If Health Law Is Overturned, What Wil...

If Health Law Is Overturned, What Will Liberals Do?

There are 4937 comments on the thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com story from Mar 28, 2012, titled If Health Law Is Overturned, What Will Liberals Do?. In it, thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com reports that:

If the Supreme Court strikes down all or part of President Obama 's health care law , it will have unraveled a legislative compromise that many liberals had viewed with suspicion from the beginning.

In one of the ironies of recent politics, Mr. Obama was a late convert to the merits of the individual mandate that now appears to be in danger of being declared unconstitutional.

But the president’s embrace of the mandate — and his willingness to abandon a so-called public option to get a health care deal — was a hard pill to swallow for many of his Democratic supporters.

The Affordable Care Act promises to provide health insurance to millions who lacked it. But it also stops far short of the idea that health care is a basic right for everyone living in the country. And it embraces the market-based system of private health care delivery that has long existed in America.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com.

conservative values

Junction City, KS

#2997 Jun 16, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>

When I started this career, I used to see maybe one DOT cop a year. Today I see at least one every day, and if I'm leaving the city, I see several of them. Over here in Ohio, they trained the state troopers to do DOT inspections. Like safe trucks are a bad thing.
The problem with this idiotic cell phone law is that the trucking organizations are not sticking together. I even talked to a few drivers who didn't mind it. Because they`re smart, responsible professional drivers. that's the problem with our country. When government gets too intrusive, nobody wants to go against them. Especially conservatives when it comes to the Patriot Act.
So now, government can get away with just about anything they desire. From cell phones in trucks to seat belts in cars.Like talking and texting and not wearing seatbelts while driving are okay. From seat belts in cars to smoking restrictions in businesses and in public. Second-hand smoke is healthy for you? From smoking restrictions to how much salt restaurants are allowed to serve in food. From salt restrictions to cup size for sugary beverages. The list goes on and on.As a diabetic, you are especially responsible for your own health.
We are a bit older than probably most here, so we remember what a somewhat free country was. But younger people don't know. They never experienced it. Government everything has been part of their life as long as they've been alive. It's a real shame. 40 years ago, you could never compare liberties of a communist or dictatorship country to ours, today you can. That was before Reagan and the second Bush Administration got into power.The great experiment is finally headed to failure, and it's all by choice of the people.
Amen RayTed.
Churmudgeon

Bexar, AR

#2998 Jun 16, 2012
thank you wrote:
<quoted text>
And thanks to people like you and your generation we now have to suffer the consequences. Thank you very much - you can quit your griping about the over reach of the government because it it your fault it is the way it is.
I sure hope you aren't bragging about driving 30 straight hour.
You are the same poster as not good. I never was in a accident in a 18 weeler. the only thing,s that ever happened was I hit so many deer in the last dozen years Ive lost count how many. They can do a lot of damage. The Dot today isnt about safety it about creating revenue and regulation. Anyone who has drove truck any amount at all has drove when they where out of hours. If they state they dont & havent their lying. I bet you have drove more than ten hours straight in your car. For thirty six years I never got one ticket. And in the last 3 years Ive been stopped more than 50 times. Im not a habitual speeder I usually drove 60 MPH even when the speed limit was 70. nowadays your stopped and inspected and given mickey mouse tickets for things like a marker light not working . And guess what I pay the fine and they let me drive on. Its revenue they want and the big companys arent hassled its independent owner operators and small companies they target. My fault? Really! those new laws would be in effect even if I had never driven a 18 wheeler. The law never even knew I was on the road back in the day. They where home in bed sleeping And I was hauling goods. the fact is there are more trucks than ever and more laws and more DOT parasites. but dont you worry Im done you aint gonna have me in a truck to upset anyone. Im lucky to have lived & prospered in a time when the USA was a free country and everone dint need the goverment to feed them , make them safe or provide free health care.
thank you

Junction City, KS

#3000 Jun 16, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> You are the same poster as not good.

