Lesbian couple in gay marriage case prepares for Supreme Court decision

Full story: Fox News 1,568
Big change is coming to the lives of the lesbian couple at the center of the fight for same-sex marriage in California no matter how the Supreme Court decides their case. Full Story

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#480 Apr 4, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never handed me a single coherent, logical response. 57 ticks and you still don't have a start on a brain.
Here is one of many. These facts were known and ignored by organizations such as the APA which exposes their unprofessional bias.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...
This is actually an 'excellent' study. The whole ssm support community rejects it, because it blows their whole ss parents are the same as mom/dad married and in the home theory out of the water....

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#481 Apr 4, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk about a discredited study! Regnerus''study' is a joke.
American Sociological Association calls out, obliterates anti-gay parenting study
http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.com/2013/03...
This study is accurate and true...what's a joke is the way the ss community had their hissy fit and tried to get this guy discredited when it came out...it didn't work, because the findings are real....

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#482 Apr 4, 2013
Get That Fool wrote:
<quoted text>
You are such a kool-aid drinker....a 'few' studies show lesbians raising 'very young' children show no significant differences...hardly anything to hang your hat on....
and zero that can refute them...

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#483 Apr 4, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>and zero that can refute them...
You 'do' realize that very young children are not cognizant of male/female differences and mother/father roles don't you??? That's like taking a study of switching calves (you know...bay cows) at birth and saying they don't have any developmental problems at 2 months old. Talk about jokes...

...and where are the ss male couples in these studies??? Answer---THEY DON'T EXIST....put the kool-aid down....dum-b azz-es like you are dangerous with just a little misinformation...

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#484 Apr 4, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>all studies done have shown that SScouples are equally fgood parents and the children suffer no ill effects from vbeing raised by a sscouple. none.
Not 'all' studies.....

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#485 Apr 4, 2013
Get That Fool wrote:
<quoted text>
You 'do' realize that very young children are not cognizant of male/female differences and mother/father roles don't you??? That's like taking a study of switching calves (you know...bay cows) at birth and saying they don't have any developmental problems at 2 months old. Talk about jokes...
...and where are the ss male couples in these studies??? Answer---THEY DON'T EXIST....put the kool-aid down....dum-b azz-es like you are dangerous with just a little misinformation...
i know several kids that were raised by SS couples. perfectly normal.

you have no proof that SS couples raising children will harm those children in any way. just your prejudice making shit up again...

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#486 Apr 4, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i clearly showed that you didn't even know where that loan you parroted came from the US gov't even really came from...
you were repeating crap you didn't even understand, like any good parrot!
which study did you link debunk?
You are a ridiculous liar.....

The Vindication of Mark Regnerus

by Matthew J. Franck
within Marriage, Science


October 31st, 2012


Mark Regnerus’s response to his critics shows more clearly that instability is characteristic of same-sex relationships and that stable same-sex parented households are virtually non-existent. Second of a two-part series.


Yesterday on Public Discourse, I described the controversy that followed the publication of the New Family Structures Study (NFSS), led by University of Texas sociologist Mark Regnerus. During a summer

-------of unusual abuse,---------

Regnerus remained largely silent but with his head unbowed. As autumn arrived, he found himself vindicated as an honest scientist by his university, with continued support from the journal editor who published his research.

In the November 2012 issue of Social Science Research, Regnerus has published a new article:“Parental same-sex relationships, family instability, and subsequent life outcomes for adult children: Answering critics of the new family structures study with additional analyses.” He accepts “arguably the most reasonable criticism” of his original work, the use of the abbreviations “LM”(for lesbian mother) and “GF”(for gay father) to characterize the family situations experienced by his young adult subjects when they were children.

Since the adjectives “lesbian” and “gay” could lead readers to infer something about these parents’ self-identified “orientation”(though in his original article Regnerus clearly dispelled this misapprehension), he now exchanges “LM” for “MLR”(mother who had a lesbian relationship) and “GF” for “FGR”(father who had a gay relationship), so that the adjectives “lesbian” and “gay” now describe the relationships, not the persons. Regnerus also pauses to note the extreme unlikelihood that his categories swept in any “one-night stand” relationships, since the NFSS interviews asked young adults about romantic relationships they would have observed as children.

Keep reading....

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#487 Apr 4, 2013
Regnerus addresses at much greater length the more serious charge that he compared apples to oranges by placing a sample of “MLR” and “FGR” families with high incidence of instability next to his “IBF” cases of intact biological families (married heterosexual couples that stay together and raise their own offspring to maturity). His critics insisted that he should compare intact, long-term stable gay and lesbian couples with his “gold standard” IBF households.

