Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

Feb 5, 2013 Full story: Verde Independent 1,644

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

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The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#268 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>The only crap is your determination to prevent the dissidents from speaking for themselves and your insistence to slander what you never considered.
Actually the dissidents are NOT being shutdown. Otherwise you would never have even HEARD of "climategate".

Duh.

Some of whom you like to call global warming dissidents have had peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject.

It's just that they are outnumbered by science papers of the opposite position.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#269 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>I was not exaggerating. I was speaking the truth which you're trying to avoid.
Truth is subjective.

In your case "truth" resembles something akin to Bizzarro-world.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#270 Feb 16, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we know that the Shoobmeister is fond of the logical fallacy of appeal to authority, even if the authority might actually disagree with Shoob if they happened to come across his BS.
I'm no expert on global warming but in this instance I'm willing to accept what dissidents like Miklós Zágoni, Richard Lindzen and Freeman Dyson are saying.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#271 Feb 16, 2013
The Dude wrote:
Some of whom you like to call global warming dissidents have had peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject.
It's just that they are outnumbered by science papers of the opposite position.
Cowards always side with the larger group. In this instance however, they are obviously grossly mistaken. And it doesn't take much intuition in this case to know that the dissidents are absolutely right.

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#272 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>I'm no expert on global warming but in this instance I'm willing to accept what dissidents like Miklós Zágoni, Richard Lindzen and Freeman Dyson are saying.
And I exposed all the weaknesses of each one.
You just like the ideology and care nothing for the science.

Lindzen was the only one who actually "tried" to use actual science to support his skepticism. Too bad he failed.

The other two are looney tunes. Dyson is purely using his "gut". I'd rank him the worst of the lot.

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#273 Feb 16, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the dissidents are NOT being shutdown. Otherwise you would never have even HEARD of "climategate".
All the investigations showed there was no scandal.
Just a bunch of personal emails the right wing had taken out of context.
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Some of whom you like to call global warming dissidents have had peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject.
It's just that they are outnumbered by science papers of the opposite position.
Can't think of any. Roy Spencer's last paper was just discredited. His editor resigned in disgrace when the peer review came out. OF coruse it was a satellite journal, so they weren't expecting him to have fudged the data (which NASA/NCAR proved comparing his UAH results with weather balloon data).

Here is Scientific American.

Climate Expertise Lacking among Global Warming Contrarians
A majority of scientists who dispute global warming lack the climatological expertise to do so
By David Biello June 22, 2010 37

The new analysis, published June 21 in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, surveyed 908 researchers publishing in scientific journals from around the world on the subject and found that not only were those in the unconvinced camp less expert in the field, they were also less likely to be trained in the climate science.

"A physicist or geologist with a PhD is a scientist, but not a climate scientist and thus their opinions on complex climatological issues is not likely to be expert opinion," says William Anderegg, lead author of the analysis and a biologist-in-training at Stanford University. "Cardiologists, for example, don't prescribe chemotherapies for cancer, nor do oncologists claim expertise at heart surgery—they are all doctors, of course, but not experts outside of a narrow specialty."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#274 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>I'm no expert on global warming
That was all that was needed. So now you've admitted you don't know anything about global warming and you don't know anything about biology. Now all we need is for you to finally admit you know jack about physics and jack about chemistry. You like maths and apologetics. Oh, as well as the usual martyr complex and comparing yourself to the greatest religious and/or scientific figures in history.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#275 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text> Cowards always side with the larger group. In this instance however, they are obviously grossly mistaken. And it doesn't take much intuition in this case to know that the dissidents are absolutely right.
Ah, so when you lack evidence the martyr complex becomes a valid argument.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#276 Feb 16, 2013
Wallop10 wrote:
<quoted text>
All the investigations showed there was no scandal.
Just a bunch of personal emails the right wing had taken out of context.
I recall, but only generally.
Wallop10 wrote:
Can't think of any. Roy Spencer's last paper was just discredited. His editor resigned in disgrace when the peer review came out. OF coruse it was a satellite journal, so they weren't expecting him to have fudged the data (which NASA/NCAR proved comparing his UAH results with weather balloon data).
Here is Scientific American.
Climate Expertise Lacking among Global Warming Contrarians
A majority of scientists who dispute global warming lack the climatological expertise to do so
By David Biello June 22, 2010 37
The new analysis, published June 21 in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, surveyed 908 researchers publishing in scientific journals from around the world on the subject and found that not only were those in the unconvinced camp less expert in the field, they were also less likely to be trained in the climate science.
"A physicist or geologist with a PhD is a scientist, but not a climate scientist and thus their opinions on complex climatological issues is not likely to be expert opinion," says William Anderegg, lead author of the analysis and a biologist-in-training at Stanford University. "Cardiologists, for example, don't prescribe chemotherapies for cancer, nor do oncologists claim expertise at heart surgery—they are all doctors, of course, but not experts outside of a narrow specialty."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...
They do have some support:

http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/11/15/why-clim...

Didn't say it was much though.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#277 Feb 16, 2013
Wallop10 wrote:
And I exposed all the weaknesses of each one.
By your shamelessly ignorant quote mining, you tried to discredit Freeman Dyson by citing Dyson's very humble admission that he doesn't have a PhD. But a more honest and fairer statement of fact is that Dyson is an extraordinary genius that has more than 20 honorary PhD's from very prestigious universities and that Dyson worked his entire life as a researcher at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton. I think that you ought to come clean and confess to being a dershbag.
celticwarriors

Bradenton, FL

#278 Feb 16, 2013
Two sides? This repugno has a split brain and neither side works. The evidence is right before your lying eyes.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#279 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text> Cowards always side with the larger group.
Yeah, like those cowards who join the majority in claiming that 4 is less than 5.

Meanwhile, heroes like you are brave enough to take a stand in favor of something which you know is wrong.

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#280 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>By your shamelessly ignorant quote mining, you tried to discredit Freeman Dyson by citing Dyson's very humble admission that he doesn't have a PhD. But a more honest and fairer statement of fact is that Dyson is an extraordinary genius that has more than 20 honorary PhD's from very prestigious universities and that Dyson worked his entire life as a researcher at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton. I think that you ought to come clean and confess to being a dershbag.
So are you for environmental spending in the other areas Dyson says>

I suspect you have twisted this along some right wing theme to be against these too.

Let me know, if I missed that one.

Let me repeat it for you. I suspect you didn't read that very carefully.

Dyson is speaking from ideology not science, it is just coming from the Far Left, not the Far Right.
"[Public spending on global warming] take(s) away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans. "

Here he is talking frankly about this, comparing himself to James Hansen who has actually studied climatology.

<< He [Hansen] has all the credentials. I have none. I don't have a Ph.D. He's published hundreds of papers on climate. I haven't. By the public standard he's qualified to talk and I'm not.***

But I do because I think I' m right. I think I have a broad view of the subject, which Hansen does not. I think it's true my career doesn't depend on it, whereas his does. I never claim to be an expert on climate. I think it's more a matter of judgement than knowledge.">>

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29... ;

Per Wikipedia quoting Dyson:

* " My objections to the global warming propaganda are not so much over the technical facts, about which I do not know much, but it's rather against the way those people behave and the kind of intolerance to criticism that a lot of them have.[13]

* " I'm not saying the warming doesn't cause problems, obviously it does. Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I'm saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. They take away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#281 Feb 16, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>By your shamelessly ignorant quote mining
HA! Oh man, Shoob, you just took out another batch of irony meters.
PHD

Overton, TX

#282 Feb 17, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Actually as you can see there was no name-calling in that post of mine. I merely pointed out your grammatical error.
PHD wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you for your input. See even you can respond without the use of calling names. I do disagree with your statement.

Yes dude if you take a long minute and read what I posted I said even you can respond without calling names.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#283 Feb 17, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
Meanwhile, heroes like you are brave enough to take a stand in favor of something which you know is wrong.
No, I really do believe my message: everythingimportant.org

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#284 Feb 17, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>By your shamelessly ignorant quote mining, you tried to discredit Freeman Dyson by citing Dyson's very humble admission that he doesn't have a PhD. But a more honest and fairer statement of fact is that Dyson is an extraordinary genius that has more than 20 honorary PhD's from very prestigious universities and that Dyson worked his entire life as a researcher at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton. I think that you ought to come clean and confess to being a dershbag.
Still no answer from the dershbag.
PHD

Overton, TX

#285 Feb 17, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>Still no answer from the dershbag.
Good luck, but you’re asking an empty chair to respond.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#286 Feb 17, 2013
Wallop10 wrote:
So are you for environmental spending in the other areas Dyson says>
Actually, I'm way ahead of Dyson. I believe in increasing the earth's biomass by planting hemp everywhere whether or not we need to reduce atmospheric CO2. everythingimportant.org/cancer
Incidentally, the proof of orthodoxy's incompetency about global warming is their solution in seeking to roll-back the industrial age.

"Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century's developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age." -- Dr. Richard Lindzen.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#287 Feb 17, 2013
LOL. Freeman Dyson doesn't have a PhD!

What a genius! He could not fulfill the requirements of a real PhD.

So funny.

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