What Divides Catholics and Protestants?

Apr 19, 2008 Full story: www.christianpost.com 83,958

As Pope Benedict XVI continues with his highly publicized visit to the United States, some may wonder what the major differences are between Catholicism and Protestantism - the two main Christian bodies in the ...

Full Story
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82543 Aug 30, 2012
Nijoni wrote:
These are quite informative as well.
Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Philadelphia ...
1.1 Cover-up by cardinals Krol and Bevilacqua; 1.2 Role of Cardinal Rigali in ....
for the archdiocese, concealed the crimes of accused priests and put them in ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in...
Roman Catholic sex abuse cases by country - Wikipedia, the free ...
In the 1990s, criminal proceedings began against members of the Christian ... by
priests of the Archdiocese of Boston, and following revelations of a cover-up by ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abus...
Victim wins crucial decision in pedophile priest case; SNAP responds
We feel it's morally wrong for church officials to try to exploit archaic deadlines
and legal technicalities to keep clergy sex crimes covered up. Juries should be ...
www.snapnetwork.org/victim_wins_crucial_decis...
Vatican Named in International Criminal Court Complaint - NYTimes ...
Sep 13, 2011 ... Two organizations asked the International Criminal Court to investigate ... and
covering up the rape and sexual assault of children by priests.
www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world/europe/14vat...
Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests Seeking Justice in ...
and deterring future criminal acts, exposing and preventing clergy sex crimes and
cover-ups in the Catholic Church, and holding those who commit, ignore,...
ccrjustice.org/files/ICCFAQ_FINAL.pdf
Philly priest gets 3 to 6 years in abuse case - CNN.com
Jul 24, 2012 ... Accused priest:'I was helping priests and helping victims as best I could'. Days
before the trial ... "Cover up child sex crimes and you'll go to jail.
www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/justice/pennsylvania-p...
Police move on priests over abuse cover-up!, page 1 ... in a landmark case that
could expose the church to a new wave of criminal prosecution.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread866592/pg1
Four posts...keep going. Barry might not be convinced yet.
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82544 Aug 30, 2012
Nijoni wrote:
<quoted text>
Nuts and illiterate.
The only comprehensive report on sexual abuse within any denomination was the study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice of American Catholic priests. No comparable report exists for any other denomination, Jenkins said.....
Hey, was that enough sex crimes cover ups or have you been in your self induced coma?
Sorry, you can't take one sentence from a paragraph and decide that's all the paragraph states. That's lying about what the whole story was about. But, since that is another common fundie trait, I guess we couldn't expect anything different from someone like you.

Still don't know the difference between past and present...that song by Jethro Tull...Living in the Past just popped into my head. Great song! Now I have the urge to go listen to some Jethro Tull.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#82545 Aug 30, 2012
ITB wrote:
<quoted text>
Four posts...keep going. Barry might not be convinced yet.
and where in any of these accounts does it say that the CC turned these fellows over to law enforcement? where does it say that they were expelled from their duties or the church before these criminal cases proceeded?
These are quite informative as well.
Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Philadelphia ...
1.1 Cover-up by cardinals Krol and Bevilacqua; 1.2 Role of Cardinal Rigali in ....
for the archdiocese, concealed the crimes of accused priests and put them in ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in ...
Roman Catholic sex abuse cases by country - Wikipedia, the free ...
In the 1990s, criminal proceedings began against members of the Christian ... by
priests of the Archdiocese of Boston, and following revelations of a cover-up by ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abus ...
Victim wins crucial decision in pedophile priest case; SNAP responds
We feel it's morally wrong for church officials to try to exploit archaic deadlines
and legal technicalities to keep clergy sex crimes covered up. Juries should be ...
www.snapnetwork.org/victim_wins_crucial_decis ...
Vatican Named in International Criminal Court Complaint - NYTimes ...
Sep 13, 2011 ... Two organizations asked the International Criminal Court to investigate ... and
covering up the rape and sexual assault of children by priests.
www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world/europe/14vat ...
Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests Seeking Justice in ...
and deterring future criminal acts, exposing and preventing clergy sex crimes and
cover-ups in the Catholic Church, and holding those who commit, ignore,...
ccrjustice.org/files/ICCFAQ_FINAL.pdf
Philly priest gets 3 to 6 years in abuse case - CNN.com
Jul 24, 2012 ... Accused priest:'I was helping priests and helping victims as best I could'. Days
before the trial ... "Cover up child sex crimes and you'll go to jail.
www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/justice/pennsylvania-p ...
Police move on priests over abuse cover-up!, page 1 ... in a landmark case that
could expose the church to a new wave of criminal prosecution.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread866592/pg1
Patriot

