Gitmo Prison Guard Converts From Atheism To Islam After Seeing...

Apr 6, 2013 Full story: Mediaite.com 1,239

CNN has an amazing story out of Guantanamo Bay about an American atheist prison camp guard that converted to Islam after spending extensive time talking to with some of the English speaking prisoners there.

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Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#854 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I will repeat this one more time for you. One cannot be lying by stating a belief or theory, even if that theory turned out to be wrong.
Wrong, its been pointed out to you. Yet you still keep talking about it as though it is not a lie when it is proven to be.

Why are you still talking? You need to sit down because you have nothing to say until you present proof of god, liar.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#856 Jun 23, 2013
Or create a religion and belief set that states all who are not of the same religion are evil and deserving of death... And then predict wars will happen in the future! Lmfao!
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed. Why would an intelligent designer make us whittle to helplessness in old age?
Why would an intelligent designer create physical strength differences between men and women, and then inject men with testosterone so that men could be more violent and females the target of violent men?
Why would an intelligent designer give some animals great defense mechanisms while leaving other animals helpless against their prey
Why would an intelligent designer allows some humans to be born slow?
Why would an intelligent designer allow some people to be born with disabilities?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#857 Jun 23, 2013
Mujahid wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a God. It is beyond Science and Logic to explain God's existence. Someimes Science helps.
There is a God, leading atheist concludes
Philosopher says scientific evidence changed his mind
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6688917/ns/world_ne...
This will be dismissed as nothing but nonsense here. I quoted things from Heisenberg, and it was dismissed as nothing but the rantings of a dead German. Imagine that, when one of the great minds of Physics just "rants" when he says something that people may not want to hear.

Anyway, for your own benefit or curiosity only, here are some of the quotes stating some of the conclusions that Heisenberg arrived at after arriving at revolutionary conclusions in his studies of Quantum Physics. Like Flew, he probably wasn't talking about the classic sort of idea of God, but rather something that is simply beyond the conceptualizing mind. As far as many participants here go, they are smarter than Heisenberg and know more than he does, and Heisenberg just speaks nonsense. And they are CERTAIN of that.

“Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we CAN think.”

Here, he seems to be saying that the essence of the universe itself is beyond the rational and conceptualizing mind. I would agree.

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”

Here, I don't think he is talking about the classic version of God, but merely an intelligent first cause or creator of all things. Something that people here completely dismiss with certainty.

“We have to remember that what we observe is not nature in itself but nature exposed to our method of questioning.”

I think this relates to the questions asked by another poster about about why God would do xyz.

“Revere those things beyond science which really matter and about which it is so difficult to speak.”

I think this means that he believes that there are things beyond scientific discovery itself, although he clearly believes that what we CAN discover with science is valid and unassailable.

“In the history of science, ever since the famous trial of Galileo, it has repeatedly been claimed that scientific truth cannot be reconciled with the religious interpretation of the world. Although I an now convinced that scientific truth is unassailable in its own field, I have never found it possible to dismiss the content of religious thinking as simply part of an outmoded phase in the consciousness of mankind, a part we shall have to give up from now on, Thus in the course of my life I have repeatedly been compelled to ponder on the relationship of these two regions of though, for I have never been able to doubt the reality of that to which they point.”

Again, perhaps not the classic version of God, but certainly not a dismissal of God at all.

“If we wanted to construct a basic philosophical attitude from these scientific utterances of Pauli's, at first we would be inclined to infer from them an extreme rationalism and a fundamentally skeptical point of view. In reality however, behind this outward display of criticism and skepticism lay concealed a deep philosophical interest even in those dark areas of reality of the human soul which elude the grasp of reason. And while the power of fascination emanating from Pauli's analyses of physical problems was admittedly due in some measure to the detailed and penetrating clarity of his formulations, the rest was derived from a constant contact with the field of creative spiritual processes, for which no rational formulation as yet exists.”

