The Senate's gun control fail: dead c...

The Senate's gun control fail: dead children and monied politicians | David Simon

There are 605 comments on the The Guardian story from Apr 18, 2013, titled The Senate's gun control fail: dead children and monied politicians | David Simon. In it, The Guardian reports that:

The blocking of gun control legislation in the Senate exposes just how deeply corrupted America's bought democracy has become Mark Barden, whose son Daniel died at Sandy Hook elementary school, hugs Joe Biden after the Senate bill was killed.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Guardian.

xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#433 May 6, 2013
Windy wrote:
OK, then smart guys, just what IS the answer to decreasing gun violence????
Give every man, woman and child a semi automatic gun and box of ammo? Armed security gaurds everywhere?
Gun violence (and all violence) has been on the decline for the last couple of decades. So the quick answer is to keep doing what we are doing. Obviously whatever we are doing is working. Can we perfect on that? Maybe, but going in the exact opposite direction isn't going to get us there. Enhancing what we are doing probably will.

So what have we been doing the last couple of decades that's working? That's anybody's guess. Better and more accurate investigations, more video cameras everywhere, more jails. But if you ask me, I think it's because state by state, more of us are carrying firearms and having laws on our side against the criminals.

Before our Castle Doctrine several years ago, if somebody broke in your house, you had to use any escape to leave your residence before you could use deadly force. If you had no escape and did use your firearm and kill somebody, the police would technically arrest you, and you had to go to court to make your claim of self-defense. In most all cases, that plea was successful, but then you had to worry about liability. You shoot an intruder, it was justified, but the family or surviving subject could still sue you.

That all changed with one signature of legislation. If you have an intruder, you don't have to leave your home. You can optionally decide to kill the SOB. The family could not sue you for anything. Hell, you don't even have to keep your door locked if you don't want to.

A proper deterrent works all the time.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#434 May 6, 2013
Windy wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is saying that that woman being stalked can't have a gun in her posession...it just doesn't need to be an "assault weapon", and she should obtain it legally (permit, background check, etc.).
If sane, law-abiding citizens want to have guns, go for it! No one is trying to take your guns away, or make it impossible for you to get one. The laws curretnly being proposed may not solve any big problems, but we have to start somewhere.
So where do we start? I say we start by getting rid of liberal judges. It's liberal judges that make our prison system a playground. It's liberal judges who are against the death penalty and all for dragged out appeals for 20 years. That's not a deterrent. A deterrent is a jail like in the movie Cool Hand Luke. Now that's a deterrent.
Cat74

United States

#435 May 6, 2013
We start by providing children Mothers, and fathers who will teach them morals. Some of the children in our cities are raising themselves, because there is no father, and the mother is working, or drunk, or all drugged up most of the time. There is no guidance in their lives.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#436 May 6, 2013
Windy wrote:
OK, then smart guys, just what IS the answer to decreasing gun violence????
Give every man, woman and child a semi automatic gun and box of ammo? Armed security gaurds everywhere?
I've asked once today, but didn't get an answer...what ARE the gun laws that are "on the books, but not enforced"?
Lying on ATF form 4473 to purchase a firearm is a felony but rarely enforced.In 2010, over 15,000 felons and fugitives tried to illegally purchase firearms. The Obama Justice Dept prosecuted forty four. The other 14,956 that weren't prosecuted looked for guns elsewhere like on street corners, glove compartments and in night stands in stranger's bedrooms.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#437 May 6, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh – the hell are you rambling about?


I'll write slower next time if it will help you.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#438 May 6, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really believe our founders foreseen no advancement in weaponry in the future? And if they did believe weapons would be more convenient, more deadly, and shoot faster, why didn't they use the word "musket" in the second amendment?
The use of the word "arms" covered those weapons that were not invented yet. If the Constitution limited us to muskets while firearm innovation took place, we would be at a great disadvantage and the founders understood that.
Huh – the hell are you rambling about?
“Bearing arms," throughout the 18th century, meant to serve as a soldier or to fight an enemy. The term "bear arms" did not infer a broader meaning such as hunting or the mere carrying or wearing of arms.

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#439 May 6, 2013
Windy wrote:
OK, then smart guys, just what IS the answer to decreasing gun violence????
Give every man, woman and child a semi automatic gun and box of ammo? Armed security gaurds everywhere?
I've asked once today, but didn't get an answer...what ARE the gun laws that are "on the books, but not enforced"?
the answer is simple.

happy people don't commit violence.

what is happening now is a direct response to all the outsourcing of our jobs, and factories overseas and into other countries.

we have these idiots on capitol hill believing that we should allow the outsourcing so that these other countries will be happier and by being so will not be hell bent on war all the time.

what they didn't consider was.. then, WE would be unhappy. and our OWN people would be committing violence. duh!

YOU want the violence to stop?

1st, you fire all the politicians who believe we should allow the outsourcing.
2nd, you bring back all the jobs and the factories. get people to work.

and THEN, the violence will go away. it's a no-brainer.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#440 May 6, 2013
Conservatives and most liberals agree, with the 2nd amendment we have a wonderful legacy and tradition – it's the gunloonery that is the problem.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#441 May 6, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh – the hell are you rambling about?
“Bearing arms," throughout the 18th century, meant to serve as a soldier or to fight an enemy. The term "bear arms" did not infer a broader meaning such as hunting or the mere carrying or wearing of arms.
Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state (1818).