Antioch, TN

#82546 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
where is the "[ding] as they should"? he died for their sins. they were saved as abraham and we are, by faith.
Romans 4:2-5
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:22-24
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
the main thing(in a nut shell) was under old law to do the sacrifices as prescribed and had their sins rolled forward each year. the same principal for OT and NT is to receive ones reward they had to "follow the rules". Just like Christ told his disciples IF they abide in his words they are his disicples indeed. Notice the condition of "IF"
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82547 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>what are you talking about?
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/45618912...
Priest Accused Of Abuse Moved From Parish To Parish
ST FRANCIS - They knew he was accused of abusing kids, but the Milwaukee Archdiocese kept moving an accused pedophile priest from parish to parish. The allegations couldn't have come at a worse time for the Archdiocese of Milwaukee. They say they're facing a $3 million budget deficit and the sale of the Cousins Center has fallen through, and now, a long cover-up of alleged abuse is out in the open. Thursday, hundreds of documents detailing alleged abuse by former priest Franklyn Becker were released. His alleged victims say it's about time.“The privacy rights of criminal priests matter more than the rights of these little ones," alleged victim Nick Jordan said. There are 800 pages, including complaints from parents and a diagnosis of Becker as a pedophile....ST FRANCIS - They knew he was accused of abusing kids, but the Milwaukee Archdiocese kept moving an accused pedophile priest from parish to parish. The allegations couldn't have come at a worse time for the Archdiocese of Milwaukee. They say they're facing a $3 million budget deficit and the sale of the Cousins Center has fallen through, and now, a long cover-up of alleged abuse is out in the open. Thursday, hundreds of documents detailing alleged abuse by former priest Franklyn Becker were released. His alleged victims say it's about time.“The privacy rights of criminal priests matter more than the rights of these little ones," alleged victim Nick Jordan said. There are 800 pages, including complaints from parents and a diagnosis of Becker as a pedophile.... The Archdiocese now admits to having reports of Becker’s abuse from as far back as the 1970's, but very little was done to stop it. He was sent to nine different parishes in southeastern Wisconsin over 20 years. Becker was finally restricted from ministry in 2002
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abu...
The Catholic sex abuse cases are a series of convictions, trials and investigations into allegations of child sexual abuse crimes committed by Catholic priests and members of Roman Catholic orders against children as young as 3 years old with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14.[1][2][3] These cases included sodomy, and oral penetration, and there have been criminal prosecutions of the
The results made public in 2004 showed that even after the public outcry, priests were moved out of the countries where they had been accused and were still in "settings that bring them into contact with children, despite church claims to the contrary."
In the United States, which has been the lead focus of much of the scandals and subsequent reforms,[27] BishopAccountability.org , an "online archive established by lay Catholics," reports that over 3,000 civil lawsuits have been filed against the church,
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/times...
and more...
Another one who doesn't know the difference between past and present. This is 2012, or didn't you realize that? The abuse scandal has been out in public for how many years?

You made a statement in the present tense stating the CC "makes (present tense) every effort to retain (present tense) them." I asked for present day statistics showing that the CC is STILL at the PRESENT time "making every effort to retain them", as you stated.

Obviously, you can't.

Get the difference now?
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82548 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so finally after 2,000 years your church is finally getting it. how about showing similar actions taken by your church from say the 70"s?
and doesn't the lynn case prove my point. a senior church official was covering for corrupt priests. why wasn't it the policy of this senior official to expose them and kick them out?
doesn't the law case also prove my point? a cardinal was transferring corrupt priests in an effort to keep them in the ministry.
"From the 70's"...isn't that now? We're over 40 years from the 70's.

It's a shame you didn't get your own point. You wrote that the CC "makes every effort to retain them"...your point is false, since you made it out to be something the CC is STILL doing. The Lynn case proves that what you wrote was INACCURATE. So, thanks to you too for proving my point.

