created by: trevyn41 | Oct 23, 2007

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Should US forces stay in Iraq until the jobs done?

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41 - 59 of 59 Comments Last updated Nov 9, 2007
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“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

Oak Ridge,TN

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#41
Oct 27, 2007
 
Yeah rick those humvees are doing a bang up job.The govt has had armored troop transports and refuse to send them because they cost too much.Heres and idea,why didnt they design armor for the humvees instead of building a new vehicle?
Rick69 wrote:
Sadamn is dead, yes. But while we did that we destroyed thier infrastructure. Having done that we have a duty to reinstate that infrastructure and teach the remaining people how to use it properly. On top of that it can't hurt to make sure their army is able to defend their country. Will all of this make a difference in the long run? who knows. Probably not if they continue to let religion rule their lives but IF they can come to grips with the idea of a working non violent (to their own people) government, and If they can properly defend themselves they may just have a chance. Do I agree with everything we are doing over here, no. But I think what we are doing it has it's place.
So the WMD thing was a bust, it's too late to deal with that now. Plus this has nothing to do with oil. If it did we would be pushing the Iraqi government to build more refineries. They are not. They have like one working refinery and it sucks.
Now as for us never being well equiped...I call the BS flag on that one. I was in the army and we had some pretty sweet toys. Their durability was way beyond the civilian stuff and it was old which shows how well built it was. Now a days we have all kinds of gadgets the troops get to use. Trust me, we are well equipped.
Andrea, you are right though. If we leave now, or left years ago there would be an even bigger mess to clean up. the military/governement/civilian infrastructure is not any where near ready to run that place. They can't even keep water clean, food on the table, disease is rampant, hell their ecology is so vile and polluted from the people destroying it that it's not safe for kids to play in the sand.
Well enough of this for now.

Since: Oct 07

Bellingham

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#42
Oct 27, 2007
 
talk about needing to pick up a newspaper. there are 4-5 times as many iraqis dying in this war than americans (depending on which region we are talking about). You are right though we are still in Afgan. Oh and the armored transports. Yea we are using them right now. We didn't use them before because they had to finish testing and afford to make more of them. The humvees were doing an ok job, not good but ok. Until they came up with the EFPs. Nothing stops those damn things. They punch into Abram's armor. Quite being a hater. yea we need to leave but not before they are ready.

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

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#43
Oct 29, 2007
 
They train them to do a job; that is not nearly the same thing as giving them "experience".

Being at war with "terrorism" is a remarkably stupid concept--how do you fight an idea? Do you blow up all its adherents? Then what about all the adherents that rise up because you blew up the previous adherents? Al qaeda is stronger now than it was on 9/11 because Bush has demonstrated that everything bin Laden told people is true. You can't fight hatred with hatred and you can't fight ideology with ideology. You can only overcome hatred through practical demonstrations of how the basis for that hatred is untrue. Until we are ready to do this, we aren't going to do anything but aggravate the situation.

Oh christ on a cracker--there was nothing wrong with the water before we attacked them. There were no outbreaks of cholera, no poisoned wells, nothing at all. It may not have all been processed, but it wasn't poisoned. Believe it or not, there are places on this globe where you can just drink out of a pond or stream without needing vaccines.

The government in iraq doesn't have to kill anyone--that is what a civil war is all about, and they will have one. WE took out a tyrant but never asked why there was a tyrant to begin with. The answer has become obvious--Saddam kept peace amongst what were usually warring factions. And we have allowed each group to run free, with obvious results. And if what they are experiencing is "peace", the you must live in a war zone.

WE most certainly DID force democracy on them. Pretending they asked for a government that they are actively resisting is ridiculous.