I never was in a accident in a 18 weeler. the only thing,s that ever happened was I hit so many deer in the last dozen years Ive lost count how many. They can do a lot of damage. The Dot today isnt about safety it about creating revenue and regulation. Anyone who has drove truck any amount at all has drove when they where out of hours. If they state they dont & havent their lying. I bet you have drove more than ten hours straight in your car. For thirty six years I never got one ticket. And in the last 3 years Ive been stopped more than 50 times. Im not a habitual speeder I usually drove 60 MPH even when the speed limit was 70. nowadays your stopped and inspected and given mickey mouse tickets for things like a marker light not working . And guess what I pay the fine and they let me drive on. Its revenue they want and the big companys arent hassled its independent owner operators and small companies they target. My fault? Really! those new laws would be in effect even if I had never driven a 18 wheeler. The law never even knew I was on the road back in the day. They where home in bed sleeping And I was hauling goods. the fact is there are more trucks than ever and more laws and more DOT parasites. but dont you worry Im done you aint gonna have me in a truck to upset anyone. Im lucky to have lived & prospered in a time when the USA was a free country and everone dint need the goverment to feed them , make them safe or provide free health care.
You're apparently not as intelligent as you think you are - "Not Good" and I are not the same poster.
If it wasn't for idiots thinking they could drive 30 straight hours and now talk away on their cell phones, the government wouldn't have to step in - Yes, you and you kind who think you're all that (even though I imagine you're the only one on this thread who actually believes the BS you spout off) are the cause of the laws the rest of us know have to abide by. If your generation had used an ounce of common sense we wouldn't need all these laws, but no you think you own the world and you should be able to do whatever you want regardless of the danger it puts others in.
You are lucky to have lived in a time when the USA was a free country - thanks for ruining it for the future generations.
question

Junction City, KS

#3001 Jun 16, 2012
You`re
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> You are the same poster as not good. I never was in a accident in a 18 weeler. the only thing,s that ever happened was I hit so many deer in the last dozen years Ive lost count how many. They can do a lot of damage. The Dot today isnt about safety it about creating revenue and regulation. Anyone who has drove truck any amount at all has drove when they where out of hours. If they state they dont & havent their lying. I bet you have drove more than ten hours straight in your car. For thirty six years I never got one ticket. And in the last 3 years Ive been stopped more than 50 times. Im not a habitual speeder I usually drove 60 MPH even when the speed limit was 70. nowadays your stopped and inspected and given mickey mouse tickets for things like a marker light not working . And guess what I pay the fine and they let me drive on. Its revenue they want and the big companys arent hassled its independent owner operators and small companies they target. My fault? Really! those new laws would be in effect even if I had never driven a 18 wheeler. The law never even knew I was on the road back in the day. They where home in bed sleeping And I was hauling goods. the fact is there are more trucks than ever and more laws and more DOT parasites. but dont you worry Im done you aint gonna have me in a truck to upset anyone. Im lucky to have lived & prospered in a time when the USA was a free country and everone dint need the goverment to feed them , make them safe or provide free health care.
If you drove 10 MPH under the speed limit, why would you need a radar detector, as you previously stated ? You`re also lying if you drove 30 straight hours on a regular basis and never found yourself dozing and weaving or driving when you should have been off the road. No all-night AM radio program is going to keep anybody alert indefinitely. Like I said, you act proud to have beaten the system, even when it was loosely regulated. You can`t justify wrecklessness with nostalgia for the good old days.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#3002 Jun 16, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> Back in my younger days I have drivers licenses in three different states. a radar detector and three log books. I would sometimes drive 30 hours straight. I never needed any little white pills. I was nocturnal what sleeping I did was during the daytime. I ran all nite listening to Charlie Douglas on the New orleans radio station. Ive bought fuel at the famous Dump he advertized for in Slidell Louisana. I never did like going by the weigh stations. I knew of a way to dodge all of them. Fuel was 35 cents a gallon and you could make money if you would work.
I read a while back that Free Trade agreement with Mexico in the mid 90's that American companies were using Mexican trucking companies that don't have to abide by the same rules as US trucking companies is that true ? In otherwords using run down beat up unroadworthy trucks hauling stuff for major food chains etc at much cheaper rates.
Churmudgeon