Have you got it yet? Jeez.
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82549 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>the point is did any of these churches try to retain these corrupt ministers? did any of them try to cover it up by transferring them to another church? or did they turn them over to authorities and co-operate fully with the investigation?
How would anyone find that out? You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Although, if you go to the Stop Baptist Predators site, you will find a number of cases where they just moved on and no one said or did anything. But, when there are 33,000 plus "other denominations", how would one find out what they did? Like your church, if you kicked someone out for something, would that make national news headlines?

Really barry, use some common sense instead of just knee jerk anti-Catholic rhetoric.
servant

Mérida, Mexico

#82550 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you were the one who said that he wasn't a hebrew.
.

Show me were I said that. You love to put words in my mouth. Anyway, I was talking about the time period and culture from which Abraham came, before he went to Hebron.

.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>
.. what was it because hebrews didn't exist or something like that.
.

.

No, but some of the descendants of Heber (Abraham's uncle)--(Genesis 11 = Luke 3:35), which later through Ashur became known as the Heberite clan (Numbers 26), were living in the land at this time. Now, since you and I both know that Asher wasn't born before Abraham went to Hebron (Genesis 13) should tell you that Abraham and his tribe could not be named Heberites when they came into the land of Hebron, but were named Hebrews after his uncle Heber, starting with Abraham (Genesis 14:13). And since there were no other people called Hebrews before Abraham went to Hebron, should also tell you that everyone before Abraham was considered a Gentile in the surrounding nations. In other words Judaism was never a religion of a particular race of people. Judaism is a belief. A belief in one God, who we now call the God of Israel. This belief in one God is what seperated Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the Israelites from the Pagans, who worshiped many gods in the surrounding Gentile nations.

.

Here's a question: Who do you think was called the first Hebrew? Abraham (Genesis 14:13) or the descendants of Ashur and Levi (Abraham's great grandsons) who named their clans after their ancestor Heber (Numbers 26)?

.
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82551 Aug 30, 2012
Nijoni wrote:
<quoted text>
Great deflection. ITB?
barry made the point above. Since this is as dumb as a Rock, you would appear to be ITB....
get delivered whoever you are....
No Church can compete with the crimes of the Babylonian Harlot.
I'm not MrsMurphy unless I quickly relocated to IL between posts, but, what MM posted proves that abuse is NOT just a CC problem. You anti-Catholics are too blinded by hate to get that....

Denial is what allows these things to happen in the first place. So you are as guilty as anyone who knows it's happening and ignores it. You hide your head to the fact that it is happening everywhere, just because you hate the CC. If anyone needs to be delivered, it's you.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#82552 Aug 30, 2012
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>the main thing(in a nut shell) was under old law to do the sacrifices as prescribed and had their sins rolled forward each year. the same principal for OT and NT is to receive ones reward they had to "follow the rules". Just like Christ told his disciples IF they abide in his words they are his disicples indeed. Notice the condition of "IF"
no, the main thing is you implied, said that they were saved retroactively if they had done what they were supposed to. but the b Bible is very clear thatbthey were saved by faith just as we are. Christ declared Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(saved) long before he died on the cross.
and you tried to use hebrews 9.12 to prove your point. i just simply asked where was the doing in hebrews 9.12?
you do know that their salvation in the OT was not in the sacrifices? you do now that Lot was declared righteous but did not have any of the "IFs" that you imply were necessary.

“Land of Entrapment”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#82553 Aug 30, 2012
ITB wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, you can't take one sentence from a paragraph and decide that's all the paragraph states. That's lying about what the whole story was about. But, since that is another common fundie trait, I guess we couldn't expect anything different from someone like you.
Still don't know the difference between past and present...that song by Jethro Tull...Living in the Past just popped into my head. Great song! Now I have the urge to go listen to some Jethro Tull.
Firstly, that is not a sentence. It is a summation.
Now, as I said, even if the 13 million 100 thousand sites were posted, you would still be blind to the truth.
How much have those blinders cost you? One soul.
You are one of the most disgusting things on this planet, the way you cow and cover for these Pedo's. Do you have a jail ministry as well?
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82554 Aug 30, 2012
MRSMURPHY wrote:
<quoted text>So you are just Catholic bashing? I see it as a sad commentary on all religious sects. If you cannot trust the religious then who do you turn too? When I finger point, I include all, I do not pick and choose who to attack.
Their hatred of the CC, does not allow them to be open to anything but their hatred of the CC and any chance they can get to bash the CC.