Personally, I believe that the question itself and any possible answers are ultimately beyond the rational mind, and therefore nobody should claim anything even close to certainty. But people always seem to on both sides of the fence,and I believe that to be foolish.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#858 Jun 23, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, its been pointed out to you. Yet you still keep talking about it as though it is not a lie when it is proven to be. Why are you still talking? You need to sit down because you have nothing to say until you present proof of god, liar.
It is not PROVEN to be false. Even other Atheists do not state that they have PROVEN that a non created Creator of all creation does not exist, they only say that they see no reason to believe it. And even if it is ever PROVEN wrong, proving someone's "theory" or "belief" to be wrong still does not make the person with that theory or belief a liar, it only makes them mistaken. There is a difference. Can you understand the difference between liar and mistaken? If a scientist proposes a theory or what he believes an outcome will be from an experiment, and his theory turns out to be wrong, is that scientist a liar or simply wrong or mistaken? This is now the SIXTH time this has had to be explained to you. What does it take before your 16 year old mind can understand this? If you want, you can call me wrong or mistaken all that you want, but I am not a liar.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#859 Jun 23, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you liked it. The reality is, Zeus and Hades, makes far more sense than a God who claims to be good, but created Satan. If God is so good and so powerful, why not rid the universe of evil?
How could anybody choose to be good? If all around you is good, and you yourself were perfectly good, and therefore incapable of bad, do you really choose to be good? But if some things around you are bad, you can choose to be good, despite the bad.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#860 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not PROVEN to be false. Even other Atheists do not state that they have PROVEN that a non created Creator of all creation does not exist, they only say that they see no reason to believe it. And even if it is ever PROVEN wrong, proving someone's "theory" or "belief" to be wrong still does not make the person with that theory or belief a liar, it only makes them mistaken. There is a difference. Can you understand the difference between liar and mistaken? If a scientist proposes a theory or what he believes an outcome will be from an experiment, and his theory turns out to be wrong, is that scientist a liar or simply wrong or mistaken? This is now the SIXTH time this has had to be explained to you. What does it take before your 16 year old mind can understand this? If you want, you can call me wrong or mistaken all that you want, but I am not a liar.
It is proven. If you claim god is real, or even possible, you are lying - you have no evidence to back it up and the characteristics you apply to the specific god that you invent can be disproven easily. Fact.

Lying theists like to hide behind this claim that it cannot be disproven but it can and has - you just eny because it disproves your beliefs.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#861 Jun 23, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
It is proven. If you claim god is real, or even possible, you are lying - you have no evidence to back it up and the characteristics you apply to the specific god that you invent can be disproven easily. Fact.
What characteristics did I give to God except the characteristic of being an non created Creator of all things with a purpose? Maybe we can't understand the purpose, but my definition says purpose.
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Lying theists like to hide behind this claim that it cannot be disproven but it can and has - you just eny because it disproves your beliefs.
Go ahead, prove it. Prove that there cannot be a non Created Creator with a purpose, whether we know what that purpose is or not.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#862 Jun 23, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you liked it. The reality is, Zeus and Hades, makes far more sense than a God who claims to be good, but created Satan. If God is so good and so powerful, why not rid the universe of evil?
Who or what created Zeus? And if Zeus himself was created, would he not owe his existence to something prior to him that precedes him? So Zeus makes more sense to you than a non created Creator of all things?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#863 Jun 23, 2013
Zeus like all gods including Yahweh/ Jesus was created by men telling stories around campfires.
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>Who or what created Zeus? And if Zeus himself was created, would he not owe his existence to something prior to him that precedes him? So Zeus makes more sense to you than a non created Creator of all things?
LNC Llin

United States

#864 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
What characteristics did I give to God except the characteristic of being an non created Creator of all things with a purpose? Maybe we can't understand the purpose, but my definition says purpose.
<quoted text>
Go ahead, prove it. Prove that there cannot be a non Created Creator with a purpose, whether we know what that purpose is or not.
tolerance for opinions other than his own, is not, his strong point.
He is always correct
Other posters seem always wrong ..... LOL
LNC Llin

United States

#865 Jun 23, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Zeus like all gods including Yahweh/ Jesus was created by men telling stories around campfires.
<quoted text>
LOL
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#866 Jun 23, 2013
LNC Llin wrote:
<quoted text>
tolerance for opinions other than his own, is not, his strong point.
He is always correct
Other posters seem always wrong ..... LOL
Well, apparently, as I am told, he's only 16 years old, so what else could be expected? I wouldn't expect any meaningful conversation if I had to have one with me when I was 16. I knew it all. My definition is only fundamental because there is no point in discussing any specifics without discussing the basics first. If there isn't a non created Creator with a purpose that we might not know, what's the point of discussing anything that any religion specifically says?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#867 Jun 23, 2013
I see you keep ignoring my facts. I will take it I have as usual stumped you. Here's another one that will stump you.

Let's just pretend there really is a god who created this universe. If so how could you possibly know there isn't also a million other gods? How could you possibly know he himself didn't have a creator but just doesn't want the people of his pet project universe to know?