On this point, Regnerus yields no ground to his critics whatsoever, but instead only strengthens his case that family instability is not a variable to be controlled for so that it falls out of the comparison; rather it is a “pathway” down which MLR and FGR families typically travel as a social reality.

To begin with, Regnerus notes,“if stability is a key asset for households with children, then it is sensible to use intact biological families in any comparative assessment.” But could Regnerus have produced a data set with a higher number of “stably-coupled” gay or lesbian households? He doubts it.

Keep reading....

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#488 Apr 4, 2013
In his original article, he reported that an initially-screened population of 15,000 young adults aged 18-39 yielded a set of 163 who said their mothers had had a same-sex relationship sometime during their childhood.(There were only 73 who said this of their fathers.)

In his new article, Regnerus has re-sorted a dozen of the FGR cases into the MLR category (since in these cases the subjects reported that both parents had had same-sex relationships). Now focusing on his 175 subjects in the MLR category, he finds that fewer than half of them (85) ever lived with both their mother and her same-sex partner during their childhood.

But that low number tapers off dramatically when subjects report the length of the couple-headed period:“31 reported living with their mother’s partner for up to 1 year only. An additional 20 reported this relationship for up to 2 years, five for 3 years, and eight for 4 years.” He later adds that “only 19 spent at least five consecutive years together, and six cases spent 10 or more consecutive years together.”

How many children were raised by two women staying together from the child’s first birthday to his or her eighteenth? Just two.

------And how many such cases were there in the FGR category—of children raised by two men together for their whole childhood? Zero.--------

This, out of an initial population of 15,000.

Keep reading...

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#489 Apr 4, 2013
I recite these numbers to make a point of my own that fairly leaps off the pages of Regnerus’s work: that family instability is the characteristic experience of those whose parents have same-sex relationships. This is what Regnerus is getting at when he says that critics who want him to treat stability as a “control variable” are actually “controlling for the pathways.” To go on an endless search for a sizable random sample of long-term, stable same-sex couples raising children is to miss the social reality in front of us, namely that they are conspicuously missing from the lives of children whose parents have same-sex relationships.

Doggedly responding to his critics, however, Regnerus divides his MLR cases into two further categories, those in which children never lived with their mother’s same-sex partner (90 cases), and those in which they did for any length of time at all (85 cases), and takes another look at his outcome variables, while also slicing his other categories thinner, of divorce, remarriage, single parenthood, adoption, etc.

Unfortunately for his critics, it makes very little difference. On multiple outcomes,

---------the children of mothers who had lesbian relationships fared poorly, whether those mothers had a partner in the household with their children or not,---------

and these two groups were more like each other than like the intact biological family (IBF) category. As Regnerus notes,“adult children who report a maternal same-sex relationship—regardless of whether their mother ever resided with her same-sex partner—look far more similar to adult children of other types of household than they do to those from stably-intact biological families.”

You get the jist.....this study is truthful, this study is 'real', this study is correct....
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#490 Apr 4, 2013
Get That Fool wrote:
<quoted text>
This study is accurate and true...what's a joke is the way the ss community had their hissy fit and tried to get this guy discredited when it came out...it didn't work, because the findings are real....
No they aren't.

First, the Regnerus study does not specifically examine children born or adopted into same-sex parent families, but instead examines children who, from the time they were born until they were 18 or moved out, had a parent who at any time had “a same-sex romantic relationship.”. As Regnerus noted, the majority of the individuals characterized by him as children of “lesbian mothers” and “gay fathers” were the offspring of failed opposite- sex unions whose parent subsequently had a same-sex relationship. In other words, Regnerus did not study or analyze the children of two same-sex parents.

Second, when the Regnerus study compared the children of parents who at one point had a “same-sex romantic relationship,” most of whom had experienced a family dissolution or single motherhood, to children raised by two biological, married opposite-sex parents, the study stripped away all divorced, single, and stepparent families from the opposite-sex group, leaving only stable, married, opposite-sex families as the comparison... Thus, it was hardly surprising that the opposite-sex group had better outcomes given that stability is a key predictor of positive child wellbeing. By so doing, the Regnerus study makes inappropriate apples-to-oranges comparisons.