They will deny, and ignore, any abuse going on elsewhere, because all their focus is on bashing the CC.

It is a sad commentary on those who believe they are "God's chosen", that they are so full of hate for another Christian denomination, that they will go to any length to condemn.

How sad that this is what they believe God's message is all about.
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82555 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you imagine? how about some facts.
Sure, when you give your facts proving abuse does not happen in other churches and acknowledge the facts already given...that this is not only a CC problem.

“Land of Entrapment”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#82556 Aug 30, 2012
ITB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not MrsMurphy unless I quickly relocated to IL between posts, but, what MM posted proves that abuse is NOT just a CC problem. You anti-Catholics are too blinded by hate to get that....
Denial is what allows these things to happen in the first place. So you are as guilty as anyone who knows it's happening and ignores it. You hide your head to the fact that it is happening everywhere, just because you hate the CC. If anyone needs to be delivered, it's you.
LOL as the location changes constantly when one uses a different name. I tried it myself a year ago as Rico the LaRazist does this all the time. To try and make it look as if he has any support. SOund familiar, Ring any bells??? Has something to do with wireless. But if you think that covers for you, whatever. Hardly the point.
What the point was, was covering these crimes, and moving Priests around. Present or past, many sites were published. Non of the other churches are up for this abomination.
True to your syle though, now you will twist and turn to attempt some Vicotry. You have never- NO NEVER- ONCE Proven a thing. Except HOW LOW you Crawl for YOUR CUlt of the Wh-ore.

Now- tuck tail and hide for a bit! Again, your style.
You are transparent no matter what names you post under.

The funny thing is you think yourself so clever!!
Just as God sees thru your smoke and mirror act, he gives his Followers discernment. A word you know NOT.
You, your clone, another RCC clone, matters not. Lies are still LIes.

“Land of Entrapment”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#82557 Aug 30, 2012
ITB wrote:
<quoted text>
Their hatred of the CC, does not allow them to be open to anything but their hatred of the CC and any chance they can get to bash the CC.
They will deny, and ignore, any abuse going on elsewhere, because all their focus is on bashing the CC.
It is a sad commentary on those who believe they are "God's chosen", that they are so full of hate for another Christian denomination, that they will go to any length to condemn.
How sad that this is what they believe God's message is all about.
How sad logic totally evades your whiny little butt.
Thr RCC is one of the Largest Cults in the WOrld. With an OUTstanding Historical record of Genocides and Rapes. They have the Largest Propaganda Machine in the World! AS you attest to. Of course those of us who see thru this would focus on the Wh_ore of Babylon. Perhaps there is still time for some to be called out.
But then, salvation and the concept there of, completely evades your religious mind.
You contine to get caught in your traps and lies. Hillarious really..with one claiming an inordinante "IQ" as you do....
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82558 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>now see you claim it was hidden all over. and i know from experience that it was never hidden in our church nor in the churches that we fellowship with.
what was the # over 3,000 law suites against the CC? i wonder if you could find sixty against all other churches combined that would show that there was a cover-up.
If it was hidden, how would you know?

If something was done internally by your church, or some other small church, would it have made national headlines? Would you find numerous articles posted online detailing what happened or what was done. Come on, get real.

You have stated over and over that you belong to a small, autonomous Independent Baptist church. I can easily say that nothing of this sort of thing occurred in our Boy Scout pack, nor in our troop. That's easy when you have a handful of members, as opposed to very large numbers, like the whole Boy Scout organization. See the difference?

Again barry, common sense...this can not be compared equally. That would be impossible to do.

BTW-You have been shown statistics and articles stating that the CC is not alone in this problem, nor worse than the Protestant churches.
servant

Mérida, Mexico

#82559 Aug 30, 2012
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Dispensation is another word for "age". Christ referred to the "age" more than once.
.

.

