Lance Armstrong Cheated to Win. Why is that Wrong?

There are 17 comments on the Nov 17, 2012, Reason Magazine story titled Lance Armstrong Cheated to Win. Why is that Wrong?. In it, Reason Magazine reports that:

After months of bad press, the greatest competitive cyclist of all time has officially hit rock bottom : The Lance Armstrong Foundation has dropped the name of its eponymous creator and will now be known as the Livestrong Foundation.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reason Magazine.

Douglas

Los Angeles, CA

#1 Nov 18, 2012
Will lance have ch tattooed on his forehead soon like the adulteress in Hawthorne s puritanical novel.

His political aspirations have aspired and his silence now confirms his guilt. Lucky if not criminally indicted. But. He has bank. And everyone else . And he can maintain the lie. Because of no positive tests ever
And he is a victim who beat the big c.

Ironically steroids and doping are carcinogenic. If not just bad for the liver

Our youth thinks so little of elders in USA don't worry about bad example.
GeeMan

London, UK

#2 Nov 21, 2012
@Douglas it is not allowed just now to take PED's under the rules however it was not that long ago it was illegal to be a Professional athlete but that changed due to the fact Sport could not control it and pressure from Sponsors to have more elite athletes and better performances.

PED rules will also ease in time and they shall start to allow more and more just as Social Drug Laws are being relaxed.

Its part of natural progression.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#3 Dec 4, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
@Douglas it is not allowed just now to take PED's under the rules however it was not that long ago it was illegal to be a Professional athlete but that changed due to the fact Sport could not control it and pressure from Sponsors to have more elite athletes and better performances.
PED rules will also ease in time and they shall start to allow more and more just as Social Drug Laws are being relaxed.
Its part of natural progression.
I don't think you have thought this through properly geeie, i understand your point. But i do not believe that supporters or competitors will want their sports to become biotech races. Removing individual talent from the competition ! think about it before you continue to promote this idea.
I think that only in the highland games should competitors be forced to compete under huge doses of ped's. Tossing the caber

and other such ridiculous games as Maide Leisg http://www.youtube.com/watch... , Sheaf toss http://www.youtube.com/watch... , Weight over the bar http://www.youtube.com/watch... , Weight throw
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
, Scottish hammer throw
http://www.youtube.com/watch... and the ever so memorable Stone put.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
As anyone who cares enough to look, it is obvious that the scotts are just so damm stupid that massive intravenous doses of ped's would make perfect sense to them to improve their sporting prowess.
Only in scotland could this make sense , so i forgive you geeie for proposing such a stupid idea!!
GeeMan

Broxburn, UK

#4 Dec 4, 2012
@turtle it is nicethat you have taken such time to re-aquaint yourself with the culture you were once part of.

You know what I said will happen and it will come sooner than you think with Getic Stimulation on the rise.
GeeMan

Broxburn, UK

#5 Dec 4, 2012
Genetic
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#6 Dec 5, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
Genetic
my god geenie, your talking about a futuristic utopia of blandness!
mmmmmmmmm sounds a bit like that littlr country to the north of where i live. I wonder are there any films ? books ? about such places and such cultures ? you could make millions with that film pitch ! apart from its been done again and again and again for as long as people have thought ahead. I hope you really are not saying this is what you would like, or that as a species we are gonna be so dumb to put communism and nazi fascism beliefs together with artificially modifying evolution in one big pot and see what happens are you ?
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#7 Dec 5, 2012
Great idea geeie!! it will make brilliant viewing
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#8 Dec 5, 2012
GeeMan

Broxburn, UK

#9 Dec 5, 2012
@turtle you speak as though we dont have doping just now and it is not tollerated! you need to be more honest about this and with yourself.

If the primary objective was catch dopers then WADA would have a HUGE budget but they dont, they dont even atch a Cycling Teams Budget for the whole of Sport.

They were created by IOC to offer a Public Face of catching cheats and given a TINY Budget to do it so they would be as ineffective as possible.

If thats not correct why are they so poorly funded?

Dopping has not just arrived in Cycling and Sport it has been here as long as they have all existed and that wont change anyday soon.

Like Social Drug Laws being eased so shall PED's and it will create the Elite v non Elite and the Sponsors will be with the Elite.

Sponsors will be there because Public Consumption demands performance and Sponsors wont to be associated with WINNERS.

The vicious circle remains and we watch Doping Athletes in ALL Sports every day.
je lay baisee

AOL

#10 Dec 5, 2012
You have cheated for 60 years! Ever since HGH, doping, drugs, steroids, etc. has been screened in the Olympics your performance has degraded and now third world countries are coming through and winning medals!

Jamaica has proved that US athletes were doping so now track and field is wide open to the equator and below!

And everything else, you will be exposed. Not longer cheating will pay off for you cheater, lier, deceiver, abuser and SOB like you!
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#11 Dec 5, 2012
you are suggesting an all out bio tech sport future with replicants as competitors. A bit like robot wars but with people!
most people play or compete at sports initially through enjoyment and competition. Yes people at the top push themselves to be better and to use and improve their talent. Cycling is one such sport where this has gone to extreme levels leading to cheating with ped's. But thankfully recent events have led the sport and its riders through a watershed moment. Where real change has happened and the whole ethos is changing. Check out some of the articles by Michael Barry here - http://michaelbarry.ca/ or many other riders blogs who have cycled through this period and are getting past the omerta nonsense.
Also look at http://www.changecyclingnow.org/wp-content/up...
http://www.changecyclingnow.org/attendees
The attitude that everyone else is doing it so we have to to keep up has changed and is no longer the driving force in cycling it once was.
There are still hurdles to overcome and there will be some that cheat!!, but not in the endemic way it has been in the recent past.
Look, i can not be bothered to argue or debate with you on these issues.I will happily watch as cycling continues to right the wrongs of decades of abuse, mostly to the riders themselves. While you with your glass half full continue to relish in what is now becoming old news and the past. cycling genuinely has an opportunity to become a sport without ped's being a major influence.
With the fall of lance being a massive contributing factor in cycling becoming clean again. We should thank him, because without his outrageous level of cheating. Change would never have happened in cycling to this scale without him.
We also watch talented individuals who do not cheat, compete in sports at the highest level and are winners without cheating!!
It does not have to be the viscous circle you talk about, and thankfully most sports do not have endemic cheating like cycling in the 90"s.
Some do, and they need help in changing the culture just like cycling has and is doing.
We will have to agree to disagree, but pleas check out the links i have given you in this and the previous posts. I hope you and others using this forum do, you will find it educational and interesting .
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#12 Dec 5, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
@turtle you speak as though we dont have doping just now and it is not tollerated! you need to be more honest about this and with yourself.
If the primary objective was catch dopers then WADA would have a HUGE budget but they dont, they dont even atch a Cycling Teams Budget for the whole of Sport.
They were created by IOC to offer a Public Face of catching cheats and given a TINY Budget to do it so they would be as ineffective as possible.
If thats not correct why are they so poorly funded?
Dopping has not just arrived in Cycling and Sport it has been here as long as they have all existed and that wont change anyday soon.
Like Social Drug Laws being eased so shall PED's and it will create the Elite v non Elite and the Sponsors will be with the Elite.
Sponsors will be there because Public Consumption demands performance and Sponsors wont to be associated with WINNERS.
The vicious circle remains and we watch Doping Athletes in ALL Sports every day.
oh and sponsors want to back WINNERS who do not CHEAT there is nothing worse for a sponsor than backing a CHEATER. Just like rats leaving the boat all lances sponsors ran as far away as they could. Yes they stay with livestrong but not for lance or any promoting he could do for them. But because being associated with a charity which helps people who suffer from cancer is not something they could walk away from.+ it makes them look good, it sells some extra trainers as well as doing a good thing. Win win in a big sponsors relationship with the foundation.
GeeMan

Broxburn, UK

#13 Dec 6, 2012
@turtle you being naive if you believe that sponsors dont know what is going on in sport.

Also dont get confued by business and financial relationships as they are seldom link s closely that they cannot be severed and still still remain very friendly.

You mentioned the LA sponsors remaining with Livestrong all agreed before LA inevitable standing down and all done with public aclaim.

Look at all the dopers who have been caught and sponsors who were involved and see who still gets sponsorship and who remains involved as a sponsor.

How does Festina sound to you? Nike? Addidas?

Athletes are just the end of the chain and the poorest part as well. Everyone before them make the real money from DR's administering doping, manufacturers, Sponsors.
Why was EPO the worlds biggest selling drug from 2001 to now?