Bexar, AR

#3003 Jun 16, 2012
question wrote:
You`re<quoted text>If you drove 10 MPH under the speed limit, why would you need a radar detector, as you previously stated ? You`re also lying if you drove 30 straight hours on a regular basis and never found yourself dozing and weaving or driving when you should have been off the road. No all-night AM radio program is going to keep anybody alert indefinitely. Like I said, you act proud to have beaten the system, even when it was loosely regulated. You can`t justify wrecklessness with nostalgia for the good old days.
My statement was I sometimes drove 30 hours straight. Sometimes you had a refegerated load of seafood or fish that must be delivered by a certian time or you had to pay for the missed appoitment. Once My truck broke down in kingman arizona and I has sea food going to the east coast. By the time The truck was repaired I didnt have enough time to take a break to sleep. I drove from Kingman Ariz to Boston without stopping. It was never a everyday occurance. my usual day was 14 to 16 hours of driving. I can still put in a 16 hour day with no problem. We where paid by the mile. And the average was about 50 miles for every hour of driving time. the radar detector was to let me know where & when the local small town barney fife speed cop was set up. used to be a place in south ark where the speed limit was 55 and just around a bend it dropped to 25 mph. The city of bradely has moved its city limits a mile from the town. and the local Barney would setup and hide. When the bird dog went off you knew he was there and could creep by him doing 20 MPH. Driving 60 in a semi will get you there just a quick as 70 and 60 can help with the fuel economy. The three drivers licenses where for a sort of bail. If you got a overweight ticket or something and didnt have the cash to pay they would keep your drivers license. You could drive on the ticket for a few days. When you paid your fine thay mailed your license back to you. But if you had three and one was being held for ransom and you got stopped again you could just show another license rather than giving the cop a heads up that your overweight or sumthin. That also wasnt a common occurance.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#3004 Jun 16, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> So what? Health care isnt a guarnteed counstitional right. That a citisen cannott be forced to pay for goods &services that he did not personally order. That is a God given &Counstitional right. Those who want better(Health Care or other goverment perks & services) than they can afford to purchase here in the USA are free to leave & live where ever they want. They are not free to violate anothers Counstitional Right to life liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Neither is a flush toilet or an asphalt road you stupid idiot. God, stupid people like you are the reason the USA is in such trouble.

Even that rightwing freakshow of the SCOTUS said clearly that citizens can be taxed for health care. Medicare is clearly CONSTITUTIONAL.

Do you read anything? Why are you so unable to think clearly about anything.

All rightwingers are anchors on our progress. Thank God people are finally beginning to realize that.

Churmudgeon

Bexar, AR

#3005 Jun 16, 2012
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
I read a while back that Free Trade agreement with Mexico in the mid 90's that American companies were using Mexican trucking companies that don't have to abide by the same rules as US trucking companies is that true ? In otherwords using run down beat up unroadworthy trucks hauling stuff for major food chains etc at much cheaper rates.
Yep Its true. Hard as it is to believe! A Mexican National with a passport and green card dont need a drivers license CDl or insurance because it isnt required in his home country. Nobody uses wore out unroadworthy trucks on the US highways. if you dont have a good newer truck you cant haul anyones frieght or lease it on to a reputable company. Its just not economacially feasabil to use old junk that nickles and dimes you to death.Most mexican trucks bring the frieght to the border at places like brownsville Texas and some US company brings it on to the destination. The local rock chrushers around here wont load you unless you can prove you have a million dollars in liability insurance. You cant leave if your overweight. If you dont have the proper license plates they wont load you. Big trucks tend to get a bad rap. Most truck four wheeler accidents are the four wheelers fault.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#3006 Jun 16, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. I'm not much for heights, so I thought I would have made a good plumber. I would be able to work for myself and not worry about government intrusion.
When I started this career, I used to see maybe one DOT cop a year. Today I see at least one every day, and if I'm leaving the city, I see several of them. Over here in Ohio, they trained the state troopers to do DOT inspections. So now instead of troopers doing their job, they are looking to meet their truck quota.
The problem with this idiotic cell phone law is that the trucking organizations are not sticking together. I even talked to a few drivers who didn't mind it. But that's the problem with our country. When government gets too intrusive, nobody wants to go against them. It's like cooking a frog in a pot of water. Sure, the water is fine because its cold, but by the time it gets so hot that you realize there is a problem, it's too late.
So now, government can get away with just about anything they desire. From cell phones in trucks to seat belts in cars. From seat belts in cars to smoking restrictions in businesses and in public. From smoking restrictions to how much salt restaurants are allowed to serve in food. From salt restrictions to cup size for sugary beverages. The list goes on and on.
We are a bit older than probably most here, so we remember what a somewhat free country was. But younger people don't know. They never experienced it. Government everything has been part of their life as long as they've been alive. It's a real shame. 40 years ago, you could never compare liberties of a communist or dictatorship country to ours, today you can. The great experiment is finally headed to failure, and it's all by choice of the people.
Yet you totally support Bishop Romputz who wants a Constitutional Amendment making it ILLEGAL for anyone other than a businessperson to be POTUS.