Show me in scripture were Christ used the word "age" to describe a period of time called the "Christian disspensation" where Gentiles (non-Jews) would be a light of revelation ( Luke 2:32 )for the tribes of Jacob (Isaiah 49:6) and where Gentiles would be teaching Jews about salvation(John 4:22) and grafting them into Israel (Romans 11) or the one flock (John 10:16). Show me.

.

.

If anything the first "age" you are refering to was a period of time where Jesus prediction of the temple being thrown down ( ex. Matthew 24:1-2 ) and the violent taking the kindom by force ( Matthew 11:12 ) happened when in 70 A.D. the Roman Empire (Gentiles) trampled on the Holy City (Revelation 11). This would also not be the last "age" or "time" or ("ends" as Paul liked to call them) of Jacob's (Israel's) troubles. If you're interested I can also show proof of their being many ends.

.

.

.
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>

If you want to read a contrast to the last "age" and this one read Heb 1:1-2, that is just 1 example, there are others. The Patriarchal age when it ran its course, gave way to the Jewish age and when that ran its course we now have christian age , which is the last age. If you read book of Hebrews that will answer most of your questions.Paul did some more writings on that also. Eph and Col has writings about the change also.
.

.

And yes, we know that when Christ came the wall of hostility was torn down between Jews and Gentiles so that the two would become one new people (John 10:16)=(Romans 11:11-) but we also know that it would be the Gentiles who would put the wall back up between the two starting with the Roman Gentile Empire trampling on the Holy City in 70 A.D. Gentiles eventually became the ones in control of Jesus’ Church. They learned how to put a spin on the scriptures to use them to prove their teachings (doctrines) and have learned how to keep the remnant of Jews (Romans 11) from becoming effective at their anointed jobs of teaching the Jewish scriptures (John 4:22).The Christian Churches that exist today are the offspring of the Roman Church (Mother in scarlet).

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christia...

.

It is in the hands of Gentiles ( Revelation 11:2 ) not Jews! Rome has stolen the original church by force, exactly as Jesus Himself predicted 2000 years ago ( MATTHEW 11:12).

.

.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#82560 Aug 30, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Show me were I said that. You love to put words in my mouth. Anyway, I was talking about the time period and culture from which Abraham came, before he went to Hebron.
.
<quoted text>
.
.
No, but some of the descendants of Heber (Abraham's uncle)--(Genesis 11 = Luke 3:35), which later through Ashur became known as the Heberite clan (Numbers 26), were living in the land at this time. Now, since you and I both know that Asher wasn't born before Abraham went to Hebron (Genesis 13) should tell you that Abraham and his tribe could not be named Heberites when they came into the land of Hebron, but were named Hebrews after his uncle Heber, starting with Abraham (Genesis 14:13). And since there were no other people called Hebrews before Abraham went to Hebron, should also tell you that everyone before Abraham was considered a Gentile in the surrounding nations. In other words Judaism was never a religion of a particular race of people. Judaism is a belief. A belief in one God, who we now call the God of Israel. This belief in one God is what seperated Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the Israelites from the Pagans, who worshiped many gods in the surrounding Gentile nations.
.
Here's a question: Who do you think was called the first Hebrew? Abraham (Genesis 14:13) or the descendants of Ashur and Levi (Abraham's great grandsons) who named their clans after their ancestor Heber (Numbers 26)?
.
these are your words from post 82512ñ
don't forget Abraham. Noah and Judaism’s founding father Abraham were born Gentiles, or non-Jews because in that time there were no Jews, Israelites,or Hebrews on earth, yet.
that is what you said.

as for your last question you are only playing games to distract from your mistake.
Abraham was called a hebrew. it was recorded as such under the direction if your teacher the Holy Spirit. you must have slept through that class.

in genesis 39 Joseph is a hebrew servant.
in genesis 43 the egyptians would not eat with the hebrews
in exodus 3 God is the God of the hebrews. all through the book of exodus the children of israel are refered to as hebrews.

so to try and suggest that it might have been a name given to the descendants of ashur and levi is just stupid.
and then to suggest that ashur and levi named their clans after abrahams great great great great grandfather is just plain ignorant. a grand son of ashur was named heber and from him come the heberites not the clans of ashur and levi (ex 26.45). i do not see any record of any such thing being related to levi.