The comment about robots shows how much you do not understand genetic stimulation which is very real and very active with Athletes NOT robots.
Try reading up before condemning stuff please.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#14 Dec 6, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
@turtle you being naive if you believe that sponsors dont know what is going on in sport.
Also dont get confued by business and financial relationships as they are seldom link s closely that they cannot be severed and still still remain very friendly.
You mentioned the LA sponsors remaining with Livestrong all agreed before LA inevitable standing down and all done with public aclaim.
Look at all the dopers who have been caught and sponsors who were involved and see who still gets sponsorship and who remains involved as a sponsor.
How does Festina sound to you? Nike? Addidas?
Athletes are just the end of the chain and the poorest part as well. Everyone before them make the real money from DR's administering doping, manufacturers, Sponsors.
Why was EPO the worlds biggest selling drug from 2001 to now?
The comment about robots shows how much you do not understand genetic stimulation which is very real and very active with Athletes NOT robots.
Try reading up before condemning stuff please.
mm you should too geeie, go check your facts before you make them please
GeeMan

Broxburn, UK

#15 Dec 6, 2012
@athos what facts are you on about? You know by now I do the background to get facts right and you do the one liners when you don't know what you are on about!
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

#16 Dec 6, 2012
GeeMan wrote:
@athos what facts are you on about? You know by now I do the background to get facts right and you do the one liners when you don't know what you are on about!
First fact, its turtle not athos !!(do the checks geeie) second i know you do not do all the background to make sure your facts are correct because you consistently produce incorrect or dubious statements. Finally check your facts and you will see where you are wrong.
oh, and i ain't no comedian. I am happy to state that i am not witty enough to fire off one liners. As previous posts clearly demonstrate, i am more associated with wittering on and on and on! and am often accused of talking for England the UK and Europe as a whole! Hope that's clear enough for you to understand that i know what i am talking about.
The robot comment is not a misguided and unknowledgeable statement you condemn it as. It was a description of the extreme fictional end result of policies you seem so keen to endorse as seen in many films and books of sci-fiction.
Your lance fan boy worship has taken you on a journey of nonsense. I recall the initial discussions/debates i had with you and other lance fan boys. It is a shame you and them are unable to take a step back and view the pathetic retreat from one dubious stand to the next even weaker one in your haste to defend the indefensible.
At no point has there ever been an acceptance of being wrong or misguided. A behaviour mirrored by lance himself, or really i should put that statement the other way around with you mirroring lance. From legal arguments to soothsaying and back there has been an unbelievable amount of nonsense said and worse of all believed!
i pity you geeie and all who sail with you on your voyage to and from the indefensible + the nonsensical. Yet it has had its moments of creativity + even truth and interest between the utter nonsense and bizarre. Again though, your ignoring of facts and truth followed by your cherry picking of the points and issues you wish to respond to has been lamentable in its entirety. One just hopes that you and your club will eventually grow to understand the shame you so blissfully ignore and one day you will see the light!
GeeMan

Broxburn, UK

#17 Dec 6, 2012
@turtle please stop with the LA fanboy nonsense you know my views on doping etc and unishment for all when caught without deviation or change. That also means WADA keep to rules they ignore or the whole system is a complete nonsense as no rules exist!

We had YOU must be amateur but now thats not the case

Then we had you can have a limited trust fund to assist in training etc now we have mega rich athletes who are fully professional

We had no doping allowed then we had allowance for prescriptions for banned substances

Then we had Federations expanding allowed susbstances expanded.

Now we have a HUGE amount of Athletes with diagnosed ADA, ADHA, Iron Defficiencies etc all associated with banned substance use.

These are being allowed by rules applied by IOC to WADA for INCLUSION of athletes with ailments but it is being abused big time.

The writing is on the wall from decades ago we are moving faster and faster to a full PED system as one day it shall be adimitted it cannot be controllled and/or measured and Genetics is so far advanced for Doping it shall take decades to catch up on the shoestring they have.

IF we could control doping I would agree 100% with your argument but we cant so I live in the real world and accept the change we have had and will see.

2012 Olympic DR in charge of Doping, as I have said many times before, stated Doping Control is so far behind Doping Strategy it is farcical.

Your argument is the same as we have control on social drugs in society however who owns the Largest Cannabis Fields in the world? Tobacco Co's and pushing for full legalised use and as we all know it is coming.

BIG business runs the world and guess who shall own the PEDs when legalised? yep Nike and Co.

I dont like it either but we have no choice.

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