Freedom!

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#3007 Jun 16, 2012
Well we have a few highway police for breath tests and the like. They set up road blocks and selectively pull in cars or trucks sometimes with a mobile lab that drug tests as well. But most of the enforcement is done by cameras, now the new big thing here is point to point cameras. This is especially done for the truckies. They photo your number plate on a freeway and at the end of it photo again. Your avg speed is worked out and if too fast you cop a fine. With truckies, its also the enforcement of breaks between deliveries. If the photo log doesn't match the drivers log you cop the fine as well. As for mobiles it's ok as long as you have a hands free, however there is a push on to even ban that. But then it gets into technicalities like changing the radio station also constitute an offence using the same mobile ph laws. But I like the signs they have when they introduced new heavy fines for driving and texting on mobiles. It's all over my city on big signs "Drive n text UB Next"
Churmudgeon

Bexar, AR

#3008 Jun 16, 2012
OzRitz wrote:
Well we have a few highway police for breath tests and the like. They set up road blocks and selectively pull in cars or trucks sometimes with a mobile lab that drug tests as well. But most of the enforcement is done by cameras, now the new big thing here is point to point cameras. This is especially done for the truckies. They photo your number plate on a freeway and at the end of it photo again. Your avg speed is worked out and if too fast you cop a fine. With truckies, its also the enforcement of breaks between deliveries. If the photo log doesn't match the drivers log you cop the fine as well. As for mobiles it's ok as long as you have a hands free, however there is a push on to even ban that. But then it gets into technicalities like changing the radio station also constitute an offence using the same mobile ph laws. But I like the signs they have when they introduced new heavy fines for driving and texting on mobiles. It's all over my city on big signs "Drive n text UB Next"
I read about a guy who would blast those cameras with a 12 guage loaded with buckshot. he dressed in black and wore a halloween mask walked up and took them out. They never did catch him. I suppose he wanted to get even?
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#3009 Jun 16, 2012
cherry picker wrote:
<quoted text>Yet you support the Patriot Act, and voted for the Party that initiated it. You have no gripes about random urinalysis without probable cause, and other 4th Amendment violations, because you`ll justify them with right wing talking points. Your hypocrisy is shining brightly once again.
I've always had a problem with random drug screens. It's just that I believe if a working person has to do it, so should somebody on government assistance. Why is that a problem? Currently, working people are subject to drug screenings and our police, fire, politicians and welfare queens are not? You see equity in this somehow?