How about YOU try to view things once you get your head out of Bush's butt?
Rick69 wrote:
cpetr13: while many of our troops are too young to buy alcohol, that doesn't mean they aren't capable of making life and death decisions. It just means that you have to have a couple years of experience as an adult to buy alcohol. The difference is that the military gives you the experience before you even go over there to do what needs to be done. And don't even try to dispute it until you have gone to this war. If you haven't gone then you don't know the training and experience levels of the troops.
Next, the whole making it argument seems like a way for you to continue arguying about nothing. "making it" is a silly phrase. yes we accomplished a goal in this war but now we aren't at war with Iraq. We are at war with terrorism. We are doing Iraq a service by building them back up after crushing their dictator.
As for the water, no there wasn't wrong with the water, that Sadam and his men drank. it was the water the rest of the country drank that was bad. Sure there were a couple of water plants here and there but for the most part there weren't functioning water plants anywhere Sadam didn't live. You can tell this by the state of disrepair these plants are in.
it's not a lie that we gave them peace. Not an all encompasing peace, but the peace of mind that your government isn't going to kill you for the hell of it. Are there those who want war here, yes. They are called insurgents. members of radical groups, foreign hostile governments and such that would rather see Iraq fall so they can come in and do as they wish. We aren't forcing democracy on this group of people. They were asked what kind of government they wanted and a vote was taken. As time goes on more people will vote as they are educated and hopefully there will be a strong democracy built here. It will be tough and hateful people like you will only make the process more difficult. so give it a rest and try to see situations from more than an anti-war mentality.

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

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#44
Oct 29, 2007
 
It's sad to see so many people wanting our troops to be dispatched for absolutely no reason.
Robert D wrote:
I'm glad to see Im not the only one here that gets supporting the troop means getting them out.I dont care how long we are there the job will never be done.The only thing keeping them from a full on civil war is the fact they are enjoying killing US soldiers more.
<quoted text>

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

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#45
Oct 29, 2007
 
When will they be ready? When they are all dead? Or when Bush decides to attack Iran--I guarantee he will pulll the troops out for that.
Rick69 wrote:
talk about needing to pick up a newspaper. there are 4-5 times as many iraqis dying in this war than americans (depending on which region we are talking about). You are right though we are still in Afgan. Oh and the armored transports. Yea we are using them right now. We didn't use them before because they had to finish testing and afford to make more of them. The humvees were doing an ok job, not good but ok. Until they came up with the EFPs. Nothing stops those damn things. They punch into Abram's armor. Quite being a hater. yea we need to leave but not before they are ready.

“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

Oak Ridge,TN

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#46
Oct 29, 2007
 
I guess I am so dead set against this war now because I was duped into believing we needed to go there in the first place.I believed the WMD lies,and the Al Qaeda was working with Saddam crap.Unfortunately I was wrong to have taken the govt's word at face value.At least I was smart enough to see when I was being lied to albeit to late.What scares me are the ones that still believe the bull$hit they are being spoon fed.
Cpetr13 wrote:
It's sad to see so many people wanting our troops to be dispatched for absolutely no reason.
<quoted text>

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

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#47
Oct 29, 2007
 
There will always be people who follow the government blindly. That is why it is so important not to let the Bushes of this world get into office.
Robert D wrote:
I guess I am so dead set against this war now because I was duped into believing we needed to go there in the first place.I believed the WMD lies,and the Al Qaeda was working with Saddam crap.Unfortunately I was wrong to have taken the govt's word at face value.At least I was smart enough to see when I was being lied to albeit to late.What scares me are the ones that still believe the bull$hit they are being spoon fed.
<quoted text>

Since: Oct 07

Bellingham

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#48
Oct 30, 2007
 
I never said I like what bush was doing. The way he has approached things in this conflict is entirely wrong. however, the water situation was not good before the war. It's not good now but at least they are learning how to deal with it.
The situation in iraq is more than just a war on terror, quite switching subjects. Iraq is not only a rebuilding effort but a root out the insurgency effort. Historically, in preestablished countries, it too 10-12 years to root out an insurgency and bring it down to a tolerable level. Iraq may take more time than that if they ever can, but we should be done there before that happens. The problem in iraq is the insurgents are very craft, and live right next door. Oh man if he takes us to war with Iran...that'll be a bad day. Hopefully Bush isn't that damn stupid, hopefully.
"they train them to do a job" well yea but in doing so they learn about life. Then they go to their duty station and learn more about life. That is experience. When I said the military gives you the experience I suppose i should have elaborated for the small minded. Life in the military is what provides experience. More so than many other paths people take.
Don't feel to set out Robert. Many of us were duped into believing the WMD issue. Couple that with the towers and off we went. It will be interesting to see if the republicans make it back into office next term.

