It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103299 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Dec 10

Geraldton, Australia

#102243 Mar 6, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> So the fact Saddam had already invaded a peaceful neighbor and killed hundreds, was under a treaty to allow inspections as a condition of stopping the whipping his forces were taking. His refusal to honor that agreement and proof he was rearming. The fact he personally made daily threats against UN countries. The fact (which was proven) he was committing genocide on his own people. Yes according to you the UN should have just stood by while he continued his killing spree. Why don't you ask so Iraq citizens if they wish he was back in power and we would have just let him have his way. Ask the parents of the girls his son raped and fed to the family dogs if they want him back. I guess we should have let Hitler kill ALL the Jews and leave a bloody path across Europe and kept our nose out of it. Being a sheep like you really works great for those who died at the hands of these murderers.
Don't make out just because Sadam was a tyrant that this is why America attacked him(LOL) it was good enough for America to deal with him abusing and torturing and committing genocided against his people when America need to use him against Iran....No! America did not attack Iraq because Sadam was a monster or to protect the poor people....the yanks had their own agenda ....This is what I mean about stupid yanks....911 had nothing to do with Hussien, he didn't have any WMDs all this was proved yet America still doesn't get it...it is like the kid caught with his hand in the candy jar denying that he was trying to steal the candy when the evidence is staring them in the face.

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#102244 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
A: only by those using the gun......gun clubs have many members that have their guns located and they clean them on site....(in Australia)
..... etc.
The bottom line is a choice between "the lesser of two evils". As opposed to Club storage, domestic storage of guns is the lesser of two evils. There are sound reasons why.

Not far from where I live is a Range. Whenever I drive past I see a bold sign displayed prominently beside the entrance: "NO guns or ammunition stored on these premises". It has always been there. Why would a Club that has been operating for decades be so emphatic?

Presumably over the years hundreds of shooters have been members. The sign at the entrance is a decision upheld by a succession of Club management committees. As a security policy it must reflect the collective wisdom of those most familiar with matters involving guns. It seems reasonable to accept that they know what they are talking about, wouldn't you agree?
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#102247 Mar 6, 2013
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
What are some examples of legislation that doesn't infringe on individuals rights?
What are some examples of legislation that does, other than allegedly gun legislation?
Other than allegedly gun legislation? The name of the forum is, It's the Guns Stupid.

But, if you must, read up on NDAA and the Patriot Act.

I can see this could turn into a who's on first, what's on second sketch.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#102248 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
PS. is this what you had in mind when you spoke about a fically responsible government?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/03/07/0...
Bummer eh?:)
Exactly. I might add a government that invaded a country and over through its leader without a declaration of war as per the constitution. That would be limited federal power also a tea party platform.

Spocko

Oakland, CA

#102250 Mar 6, 2013
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't have health insurance you can walk into any ER in the country and be treated.
That is how it's being done without National Healthcare, it is know as “last resort medical treatment”!, at a cost of 60 billion a year to the taxpayer, people without insurance are charged at a much higher rate than those covered by insurance!
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#102252 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
A society democratically votes for a committee and leader to represent them and to effect laws, laws that you agreed to as a democracy, no different from putting your name on a any contract....Why don't you produce the argument that no senator or congressman should take money from companies like the NRA with an agenda to work in total oposition to YOUR democratically elected government.... you don't so therefore you can't attack a government that in order to keep control of the office for the people they must enact laws that "some" don't agree with for the betterment and safety for all....that is true democracy, it is only those who have a dual standard that see the goverment criminalising, what they are doing in your best interest....So in truth the government must fight all oposition to their election, and those that are elected that are not in office for the people but for monetary gain.
We are a constitutional republic, not a democracy, although we are fast becoming a democracy. A democracy is a system where the minority is subject to the dictatorship of the majority. In our case, the economic majority is permitted to rob the treasury to the point where we might collapse.

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
&#8213; Alexis de Tocqueville

BTW, the tea party is against special interests and government.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#102253 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
They all use brainwashing or scarmongering to advance their agenda's, and your government in particular used this to good effect on the UN and their allies in order to invent a war with Iraq...in that regard they can and have been guilty of brainwashing the masses....
That isn't any different than what I said. Were you agreeing with me?
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#102255 Mar 6, 2013
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
That is how it's being done without National Healthcare, it is know as “last resort medical treatment”!, at a cost of 60 billion a year to the taxpayer, people without insurance are charged at a much higher rate than those covered by insurance!
Were you referring to the emergency room? If you were, that's not true. People with insurance pay a higher premium due to emergency room costs. The hospital charges the insurance company more for other services to make up for emergency room costs.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#102260 Mar 6, 2013
Pro gun ad by Star Parker. She is also the author of the book, "The Government Plantation"

http://www.therightscoop.com/new-ad-by-star-p...

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#102261 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
cont:
I think the government would have access to their own arsenal and not need to come and get yours
According to that logic the government must have found itself short of guns, so it conducted buybacks and amnesties to re-stock its arsenal. Right?

If not, then why did it stage its grabs for guns? Weren't those grabs more about disarming citizens ... regardless of 'government arsenal'?

And if a government can grab once, it can grab again. Right?