The Patriot Act did not violate any of my rights; it never violated rights of my friends; it never violated rights of my family or my place of business. it never violated any rights of my neighbors. So when you can find somebody who had their rights violated by the Patriot Act, please let us know who that person was.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#3010 Jun 16, 2012
thank you wrote:
<quoted text>
You're apparently not as intelligent as you think you are - "Not Good" and I are not the same poster.
If it wasn't for idiots thinking they could drive 30 straight hours and now talk away on their cell phones, the government wouldn't have to step in - Yes, you and you kind who think you're all that (even though I imagine you're the only one on this thread who actually believes the BS you spout off) are the cause of the laws the rest of us know have to abide by. If your generation had used an ounce of common sense we wouldn't need all these laws, but no you think you own the world and you should be able to do whatever you want regardless of the danger it puts others in.
You are lucky to have lived in a time when the USA was a free country - thanks for ruining it for the future generations.
And do tell, do laws make humans infallible? How are those murder laws working out? Drug laws? Rape laws?

The biggest problem in our country is people like you who believe government is the salvation to all our problems; ignoring what's in it for government which in most cases is more control over the people.

These new driving laws are an additional expense to trucking outfits. My employer had to purchase a new set of phones and devices to accommodate these ignorant laws. It serves no purpose of course. Bluetooth technology is more distracting than using cell phones in itself. You cannot hear the transmissions over the noise of a truck, you have to cup your hand over your ear to possibly understand the message, and Nextel communications are impossible because Nextel is not compatible with bluetooth technology which is what most local trucking outfits rely on.

So now, all these communications are disrupted by the federal government. It costs more money because outfits have to purchase more cell phone time and will likely cause Nextel to lose customers. But who cares, right? You are more than happy to pay for all this nonsense that is intrinsic in the products you purchase that are hauled by trucks.

Yeah, government has all the answers. Who needs personal responsibility anymore?
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#3011 Jun 16, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither is a flush toilet or an asphalt road you stupid idiot. God, stupid people like you are the reason the USA is in such trouble.
Even that rightwing freakshow of the SCOTUS said clearly that citizens can be taxed for health care. Medicare is clearly CONSTITUTIONAL.
Do you read anything? Why are you so unable to think clearly about anything.
All rightwingers are anchors on our progress. Thank God people are finally beginning to realize that.
What people are realizing is the decay of our Constitution because of people like you. This was reflected in the last election where people voted out socialism and returned to a party leadership of Americanism and the Constitution.

If forced healthcare was already ruled upon, then why did SCOTUS agree to hear the arguments? Perhaps it is you that should do some reading. If you so desire for the federal government to provide you with everything from food to healthcare, then perhaps America is not your thing. Maybe try Cuba or North Korea where they are already setup for government to provide all your needs.

It's a real shame that the Constitution is such a hurdle for your so-called progress. I can't wait until the SCOTUS to rule against you and your ilk.
thank you

Junction City, KS

#3012 Jun 16, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>

Yeah, government has all the answers. Who needs personal responsibility anymore?
If people showed personal responsibility we wouldn't need the laws. All of the laws you oppose you can thank yourself for. The laws are made because of society, because people get greedy and do things like drive 30 straight hours in a rig endangering other people lives. If truck drivers showed personal responsibility laws to force them to be responsible wouldn't be necessary.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#3013 Jun 16, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you totally support Bishop Romputz who wants a Constitutional Amendment making it ILLEGAL for anyone other than a businessperson to be POTUS.
Freedom!
Site please....... And no, left wing blogs don't count.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#3014 Jun 17, 2012
Now it's a anxious wait to see what the Greeks are going to do. This is one time I won't be rooting for the left wing anti bail out party. If they win, then most likely Greek out of the Euro and the world markets will take a huge hit on Monday. This is this BS globalised world now, a small country like Greece can bring us all down. Here's hoping they find some middle ground, something the USA is also unable to find. But the countries that are successful are doing exactly that, walking the middle ground with policies from both left to right. This will all take place while the G20 meeting is on as well.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#3015 Jun 17, 2012
thank you wrote:
<quoted text>
If people showed personal responsibility we wouldn't need the laws. All of the laws you oppose you can thank yourself for. The laws are made because of society, because people get greedy and do things like drive 30 straight hours in a rig endangering other people lives. If truck drivers showed personal responsibility laws to force them to be responsible wouldn't be necessary.
So the answer is to write laws for every single mishap of humans? Humans make mistakes, and not all people will obey laws. That's why we have a prison system. If liberals actually have this belief they can make humans perfect, then it explains their other failed attempts such as taxing the wealthy will somehow make it better for the poor.