“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

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#49
Oct 30, 2007
 
There weren't any insurgents till we got there.Yeah hey are learning how to deal with it all right.WE fix it and they blow it up again and again and again.
Rick69 wrote:
I never said I like what bush was doing. The way he has approached things in this conflict is entirely wrong. however, the water situation was not good before the war. It's not good now but at least they are learning how to deal with it.
The situation in iraq is more than just a war on terror, quite switching subjects. Iraq is not only a rebuilding effort but a root out the insurgency effort. Historically, in preestablished countries, it too 10-12 years to root out an insurgency and bring it down to a tolerable level. Iraq may take more time than that if they ever can, but we should be done there before that happens. The problem in iraq is the insurgents are very craft, and live right next door. Oh man if he takes us to war with Iran...that'll be a bad day. Hopefully Bush isn't that damn stupid, hopefully.
"they train them to do a job" well yea but in doing so they learn about life. Then they go to their duty station and learn more about life. That is experience. When I said the military gives you the experience I suppose i should have elaborated for the small minded. Life in the military is what provides experience. More so than many other paths people take.
Don't feel to set out Robert. Many of us were duped into believing the WMD issue. Couple that with the towers and off we went. It will be interesting to see if the republicans make it back into office next term.

“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

Oak Ridge,TN

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#50
Oct 30, 2007
 
We couldnt go to war with Iran now if we had too.Who's gonna fight.Maybe we can start up the old draft so Bush can get us into another no end in sight war.You say something very important about the insurgents.They re crafty and live right next door.I dont know how old you are or if you remember anything about Vietnam but that is the same thing they said about the VC.SO is it time to admit this is the new Vietnam?
Rick69 wrote:
I never said I like what bush was doing. The way he has approached things in this conflict is entirely wrong. however, the water situation was not good before the war. It's not good now but at least they are learning how to deal with it.
The situation in iraq is more than just a war on terror, quite switching subjects. Iraq is not only a rebuilding effort but a root out the insurgency effort. Historically, in preestablished countries, it too 10-12 years to root out an insurgency and bring it down to a tolerable level. Iraq may take more time than that if they ever can, but we should be done there before that happens. The problem in iraq is the insurgents are very craft, and live right next door. Oh man if he takes us to war with Iran...that'll be a bad day. Hopefully Bush isn't that damn stupid, hopefully.
"they train them to do a job" well yea but in doing so they learn about life. Then they go to their duty station and learn more about life. That is experience. When I said the military gives you the experience I suppose i should have elaborated for the small minded. Life in the military is what provides experience. More so than many other paths people take.
Don't feel to set out Robert. Many of us were duped into believing the WMD issue. Couple that with the towers and off we went. It will be interesting to see if the republicans make it back into office next term.

Since: Oct 07

Bellingham

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#51
Oct 31, 2007
 
nah, not old enough to remember Vietnam. Were you trying to make a point about the insurgents? So not asmany of them were there before us, instead Sadam was killing his own people. Much better...? Eitherway bad stuff is happening. Shouldl we be there now, its a matter of opinion but we are doing good things in Iraq right now. We need to realize bush screwed up and move on. What needs done to bring us out of Iraq and leave a moderately stable government when we leave.

“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

Oak Ridge,TN

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#52
Oct 31, 2007
 
You are missing the point entirely.Move on?So just forget that Bush and his cronies lied to get us there?You are ok with that?I don't think there were any there before we got there.I think the majority of insurgents weren't even Iraqis.Do you honestly think when w leave a stable govt will ever stay in place?
Rick69 wrote:
nah, not old enough to remember Vietnam. Were you trying to make a point about the insurgents? So not asmany of them were there before us, instead Sadam was killing his own people. Much better...? Eitherway bad stuff is happening. Shouldl we be there now, its a matter of opinion but we are doing good things in Iraq right now. We need to realize bush screwed up and move on. What needs done to bring us out of Iraq and leave a moderately stable government when we leave.

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

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#53
Oct 31, 2007
 
There were no water problems in Iraq that the populace couldn't deal with before we came in. Period.

You do not learn about life when you are trained to shoot a gun; you are taught about how to end life. This is not a magical mystery tour; it is taking barely-formed humans and making them into order-following robots whose principle job is to look for "insurgents", which is a meaningless term when the borders are wide open and the resident populace is taking poitshots at you.