And sorry but saying that tarnishes your viewpoint of him doesn't count as a logical refutation.
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>Well, apparently, as I am told, he's only 16 years old, so what else could be expected? I wouldn't expect any meaningful conversation if I had to have one with me when I was 16. I knew it all. My definition is only fundamental because there is no point in discussing any specifics without discussing the basics first. If there isn't a non created Creator with a purpose that we might not know, what's the point of discussing anything that any religion specifically says?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#868 Jun 23, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I see you keep ignoring my
Gee I wonder why? I guess, once again, that you don't even read my posts to you. You know what I asked for. I know that you at least read that part. Notice how I don't avoid the issue and I discuss it with others? Hmmm....

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#869 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
How could anybody choose to be good? If all around you is good, and you yourself were perfectly good, and therefore incapable of bad, do you really choose to be good? But if some things around you are bad, you can choose to be good, despite the bad.
So are you saying that a person who is surrounded by good people cannot chose to be bad. If that is your supposition, that is clearly wrong.
By the way, your response has nothing to do with my post which dealt with the fact that you believe in a God who you claim is good, but who created evil.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#870 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Who or what created Zeus? And if Zeus himself was created, would he not owe his existence to something prior to him that precedes him? So Zeus makes more sense to you than a non created Creator of all things?
Well according to the Greeks, Zeus and the Olympians were created by the Titans. But my post wasn't about that. It was about the fact that you one god does not make sense.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#871 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
What characteristics did I give to God except the characteristic of being an non created Creator of all things with a purpose? Maybe we can't understand the purpose, but my definition says purpose.
<quoted text>
Go ahead, prove it. Prove that there cannot be a non Created Creator with a purpose, whether we know what that purpose is or not.
It's not our job to prove that. It is your job to supply proof of your creator.
Thinking

London, UK

#872 Jun 24, 2013
Thor makes more sense because we have evidence of thunder and lightning.
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Who or what created Zeus? And if Zeus himself was created, would he not owe his existence to something prior to him that precedes him? So Zeus makes more sense to you than a non created Creator of all things?

Since: Mar 11

United States

#873 Jun 24, 2013
Once again show me my exact post where I was wrong and factually demonstrate how I was wrong and I will eagerly concede the point.

You run and cower from everyone's questions and act like an angry child by saying, basically, I'm posting to say I refuse to post about your questions.

Either you are childish and uneducated or you are too proud to admit I have stumped you with what should be a simple question.
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>Gee I wonder why? I guess, once again, that you don't even read my posts to you. You know what I asked for. I know that you at least read that part. Notice how I don't avoid the issue and I discuss it with others? Hmmm....
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#874 Jun 24, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
So are you saying that a person who is surrounded by good people cannot chose to be bad. If that is your supposition, that is clearly wrong.
For you to be surrounded by nothing but good people would mean that all people are good and cannot be bad, including you. Therefore, nobody, including you, could choose to be bad, and therefore they cannot choose to be good as well.
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, your response has nothing to do with my post which dealt with the fact that you believe in a God who you claim is good, but who created evil.
I am explaining why there is the capability for being bad, or bad in the world, so that there is the ability to choose to be good. True love appears to be the most valuable thing that there is. But if someone does everything that you want, then you could not truly love that person, you would actually be loving what that person does for you, not the person themselves. It isn't true love until there is still love even in adversity or bad times.

I often ask Christians, if God didn't do anything or will not do anything for you (no heaven), would you still love God? And my answer would be, why not or why shouldn't I? But someone might reply, why should I if God didn't and isn't going to do anything for me? what would be the point? Then I would respond that although they thought they loved God this whole time, what they have actually been loving is what God does or will do for them, not God himself or itself. They don't like it when I bring this up.

So without adversity, we cannot truly love God, and if there was any purpose that I can think of for God creating the world leading to humans, it would be to cultivate true love, much like a person plants a tree so that it can bear fruit, although a tree does not have free will, so that's not a perfect analogy, just an analogy.

If you could create a perfect robot designed to love you and with no choice but to do so, would you ever receive true love? One might always think, well yes, you love me, but that's only because I programmed you to do so and gave you no other choice. It wouldn't be real. True love can only come from free will choice, and with that comes the choice to be bad. That doesn't mean that it's impossible for someone to always choose good, but I have never heard of anybody like like, unless one believes in the story of Jesus.

But an imperfect world is the only environment that can cultivate true love.

People say that God can do anything or is all powerful,or so the story goes. But I think that God gave up some of his or its power and control by giving humans free will, in exchange for the possibility of receiving true love from them. And "true" free will means the option or capability to be bad. If God created everything good, with no capabilities to be bad, then God would never receive true love. If God created all of this, one would or could assume that an intelligent creator would had to have a reason or purpose for doing so.

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