Guns and justice

There are 106 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jun 7, 2009, titled Guns and justice. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

Supporters of the Chicago ordinance prohibiting handguns may be forgiven for thinking that the 2nd Amendment may not be a problem after all.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

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Pete

Chicago, IL

#1 Jun 7, 2009
Finally someone gets it. Total gun prohibition does no good at all. But locking up thugs caught with illegally obtained guns would go a long way.
WCCH

United States

#2 Jun 7, 2009
When will Illinois judges start taking criminals who carry guns seriously? The same thing could be said about those who violate protection orders. Why do they wait for someone to die before they put these felons away?

Since: Jan 09

Chicago

#3 Jun 7, 2009
If Daley was really concerned about stopping gun violence he needs to do a few things. First of all stop being a sanctuary city. He needs to enforce ALL laws and not just the laws he wants to enforce. Secondly, team up with the federal prosecutors and charge these violators with the federal crime under the Gun Control Act of 1968 which covers the following:

1. Anyone who has been convicted in a federal court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
2. Anyone who has been convicted in a state court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 2 years, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
3. Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
4. Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
5. Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
6. Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.
7. Anyone who has been discharged from the US Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
8. Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
9. Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
10. Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (added in 1996).

This was done very successfully in Baltimore were gun violence went down since the criminals didn't want want to do state and federal time since they are 2 separate jurisdictions.

Further the State of Illinois needs to pass a preemption law that will make all 7,000 Illinois jurisdictions gun laws the same.
marsares

United States

#4 Jun 7, 2009
Yes, the gun ban in Chicago is obviously working tremendously!!!
I always thought if a judicial system was allowing your kids to get shot to pieces by criminals ( you know, the people who aren't letting the gun ban stop them from SHOOTING people.) Then a neighborhood should arm itself and fight back, but that's only if you're the violent crime capital of the world.
Cyclone

Arlington Heights, IL

#5 Jun 7, 2009
The Chicago gun ban won't go away. King Ritchie will cling to that until the bitter end, regardless of how irrational and useless the ban may be.
Denny Crane

AOL

#6 Jun 7, 2009
Cyclone wrote:
The Chicago gun ban won't go away. King Ritchie will cling to that until the bitter end, regardless of how irrational and useless the ban may be.
You forgot to mention he will spend almost every last dollar of ours fighting the useless ban.The last dollar will go for the Olympics.

“Play nice together.”

Since: Jan 09

Naperville, IL

#7 Jun 7, 2009
Seems to me that Judge Bertina Lampkin should be charged as an accessory to this crime. I hope this judge never has good nights sleep again.
Pony

United States

#8 Jun 7, 2009
But Little Richie Daley still has his own armed bodyguards, doesn't he?

It is the right of the individual to protect himself from harm. Back in the days when the Constitution was drafted, a person was considered irresponsible if he did not carry a weapon.

Nowadays, you get called a warmonger or troublemaker if you carry a weapon, especially in places like Chicago (and the rest of IL, for that matter).

I am so glad I moved from IL to a concealed carry state. Lower crime due to the fact that the bad guys have to stop and consider if their target can defend him/herself.
Pete

Chicago, IL

#9 Jun 7, 2009
Cook County judges are so soft on violent crime it isn't funny. No wonder gangbangers have no fear.
bob1stshirt

Westmont, IL

#10 Jun 7, 2009
So, judges WONT lock up criminals who are using guns to commit crimes and Chicago (and Illinois) politicians WONT let law-abiding citizens protect themselves.(Chicago outlaws gun ownership and Illinois won't pass a CC law.)

What we need is for a few more liberals to be violently attacked. Maybe then there'll be enough people voting for politicians who will let us defend ourselves.
Bolingbrook Al

United States

#11 Jun 7, 2009
We NEED to bring CCW to Illinois. Other states are doing it, and their crime rate has gone down. The 2nd ammendment was written for Mr & Mrs U.S. citizen to protect their lives and property. Making guns illigal just gives the criminals the upper hand!
Burke

Chicago, IL

#12 Jun 7, 2009
"It tells nothing about how the Chicago ordinance will fare once it reaches the highest court in the land. Much as we wish it were otherwise, the landmark 2nd Amendment verdict offers little hope that the city's ban will survive."

You make me sick.... It's people like you who destroy our country. Rapping our constitutional rights taking what you want throwing away what you do not understand. It’s my guess that you have never shot a gun or grew up around them. This ban, this gun control has never worked it sadly has made our city less safe. Its time for us to take our safety back. You lefties have destroyed this city and state enough.

The only thing you got right is that we need to be harder on the gangs and the people who use guns for wrong.

Stop punishing us law-abiding citizens and go after the thugs.
Matthew Brown

United States

#13 Jun 7, 2009
Criminals don't care about probation or supervision, they only listen to jail or prison.

Give a crook 2 years probation, his only question "do I have to do time?" No time, he wins.

The scumbags that are responsible for the death of Officer Valadez didn't care about any laws. They only care if they go to jail.

Honest law abiding citizens care about laws and obey them. That's why they are law abiding citizens. Criminals disobey them, that's why they are criminals.

Emperor Daley is out of touch, it helps when you've been surrounded by armed guards your entire life. Let him ride his bicycle on Lake Shore Drive one day without his armed guards. Ha!

“The quo has no status”

Since: Oct 08

Glen Ellyn, IL

#14 Jun 7, 2009
Pony wrote:
But Little Richie Daley still has his own armed bodyguards, doesn't he?
It is the right of the individual to protect himself from harm. Back in the days when the Constitution was drafted, a person was considered irresponsible if he did not carry a weapon.
Nowadays, you get called a warmonger or troublemaker if you carry a weapon, especially in places like Chicago (and the rest of IL, for that matter).
I am so glad I moved from IL to a concealed carry state. Lower crime due to the fact that the bad guys have to stop and consider if their target can defend him/herself.
As a fellow former Illinoisan, I can tell you that, SLOWLY, things are changing. I still make a living in Cook County, but reside in Indiana. Conceal Carry is gaining momentum, corruption is FINALLY being assailed, although mostly in word, not in deed. And voters SEEM as though they are going to wake up as to how they're being bamboozled. But, then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they voted for the Devil they know. It IS still Illinois after all.
guess what

Quincy, IL

#15 Jun 7, 2009
Laws on guns are not made for the outlaws. They are made to make honest people outlaws.

If the politicians were serious, they would make gun crime violations such as armed robbery have MINIMUM sentences or mandatory enhancements, prohibiting probation, or making prison mandatory for a gang member with a gun.

A homeowner with a gun is protecting himself. A criminal or gang member with a gun is out to make YOU a victim, not the other way around.
J in KC

Jefferson City, MO

#16 Jun 7, 2009
The Second Amendment, among many other things, is intended to give Americans ultimate recourse over any corrupt, overreaching, out of control government. Good thing we don't have any of those around.
Pony

United States

#17 Jun 7, 2009
J in KC wrote:
The Second Amendment, among many other things, is intended to give Americans ultimate recourse over any corrupt, overreaching, out of control government. Good thing we don't have any of those around.
Darned near spewed my tea all over the keyboard and monitor.

Yeah, yeah... None of those in THIS fine land. <sigh>
Ed Rison

Bolingbrook, IL

#18 Jun 7, 2009
The problem isn't, exclusively, the guns. The right to gun ownership is something for which every U.S. citizen who believes in the importance of constitutional rights should stand up. But, just like a citizen's right to vote, the right to gun ownership should be sacrificed by those who are convicted of felonious crimes. Moreover, the legal system ought to take very seriously this revocation and whenever a person is found to have violated the law again by possessing a firearm, should bring to bear a stiff penalty for said violation.

“LONELY BEACON OF TRUTH”

Since: Oct 07

Drifter

#19 Jun 7, 2009
Not to defend Lampkin, but typically a gun case in Chicago is someone who just has a gun to defend themselves. For instance, the felony of Unlawful Use of A Weapon sounds pretty severe. But what is the law really?

Well, an old man with a handgun, and no FOID Card, is an example of an Unlawful Use of A Weapon. So is a woman, facing a stalker, protecting herself with a gun.

Do these sound like felons to you? To the Chicago PD they are in the same category as a gang banger robbing a liquor store, with a nickle plated .45.

On top of that, you have cops who have absolutely no idea what the gun law in Illinois actually says. They are the first to complain about gun laws not being enforced, and the last to have the first inkling of what they are talking about.

Want some proof? Ask ten cops how to legally transport a weapon in the state of Illinois. You will get ten totally different answers. They have no clue. They just see a gun, arrest, waste the courts time, and then cry about the laws not being enforced.

To give you an example: During a bogus arrest, a friend of mine had a copy of the law (ILCS) on him regarding transportation of firearms. He handed it to the cop, who tossed it on the ground saying, "That's Bu**Sh*t!" and arrested him anyway. Typical bone headed cop. The cop got his overtime for court. The case got laughed out of court. But not until my pal was out $5K for a shyster. Street justice for the cop? Sure. But how many civilians will now kiss cop butt in public, but in private not shed a tear for them?

Until cops get over their, "everyone with a gun is my enemy, except my fellow badges," this will be the way it is in Illinois. More cops will sadly be gunned down in the process.

Who's responsible? I suggest every politician (especially Mayor Daley) take a long look in the mirror. Then every cop, look in the mirror. Do you really know gun law, or are you just a badge, a gun, and law unto yourself?

Making enemies of law abiding citizens is probably not a good strategy, but it is the strategy the police have chosen. Good luck with that.
Pete

Chicago, IL

#20 Jun 7, 2009
Jester-Chicago wrote:
If Daley was really concerned about stopping gun violence he needs to do a few things. First of all stop being a sanctuary city. He needs to enforce ALL laws and not just the laws he wants to enforce. Secondly, team up with the federal prosecutors and charge these violators with the federal crime under the Gun Control Act of 1968 which covers the following:
1. Anyone who has been convicted in a federal court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
2. Anyone who has been convicted in a state court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 2 years, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
3. Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
4. Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
5. Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
6. Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.
7. Anyone who has been discharged from the US Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
8. Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
9. Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
10. Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (added in 1996).
This was done very successfully in Baltimore were gun violence went down since the criminals didn't want want to do state and federal time since they are 2 separate jurisdictions.
Further the State of Illinois needs to pass a preemption law that will make all 7,000 Illinois jurisdictions gun laws the same.
The Baltimore program was abandoned because it was too successful. Crime was actually going down. They no longer prosecute gun crimes aggressively because it was supposedly racist to do so. Now they're the murder capital of the nation.

Politicians like to have street crime, so they can have something to promise to "crack down on".

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