At this rate, perhaps we will live like the characters in the book 1984. We will have cameras on us every second of the day so government can make sure we don't step out of line. It's a real shame what's happening to our once free country.
Churmudgeon

Mountain Home, AR

#3016 Jun 17, 2012
OzRitz wrote:
Now it's a anxious wait to see what the Greeks are going to do. This is one time I won't be rooting for the left wing anti bail out party. If they win, then most likely Greek out of the Euro and the world markets will take a huge hit on Monday. This is this BS globalised world now, a small country like Greece can bring us all down. Here's hoping they find some middle ground, something the USA is also unable to find. But the countries that are successful are doing exactly that, walking the middle ground with policies from both left to right. This will all take place while the G20 meeting is on as well.
Its a poster boy example of letting other people .things& conditions having a influence on your personal well being. Your depending on the G20 meeting why? You apparently have stock in someone elses companies? Why? Why do not not have stock in your own company? I would rather have my money invested in myself than someone else. I like to touch and see what I own and me be the one in charge of my well being success or failure. That opinion aside its gonna happen eventually that in this BS glowbullised world that something will bring us all down. Finiancial collapse is a certianty, Not If but When? What goes up must eventually come down. I think the sooner the better. Shure Ill lose some money. My fianiancial statment& worth probably will fall from maybe a half million to 50 thousand. But Ill still have the same assetts. My buildings vehicles, Land , timber,cattle ,scrap metal ect will still be there. My paper cash might not buy anything. But that paper will still pay the taxes. But Ill still have goods to barter and eat. And most importantly Ill still have my Know How. Im not posting this to win a argument. Or to lamblast or belittle. Im trying to present a different viewpoint. Im trying to get people to think differently. Its very hard to change your core concept, However when not if the proverbal shit hits the fan your core concept will be changed no matter if you like it or not.
Churmudgeon

Mountain Home, AR

#3017 Jun 17, 2012
thank you wrote:
<quoted text>
If people showed personal responsibility we wouldn't need the laws. All of the laws you oppose you can thank yourself for. The laws are made because of society, because people get greedy and do things like drive 30 straight hours in a rig endangering other people lives. If truck drivers showed personal responsibility laws to force them to be responsible wouldn't be necessary.
I was being responsible. I was the one who owned that truck and has just spent a ton of money on repairs. and that sea food had to be delivered on time in order for me to remain solvent and pay my bills ect. iwas the one whose responsibility it was to get that load delivered. I did what was necessairy at the time and most others if they had been in my shoes at the time would have done the same. When I was a teen in the winter fur season I would coon hunt all nite and get home at daylite. help do morning chores and then so to school. I had study hall second period and would sleep through it. after school I would sleep a few hours and go out again. Those coon hides brought $8 to $12 and I was proud to help by bringing in some cash.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

US News Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The House Voted to Repeal Obamacare More Than 5... 3 min R I P Trumpcare 1
News Analysis: Trump the dealmaker struggles to seal... 5 min R I P Trumpcare 26
Election 'Fox News Sunday' to Host Kentucky Senate Debate (Oct '10) 6 min AMERICAN SUNSHINE 261,846
News 'Free Kim Davis': This is just what gay rights ... (Sep '15) 7 min River Tam 25,227
News Trump to GOP: Pass health care bill or seal you... 8 min jonjedi 91
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 9 min USAsince1680 1,508,457
News Global backlash grows against Trump's immigrati... 9 min katrina 3,394
News BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting... (Jan '09) 17 min ha ha good night 239,358
News Young Americans: Most see Trump as illegitimate... 39 min Jim-ca 656
News Comey: FBI probing links between Russia, Trump ... 52 min Texas 353
Gay Skype !! 1 hr Davesmithgay 77
More from around the web