If so, then we've circumnavigated a 'Red Herring' and come full circle back to my previous observation that a rogue government could find guns collectively stored at Clubs a convenient grab. TOO convenient.:)
Ahomana wrote:
....mind you in saying that there are still a lot of unregistered guns in Australia bought in by law abiding citizens....they are the real danger....so the government should make all gun owners sign a declaration that they have no illegal weapons and then do the occassional spot search by a team specifically organised to locate and seize unregistered weapons. and if any are found it should be a mandatory jail term.......
All fully targeted by existing legislation!!... which however is not adequately staffed or enforced.(where have I heard that theme before?:))

Since: Dec 10

Geraldton, Australia

#102262 Mar 6, 2013
The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
The bottom line is a choice between "the lesser of two evils". As opposed to Club storage, domestic storage of guns is the lesser of two evils. There are sound reasons why.
Not far from where I live is a Range. Whenever I drive past I see a bold sign displayed prominently beside the entrance: "NO guns or ammunition stored on these premises". It has always been there. Why would a Club that has been operating for decades be so emphatic?
Presumably over the years hundreds of shooters have been members. The sign at the entrance is a decision upheld by a succession of Club management committees. As a security policy it must reflect the collective wisdom of those most familiar with matters involving guns. It seems reasonable to accept that they know what they are talking about, wouldn't you agree?
Yes, Now in saying that has there ever been a robbery at the clubs that have this warning? Now in acknoledging that you must then also apply the same logic to gun clubs here where there are no signs of warning ....and yet to be a robbery or even an attempted one at the club where registered guns are most often stored, where they have been regarded as a safe place to keep the guns used for target practice for many years as well?:)
Guppy

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#102263 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes we did, and we gave sympathy and support and aid to a country that had just suffered a great shock and tragedy after 911, that is what good friends do, we know this, America does not!.....No one would have expected their compassion and aid would be abussed by a calculated and cold hearted American government who was willing to use the events of all those killed at 911 to attack an innocent country and kill, they lied....Fool me once!
Very true.
Ahomona is a retard

Vilnius, Lithuania

#102265 Mar 6, 2013
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Ahomona is a retard

Vilnius, Lithuania

#102266 Mar 6, 2013
Ahomona is a fat lazy loud mouth know-it-all idiot who is addicted welfare.

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Since: Dec 10

Geraldton, Australia

#102267 Mar 6, 2013
The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>According to that logic the government must have found itself short of guns, so it conducted buybacks and amnesties to re-stock its arsenal. Right?
If not, then why did it stage its grabs for guns? Weren't those grabs more about disarming citizens ... regardless of 'government arsenal'?
And if a government can grab once, it can grab again. Right?
A: NO, no and no.
If so, then we've circumnavigated a 'Red Herring' and come full circle back to my previous observation that a rogue government could find guns collectively stored at Clubs a convenient grab. TOO convenient.:)
A: Gun grabs were not the reason for the buy back and using your nouse you are well aware of the reason and truth behind it..What you are stating is pure gun owning paranoia that is clearly the result of brainwashing and more the concerns over losing the guns whatever the logic or force behind it, than the reality of an attempt to save the community the horror of Port Arthur....bad form there Adelaidean.

All fully targeted by existing legislation!!... which however is not adequately staffed or enforced.(where have I heard that theme before?:))
A: Yes you have, but there is some truth in that. The rest of it is nonsense with no justification to attack a government that allowed you to keep your guns, just not those that can kill en masse so it was not an across the board ban or confiscation it was giving you something to get all the guns off the street that either people no longer wanted or that were part of the high powered ones that were banned. In truth if the government was gun grabbing they didn't need to ask your permission or pay you a cent....they did that to show gun owners there was no need to feel threatened...and that only worked on the sane.:)
Ahomona is a retard

Vilnius, Lithuania

#102268 Mar 6, 2013
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Since: Dec 10

Geraldton, Australia

#102269 Mar 6, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
That isn't any different than what I said. Were you agreeing with me?
I beleive the answer is yes.

Since: Dec 10

Geraldton, Australia

#102271 Mar 6, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. I might add a government that invaded a country and over through its leader without a declaration of war as per the constitution. That would be limited federal power also a tea party platform.
And where was the Tea parties voice of dissent....it could not be heard by American.....so did they open their mouths to object at all against the government and their lies at all? The answer to that is written in history, there were but a few brave Americans that shouted lies, and they were touted as traitors by the American public...I hope it gave them some satisfaction to know they were proved right and your government and the rest of your brainwashed citizens were left not trusted by your allies and with egg on your face...include your Tea party among the naysayers.
Guppy

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#102272 Mar 6, 2013
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
That is how it's being done without National Healthcare, it is know as “last resort medical treatment”!, at a cost of 60 billion a year to the taxpayer, people without insurance are charged at a much higher rate than those covered by insurance!
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I'm talking about people who don't have insurance AND don't have the money to pay either. Don't know if hospitals write it off as a loss.
Guppy

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#102273 Mar 6, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Other than allegedly gun legislation? The name of the forum is, It's the Guns Stupid.
But, if you must, read up on NDAA and the Patriot Act.
I can see this could turn into a who's on first, what's on second sketch.
Why didn't you answer the question?

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