There were no insurgents when Saddam was in power. Too bad Bush decided t destroy the country in order to 'save" it.
Rick69 wrote:
I never said I like what bush was doing. The way he has approached things in this conflict is entirely wrong. however, the water situation was not good before the war. It's not good now but at least they are learning how to deal with it.
The situation in iraq is more than just a war on terror, quite switching subjects. Iraq is not only a rebuilding effort but a root out the insurgency effort. Historically, in preestablished countries, it too 10-12 years to root out an insurgency and bring it down to a tolerable level. Iraq may take more time than that if they ever can, but we should be done there before that happens. The problem in iraq is the insurgents are very craft, and live right next door. Oh man if he takes us to war with Iran...that'll be a bad day. Hopefully Bush isn't that damn stupid, hopefully.
"they train them to do a job" well yea but in doing so they learn about life. Then they go to their duty station and learn more about life. That is experience. When I said the military gives you the experience I suppose i should have elaborated for the small minded. Life in the military is what provides experience. More so than many other paths people take.
Don't feel to set out Robert. Many of us were duped into believing the WMD issue. Couple that with the towers and off we went. It will be interesting to see if the republicans make it back into office next term.

Since: Oct 07

Bellingham

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#54
Nov 1, 2007
 
Robert d: of course we aren't going to just forget he put us there. As I stated above, I'm not agreeing with what he did or how he did it. Do you have any knowledge of who the insurgents are? The reality of the matter is that they are Iranians, Syrians, with other strageling in from other countries. some are Iraqi but most aren't. Take it from someone who actually knows a bit about it. But yes, I think the governmnet here has a chance if we don't just abandon them.

Cpetr13: I'm sorry you have such a low view of those who defend the right you have to speak poorly of them. there is a lot more to the army training than shooting a gun. I don't know a single soldier, sailor, airman or marine that is an order following robot. What a hateful and ignorant thing to say. Hell you are even calling those who have college degrees (not all but many) barely-formed. Such blanket statements only go to show your inability to properly cope with life and form a workable opinion. I am sorry for those you have spawned and those who have to deal with you on a day to day basis. I will no long submit myself to your prattle as you are now being ignored.
May whatever powers you believe in heal your soul and mind.

Blessings

“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

Oak Ridge,TN

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#55
Nov 2, 2007
 
Thats what I said.These insurgents didnt get there till we did.I said most were not Iraqis.
Rick69 wrote:
Robert d: of course we aren't going to just forget he put us there. As I stated above, I'm not agreeing with what he did or how he did it. Do you have any knowledge of who the insurgents are? The reality of the matter is that they are Iranians, Syrians, with other strageling in from other countries. some are Iraqi but most aren't. Take it from someone who actually knows a bit about it. But yes, I think the governmnet here has a chance if we don't just abandon them.
Cpetr13: I'm sorry you have such a low view of those who defend the right you have to speak poorly of them. there is a lot more to the army training than shooting a gun. I don't know a single soldier, sailor, airman or marine that is an order following robot. What a hateful and ignorant thing to say. Hell you are even calling those who have college degrees (not all but many) barely-formed. Such blanket statements only go to show your inability to properly cope with life and form a workable opinion. I am sorry for those you have spawned and those who have to deal with you on a day to day basis. I will no long submit myself to your prattle as you are now being ignored.
May whatever powers you believe in heal your soul and mind.
Blessings
PFC Young

Morgan Hill, CA

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#56
Nov 6, 2007
 
Robert D wrote:
I'm glad to see Im not the only one here that gets supporting the troop means getting them out.I dont care how long we are there the job will never be done.The only thing keeping them from a full on civil war is the fact they are enjoying killing US soldiers more.
<quoted text>
i dont think so

“Oak Ridge,TN ”

Since: Dec 06

Oak Ridge,TN

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#57
Nov 6, 2007
 
Can I ask?What don't you think?You have PFC in front of your name so I will go out on a limb and say you are a soldier.First of all thank you and your fellow soldiers for your service.I am a huge troop supporter.With that in mind I dont want you guys to die for this war.No mater what happens there the minute you guys are gone it will all go to hell.That country knows nothing other than an iron fist controlling them.Jut because people are against the war doesn't mean they are against the troops.My motto is "Support the troops by bringing them home".No more children should have to a father or mother.No parent should have to bury a son or daughter.
PFC Young wrote:
<quoted text>
i dont think so
Edward Phillips

Pompano Beach, FL

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#58
Nov 6, 2007
 
They are bunch of nut's let them fight among themselves. You see the more people kille the better it is for the planet
PFC Young

Morgan Hill, CA

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#59
Nov 9, 2007
 
Edward Phillips wrote:
They are bunch of nut's let them fight among themselves. You see the more people kille the better it is for the planet
HOOAH!

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