Third, Regnerus’s first published analysis of his research data failed to consider whether the children lived with, or were raised by, the parent who was, at some point, apparently involved in “a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex” and that same-sex partner. Instead, Regnerus categorized children as raised by a parent in a same-sex romantic relationship regardless of whether they were in fact raised by the parent and the parent’s same-sex romantic partner and regardless of the amount of time that they spent under the parent’s care. As a result, so long as an adult child believed that he or she had had a parent who had a relationship with someone of the same sex, then he or she was counted by Regnerus as having been “raised by” a parent in a same-sex relationship.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#491 Apr 4, 2013
Fourth, in contrast to every other study on same-sex parenting, Regnerus identified parents who had purportedly engaged in a same-sex romantic relationship based solely on the child’s own retrospective report of the parent’s romantic relationships, made once the child was an adult. This unusual measurement strategy ignored the fact that the child may have limited and inaccurate recollections of the parents’ distant romantic past.

Finally, the study fails to account for the fact that the negative outcomes may have been caused by other childhood events or events later in the individual’s adult life, particularly given that the vast majority (thirty-seven of forty) of the outcomes measured were adult and not childhood outcomes. Factors other than same-sex parenting are likely to explain these negative outcomes in the Regnerus study. Regnerus himself concludes that “I am thus not suggesting that growing up with a lesbian mother or gay father causes suboptimal outcomes because of the sexual orientation or sexual behavior of the parent.”
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#492 Apr 4, 2013
In sum, by conflating (1) children raised by same-sex parents with (2) individuals who reportedly had a parent who had “a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex,” and referring to such individuals as children of “lesbian mothers” or “gay fathers,” the Regnerus study obscures the fact that it did not specifically examine children raised by two same-sex parents. Accordingly, it cannot speak to the impact of same-sex parenting on child outcomes.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#493 Apr 4, 2013
Get That Fool wrote:
I recite these numbers to make a point of my own that fairly leaps off the pages of Regnerus’s work: that family instability is the characteristic experience of those whose parents have same-sex relationships. This is what Regnerus is getting at when he says that critics who want him to treat stability as a “control variable” are actually “controlling for the pathways.” To go on an endless search for a sizable random sample of long-term, stable same-sex couples raising children is to miss the social reality in front of us, namely that they are conspicuously missing from the lives of children whose parents have same-sex relationships.
Doggedly responding to his critics, however, Regnerus divides his MLR cases into two further categories, those in which children never lived with their mother’s same-sex partner (90 cases), and those in which they did for any length of time at all (85 cases), and takes another look at his outcome variables, while also slicing his other categories thinner, of divorce, remarriage, single parenthood, adoption, etc.
Unfortunately for his critics, it makes very little difference. On multiple outcomes,
---------the children of mothers who had lesbian relationships fared poorly, whether those mothers had a partner in the household with their children or not,---------
and these two groups were more like each other than like the intact biological family (IBF) category. As Regnerus notes,“adult children who report a maternal same-sex relationship—regardless of whether their mother ever resided with her same-sex partner—look far more similar to adult children of other types of household than they do to those from stably-intact biological families.”
You get the jist.....this study is truthful, this study is 'real', this study is correct....
No one expects fundies to understand statistics and validity, and CERTAINLY not you.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#494 Apr 4, 2013
Get That Fool wrote:
Regnerus
Sweetie, the reality is this, any claim that Regnerus's "research" has painted an accurate representation of the effects of having grown up with lesbian mothers and/or gay fathers is obscene. His qualifications for having been raised by lesbian mothers and/or gay fathers, vague to the point of including parents who themselves would not identify as being lesbian and/or gay. It would not have been published if it had undergone a legitimate peer review process, one which did not include people who had actually worked on parts of it being the ones to review it. Even if you buy the premise that all his Lesbian mothers and/or Gay fathers really are lesbian and gay, being demographically representational of lesbian and gays, it is a far bigger train wreck. His "average" lesbian mother and/or gay father? Black, in their 50's, high school graduate at best and living in rural areas of the South. I only tick one of those boxes, how about you?

We know better hon. All your wasted effort for naught. There just ain't no redemption for the irredeemable. This is one you should just let go, it's even more embarrassing for your side of the debate than even I got into.

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#495 Apr 4, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Sweetie, the reality is this, any claim that Regnerus's "research" has painted an accurate representation of the effects of having grown up with lesbian mothers and/or gay fathers is obscene. His qualifications for having been raised by lesbian mothers and/or gay fathers, vague to the point of including parents who themselves would not identify as being lesbian and/or gay. It would not have been published if it had undergone a legitimate peer review process, one which did not include people who had actually worked on parts of it being the ones to review it. Even if you buy the premise that all his Lesbian mothers and/or Gay fathers really are lesbian and gay, being demographically representational of lesbian and gays, it is a far bigger train wreck. His "average" lesbian mother and/or gay father? Black, in their 50's, high school graduate at best and living in rural areas of the South. I only tick one of those boxes, how about you?
We know better hon. All your wasted effort for naught. There just ain't no redemption for the irredeemable. This is one you should just let go, it's even more embarrassing for your side of the debate than even I got into.
Funny you should mention 'inaccurate representation'.....