Kentucky:[T]he right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1792).


Pennsylvania: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; (1776).

The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1790).

Rhode Island: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (1842).

Vermont:[T]he people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State --(1777)
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#442 May 6, 2013
spocko wrote:
Conservatives and most liberals agree, with the 2nd amendment we have a wonderful legacy and tradition – it's the gunloonery that is the problem.
Actually many liberals don't agree.

"Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a safety hazard don't see the danger of the big picture. They are courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution that they don't like."
Constitutional scholar Alan Dershowitz
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#443 May 7, 2013
Thanks to all of you great posters for taking the time to give me so many "clueless" judgits!
But, none of you have answered my question.
As part of your argument against the currently proposed gun legislation, you've stated "They don't enforce the laws we have NOW".
I am asking, besides the lack of prosecuting 100% of the felons who (illegally) apply for guns, what are these laws that are already on the books but no enforced?
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#444 May 7, 2013
okimar wrote:
<quoted text>Define "assault weapon"...... MOST libs can't. They are parrots,stooges of the lame stream lib media. Rather than argue with them,feed them a cracker and let them squawk.
I did, post #412.
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#445 May 7, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really believe our founders foreseen no advancement in weaponry in the future? And if they did believe weapons would be more convenient, more deadly, and shoot faster, why didn't they use the word "musket" in the second amendment?
The use of the word "arms" covered those weapons that were not invented yet. If the Constitution limited us to muskets while firearm innovation took place, we would be at a great disadvantage and the founders understood that.
Do you really believe that the founding fathers invisioned machine guns while writing the 2nd Ammendment? Do you think they even concieved of the volume of crime that exists today? They were still riding horses for crying our loud.
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#446 May 7, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lying on ATF form 4473 to purchase a firearm is a felony but rarely enforced.In 2010, over 15,000 felons and fugitives tried to illegally purchase firearms. The Obama Justice Dept prosecuted forty four. The other 14,956 that weren't prosecuted looked for guns elsewhere like on street corners, glove compartments and in night stands in stranger's bedrooms.
So, then, to keep guns further out of the hands of criminals, I shouldn't have one in my nightstand or glove compartment?
Agreed.
senior citizen

Granite City, IL

#447 May 7, 2013
Windy wrote:
Thanks to all of you great posters for taking the time to give me so many "clueless" judgits!
But, none of you have answered my question.
As part of your argument against the currently proposed gun legislation, you've stated "They don't enforce the laws we have NOW".
I am asking, besides the lack of prosecuting 100% of the felons who (illegally) apply for guns, what are these laws that are already on the books but no enforced?
Each state has their own gun laws - Illinois has an addition FOID card required for ammo and gun purchase. This is Illinois:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illi...

If you want to know what your state's gun laws are google it.

Keep in mind the guns the THUGS and GANGS have do not abide by the same laws since they steal their guns and ammo. Illinois has one of the toughest gun laws and YET CHICAGO (it is unlawful to own a gun in Chicago)HAS MORE KILLINGS than any other city in Illinois. If Illinois had the CC, Chicago could be turned around with the THUGS/GANGS knowing they could get shot back at if they go to shooting at people.
senior citizen

Granite City, IL

#448 May 7, 2013
Windy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really believe that the founding fathers invisioned machine guns while writing the 2nd Ammendment? Do you think they even concieved of the volume of crime that exists today? They were still riding horses for crying our loud.
MACHINE GUNS? Do you know anyone with a machine gun? Have you ever seen a machine gun in real life or just in the movies? Bonnie and Clyde went out long ago.

There may be one in the Smithsonian

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#449 May 7, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
Each state has their own gun laws - Illinois has an addition FOID card required for ammo and gun purchase. This is Illinois:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illi...
If you want to know what your state's gun laws are google it.
Keep in mind the guns the THUGS and GANGS have do not abide by the same laws since they steal their guns and ammo. Illinois has one of the toughest gun laws and YET CHICAGO (it is unlawful to own a gun in Chicago)HAS MORE KILLINGS than any other city in Illinois. If Illinois had the CC, Chicago could be turned around with the THUGS/GANGS knowing they could get shot back at if they go to shooting at people.
Exactly.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#450 May 7, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
MACHINE GUNS? Do you know anyone with a machine gun? Have you ever seen a machine gun in real life or just in the movies? Bonnie and Clyde went out long ago.
There may be one in the Smithsonian
I do my Neighbor he has a WW2 water cooled machine gun and has all the Federal Paper work to own & possess it.
senior citizen

Granite City, IL

#451 May 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>I do my Neighbor he has a WW2 water cooled machine gun and has all the Federal Paper work to own & possess it.
I bet that is an interesting WW2 gun. I have never seen a machine gun and it being water cooled must really look different must be nice.
Windy

Buffalo, NY

#452 May 7, 2013
senior citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
MACHINE GUNS? Do you know anyone with a machine gun? Have you ever seen a machine gun in real life or just in the movies? Bonnie and Clyde went out long ago.
There may be one in the Smithsonian
Using the example of "machine gun" was a hyperbole....

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