perhaps you need to rethink your understanding of the name hebrew.
ITB

Lansdale, PA

#82561 Aug 30, 2012
barry wrote:
<quoted text>and where in any of these accounts does it say that the CC turned these fellows over to law enforcement? where does it say that they were expelled from their duties or the church before these criminal cases proceeded?
These are quite informative as well.
Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Philadelphia ...
1.1 Cover-up by cardinals Krol and Bevilacqua; 1.2 Role of Cardinal Rigali in ....
for the archdiocese, concealed the crimes of accused priests and put them in ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in ...
Roman Catholic sex abuse cases by country - Wikipedia, the free ...
In the 1990s, criminal proceedings began against members of the Christian ... by
priests of the Archdiocese of Boston, and following revelations of a cover-up by ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abus ...
Victim wins crucial decision in pedophile priest case; SNAP responds
We feel it's morally wrong for church officials to try to exploit archaic deadlines
and legal technicalities to keep clergy sex crimes covered up. Juries should be ...
www.snapnetwork.org/victim_wins_crucial_decis ...
Vatican Named in International Criminal Court Complaint - NYTimes ...
Sep 13, 2011 ... Two organizations asked the International Criminal Court to investigate ... and
covering up the rape and sexual assault of children by priests.
www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world/europe/14vat ...
Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests Seeking Justice in ...
and deterring future criminal acts, exposing and preventing clergy sex crimes and
cover-ups in the Catholic Church, and holding those who commit, ignore,...
ccrjustice.org/files/ICCFAQ_FINAL.pdf
Philly priest gets 3 to 6 years in abuse case - CNN.com
Jul 24, 2012 ... Accused priest:'I was helping priests and helping victims as best I could'. Days
before the trial ... "Cover up child sex crimes and you'll go to jail.
www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/justice/pennsylvania-p ...
Police move on priests over abuse cover-up!, page 1 ... in a landmark case that
could expose the church to a new wave of criminal prosecution.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread866592/pg1
Obviously, they were "turned over" to law enforcement, otherwise, how would they be in court?

FYI-You are not guilty in the eyes of the law until you are found guilty. If accusations were made, until they are verified as true, then why would the CC have expelled them? If you read the whole article, you'd see that the priests in the Philly case were either suspended or removed to administrative duty or no longer active to begin with. They do have the right to trial, just like any one else. Many accusations are made that are not true and need to be investigated before a person is automatically considered guilty and "expelled" from their place of employment. I can't believe you don't know that.

BTW-Cardinal Krol died in 1996, Bevilacqua died in 2012, he had been replaced in 2003 by Rigaldi. Rigaldi retired at the age of 76 earlier in 2012. He was replaced by Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Denver, 66, a Native American.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#82562 Aug 30, 2012
ITB wrote:
<quoted text>
If it was hidden, how would you know?
If something was done internally by your church, or some other small church, would it have made national headlines? Would you find numerous articles posted online detailing what happened or what was done. Come on, get real.
You have stated over and over that you belong to a small, autonomous Independent Baptist church. I can easily say that nothing of this sort of thing occurred in our Boy Scout pack, nor in our troop. That's easy when you have a handful of members, as opposed to very large numbers, like the whole Boy Scout organization. See the difference?
Again barry, common sense...this can not be compared equally. That would be impossible to do.
BTW-You have been shown statistics and articles stating that the CC is not alone in this problem, nor worse than the Protestant churches.
starting with your last comment. you are correct. the corruption and abuse of children can be found anywhere. my point is not with the corruption but how the churches handle it.

if a pastor had an affair with his secretary and it was found out he would be publicly kicked out of the church and permanently barred from the pastorite. it would be public knowledge but not necessarily in the news.

now if anyone, pastor, sunday school teacher, deacon, or any other member of the church was accused of molesting a child or raping an adult. the first call would be to the police and the second call would be to the deacons and that person would then with due process be kicked out of the church. in fact at our churches usually there is a background check done before anyone can serve in any ministry in any capacity that would involve children. i do not see where your comment about handling things internally applies to the conversation. when was the last time a congregation kicked out a priest?

i grew up in a church that numbered more than a thousand. my kids grew up in a church that was about 300. yes, we dealt with these issues and that is how they were dealt with. and yes they were in the news. yes, people went to jail.

doing things the legally and the way God calls for them to be done is not necessarily the most convenient but it is the best way to handle it

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