Same-sex parenting and children’s outcomes: A closer examination of the American psychological association’s brief on lesbian and gay parenting
Loren Marks,
Louisiana State University, 341 School of Human Ecology, Baton Rouge, LA 70803, United States
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2012.0... , How to Cite or Link Using DOI

Abstract

In 2005, the American Psychological Association (APA) issued an official brief on lesbian and gay parenting. This brief included the assertion:“Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents”(p. 15). The present article closely examines this assertion and the 59 published studies cited by the APA to support it. Seven central questions address:
(1) homogeneous sampling,
(2) absence of comparison groups,
(3) comparison group characteristics,
(4) contradictory data,
(5) the limited scope of children’s outcomes studied,
(6) paucity of long-term outcome data, and
(7) lack of APA-urged statistical power. The conclusion is that strong assertions, including those made by the APA, were not empirically warranted. Recommendations for future research are offered.

Highlights

-A 26 of 59 APA studies on same-sex parenting had no heterosexual comparison groups.
-In comparison studies, single mothers were often used as the hetero comparison group.
-No comparison study had the statistical power required to detect a small effect size.
-Definitive claims were not substantiated by the 59 published studies.

Funny what political pressure can do to 'professionals'....

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#496 Apr 4, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
No one expects fundies to understand statistics and validity, and CERTAINLY not you.
Do you understand the 'statistical validity' in your own 'failed' reports???

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#497 Apr 4, 2013
Get That Fool wrote:
Funny you should mention 'inaccurate representation'.....
Marks' findings were far from revelatory dear, it was known all along that individually, really none of the existing studies were expansive enough to draw definitive conclusions. Long term studies are expensive by design and the money to study same sex parenting, not readily available. Not that having the kind of money at your disposal is going to guarantee a decent study, Regnerus had a small fortune available to him and look what he churned out.

Eeality, while none of the existing studies are expansive and scientifically rigorous enough to draw any definitive conclusions as to the overall effectiveness of same sex parenting, that does not equate with there is nothing we can learn from them, as Marks asserts. by the by, you may want to check into Marks' dubious role in the Regnerus disaster. His "review" of the existing studies, not a coincidence.

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#498 Apr 4, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Marks' findings were far from revelatory dear, it was known all along that individually, really none of the existing studies were expansive enough to draw definitive conclusions. Long term studies are expensive by design and the money to study same sex parenting, not readily available. Not that having the kind of money at your disposal is going to guarantee a decent study, Regnerus had a small fortune available to him and look what he churned out.
Eeality, while none of the existing studies are expansive and scientifically rigorous enough to draw any definitive conclusions as to the overall effectiveness of same sex parenting, that does not equate with there is nothing we can learn from them, as Marks asserts. by the by, you may want to check into Marks' dubious role in the Regnerus disaster. His "review" of the existing studies, not a coincidence.
Do you believe the studies that say having ss parents don't effect children???'Dear'....

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#499 Apr 4, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Marks' findings were far from revelatory dear, it was known all along that individually, really none of the existing studies were expansive enough to draw definitive conclusions. Long term studies are expensive by design and the money to study same sex parenting, not readily available. Not that having the kind of money at your disposal is going to guarantee a decent study, Regnerus had a small fortune available to him and look what he churned out.
Eeality, while none of the existing studies are expansive and scientifically rigorous enough to draw any definitive conclusions as to the overall effectiveness of same sex parenting, that does not equate with there is nothing we can learn from them, as Marks asserts. by the by, you may want to check into Marks' dubious role in the Regnerus disaster. His "review" of the existing studies, not a coincidence.
His techniques and results were deemed 'credible'...what don't you get???

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Judge overturns Montana's gay marriage ban Nov 24 Reverend Alan 59
Supreme Court denies stay, illegal immigrants t... Nov 22 Ace Millner 6
Supreme Court halts order allowing illegal immi... Nov 22 Ace McMillan 11
Couples Anxious to Grab First Idaho Same-Sex Ma... Nov 20 The real zeke 24
US District Court of Montana Strikes down same-... Nov 20 Sterkfontein Swar... 1
Sandoval: No Need for Court to Rehear Gay Marriage Nov 14 Yakitori 2
A look at whata s next for gay marriage in US Nov 10 WeTheSheeple 3

Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE