 wrote:
What we know is that your governor threw you under the bus and did what was right for Arizona. Signed onto Obamacare medicaid expansion. Breath easy AZ.
SpaceBlues

United States

#726 Aug 3, 2013
Vance1 wrote:
The problem is these liberals haven't a clue of what a smoke stack or a cooling tower is.
One has exhaust from burning fuel, and the other just sheds condensation, and they do not know which is which, because they are naturally ignorant.
what they do know is they want to tax and regulate anything they can.
Your knowledge is pitifully tiny in the vast fields of science and technology.

Sorry to burst your bubble; hope you don't commit suicide. Instead learn about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower

and this:

http://www.ipcc.ch/activities/activities.shtm...

“Liberal Teachers ruin Kids”

Since: Mar 09

Paradise Valley Arizona

#727 Aug 3, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Your knowledge is pitifully tiny in the vast fields of science and technology.
Sorry to burst your bubble; hope you don't commit suicide. Instead learn about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower
and this:
http://www.ipcc.ch/activities/activities.shtm...
I am glad you went a looked it up...Good for you
Now you will not be confused any longer

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#728 Aug 3, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Nor if the dollar has been falling faster than oil prices. Our government has been borrowing and printing money at unprecedented rates; oil prices have been falling against gold prices.
Since no one pays for their gas in with gold, that's really irrelevant.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#729 Aug 3, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>WTS claims he isn't supporting OPEC but his fascist government policies play into OPEC's hand. Get the government out of the energy markets and encourage the production and use of energy and fuel.
How does the US banning all imported oil- including from OPEC countries- play right into their hand?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#730 Aug 3, 2013
Vance1 wrote:
The problem is these liberals haven't a clue of what a smoke stack or a cooling tower is.
One has exhaust from burning fuel, and the other just sheds condensation, and they do not know which is which, because they are naturally ignorant.
what they do know is they want to tax and regulate anything they can.
Without govt regulation you wouldn't be able to go outside in any major metro area without a gas mask with your own O2 supply. Rivers & lakes would be devoid of life and taking a swim would result in your skin peeling off like an acid bath. There would be no topsoil left to grow crops, and the subsoil would be so polluted it wouldn't be able to support life of any kind.

Without govt regulation big business would have rendered our country uninhabitable a decade ago.
lollman

West Mifflin, PA

#731 Aug 3, 2013
youtube.com/watch...
Amazing issues
SpaceBlues

United States

#732 Aug 3, 2013
Vance1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you went a looked it up...Good for you
Now you will not be confused any longer
I'm glad that your comprehension is nil and comparable to your knowledge base. I did not go anywhere to look up anything. DUH!

If you were to read the link, you would know you were wrong. LOL.

P.S. A typical denier thinks others are confused when herself is the one in a confused state. She promises to me no more confusion! Weird.

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